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Summilux
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#1561 Post by Summilux » Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:53 am

Puppy wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:32 am
Wondering whether there are numbes about Lenovo/Dell/HP/Apple sales in enterprises. Maybe it is region specific but I haven't seen any ThinkPad in big companies over here since 30 series era. Everything is HP/Dell (Windows) or MacBook.
Yep. TPs are no longer as ubiquitous as they used to be, and I think Macs have a lot to do with that. Sadly for Lenovo, copying Macs doesn't seem to yield the good results the management would have hoped for - at least on the corporate market.

I think increase in BYOD and CYOD policies, in addition to Thinkpads' decreasing attractivity, are major factors towards the switch to Apple.
Bring Your Own Device (BYOD) market size is estimated to be valued at USD 366.95 Billion by 2022, as per a new research report by Global Market Insights.

US BYOD market size was valued close to USD 30 Billion in 2014 and is anticipated to grow at a CAGR of over 15% from 2015 to 2022. Asia Pacific is predicted to be the most attractive region and it is projected to grow at a CAGR of 20,8% over the coming seven years. Declining hardware prices, increasing mobile user workforce and high smartphone penetration are the factors responsible for increasing BYOD market share across the region.
https://globenewswire.com/news-release/ ... s-Inc.html
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#1562 Post by Kilkenny » Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:12 pm

So if the leaked photos are truly the final product, this is just a T470 with a classic keyboard. It took them 2 years to do that? :roll:
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#1563 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:24 pm

I made this: Language Warning!

https://imgur.com/0inBqyV
Thinkpad4by3's Law of the Universe.

The efficiency of two screens equally sized with equal numbers if pixels are equal. The time spent by a 4:3 user complaining about 16:9 is proportional to the inefficiency working with a 16:9 display, therefore the amount of useful work extracted is equal.

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#1564 Post by Puppy » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:12 am

Kilkenny wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:12 pm
It took them 2 years to do that? :roll:
Yes :roll:
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#1565 Post by Seggybop » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:37 am

micrex22 wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:18 am
Thinkpad4by3 wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:05 am
If 51NB can economically make custom motherboards, why can't Lenovo?
Well Lenovo would also have to provide support and warranty, among other things. So there are a few more things to consider that 51NB has the luxury of ignoring.
It should be noted that 51nb does provide a good warranty and responsive human support.

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#1566 Post by ajkula66 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:11 am

Seggybop wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:37 am

It should be noted that 51nb does provide a good warranty and responsive human support.
YMMV and then some in this respect. Speaking from personal experience here. This thread, however, is not the place to debate that particular issue.
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#1567 Post by RealBlackStuff » Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:19 am

Anyone remember this: Same Product, Different Stickers ?
A lot of people commented on it, one of them really standing out:
Kebs wrote:Should Lenovo lose its home market of highly sophisticated customers in the U.S. due to Lenovo's long hold times, ignorant sales people, shipping bungling, and disappointing product releases (T61p should have been out by now)- Lenovo will tip over, and start the medium-paced, but sure walk into mediocrity. Sure, China loves Lenovo. China can't AFFORD Lenovo. Please the high end base= continued support in your most important market.

Btw, releasing Thinkpad Reserve Edition information is ludicrous without having your flagship T61p out already. Who'd want a $5,000.00 leather laptop without the 570m? Its only upsetting those who want to buy Lenovo's best technology.

As many of the users at notebookreview.com are starting to say- "I ordered my T61 from LenoWOE but it won't ship til August 30th."

Send a message, somewhere, anywhere, to the VP of Thinkpads. The natives are p!ssed!
And I repeat:
Btw, releasing Thinkpad Reserve Edition information is ludicrous without having your flagship T61p out already. Who'd want a $5,000.00 leather laptop without the 570m? Its only upsetting those who want to buy Lenovo's best technology.
Btw, releasing Thinkpad Retro information is ludicrous without having your flagship [T480p?] out already. Who'd want a $5,000.00 Retro laptop without the Coffee Lake CPU? Its only upsetting those who want to buy Lenovo's best technology.

And this info was released 10 years ago!
Shows you (again) that Lenono does not pay a blind bit of attention...

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#1568 Post by Summilux » Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:37 am

RealBlackStuff wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:19 am
Anyone remember this: Same Product, Different Stickers ?
Interesting link.
Matthew Kohut wrote: In all cases, there is no change in quality (or anything else for that matter) no matter which badge it may have on the front. The products are made on the same manufacturing lines by the same people and come loaded with the same software. The only difference is which sticker gets put on the front.
That's cool and all, but Matthew somehow forgot to mention one small detail : the change in top managers. But surely such a detail could have been overlooked, right, because all managers are similarly adept anyway and totally wouldn't change the course the company would eventually be taking ? :roll:
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#1569 Post by Summilux » Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:18 am

And some more quotes :
Mike wrote: Lenovo had a very simple task to do: Change NOTHING. Update hardware, get better screens, but change NOTHING ELSE.
8)
Mike wrote:Thinkpads are a niche market. It's where you go when you are sick of the consumer-oriented products and want something solid and enjoyable. Lenovo does not understand this at all it seems.
8) 8)
Christian wrote:First time here. Must say I'm impressed with Lenovo's business honesty and the way they use the customers actively for research through these blogs.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Kyocera wrote:everyone knew sooner or later the IBM logo would be gone, that is not the point, the thinkpad is still carrying on the tradition of the high end laptop, regardless.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#1570 Post by Summilux » Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:51 am

Looks like yet another 3:2 device will be available on the market, Google's Pixelbook aka Chromebook Pixel v3 :

Image

Now here's an interesting quote about the original Pixel :
"The goal was to push the boundary and build something premium," Sundar Pichai, the senior vice president of engineering in charge of Chrome and the Google Apps online services, said in an interview. Google engineers set out on the "labor of love" project two years ago, asking themselves, "What could we do if we really wanted to design the best computer possible at the best price possible?"
https://www.cnet.com/news/googles-chrom ... ambitions/

This could mean that, back in 2013, 3:2 square-ish displays were already seen by laptop makers as being both fitting for a would-be high quality line of laptops, and economically feasible too.

How come Lenovo couldn't reach the same conclusion two years later in 2015 ?
Could it be that the Chromebook Pixel was an expensive commercial failure after all ?

Well, this very same year, the Chromebook Pixel 2 went on sale. Maybe it was economically viable after all. The stock eventually sold out in mid-2016, which made news because Google officially said it wouldn't restock it.

And now a third version is about to be announced at the beginning of next month. Commercial failure much ?
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#1571 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:58 am

The Pixel isnt failing over its LCD. The darn OS sucks. Just like Windows RT, ChromeOS cant benefit from anything more than an ATOM processor. If it was a Windows machine, I bet it would be a flying success.
Thinkpad4by3's Law of the Universe.

The efficiency of two screens equally sized with equal numbers if pixels are equal. The time spent by a 4:3 user complaining about 16:9 is proportional to the inefficiency working with a 16:9 display, therefore the amount of useful work extracted is equal.

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#1572 Post by Summilux » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:08 am

Thinkpad4by3 wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:58 am
The Pixel isnt failing over its LCD. The darn OS sucks. Just like Windows RT, ChromeOS cant benefit from anything more than an ATOM processor. If it was a Windows machine, I bet it would be a flying success.
Well of course Chrome OS is the elephant in the room :D I was focused on the hardware aspect.

Then again it looks like one can run Linux on the Chromebooks : https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/06 ... hromebook/
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#1573 Post by Ibthink » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:54 am

Of course the Pixel 1 & 2 were commercial failures. But these products don´t have to be successful in the sense that they make money. They are made to showcase Chrome OS (and prove that it can be paired with a high-end device). The Surface Laptop is similiar in that its made to showcase Windows 10 S, though of course in this case, it really is a real PC where you can install Linux or full Windows 10 Pro.
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#1574 Post by 600X » Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:11 pm

I used to run Linux natively on a Chromebook Pixel and it was the best mobile computing experience I ever had. Sadly, Ivy-Bridge does show its age these days and the 2015 Pixel is still ludicrously expensive. Nevertheless, with Android apps, that Samsung Chromebook Pro is looking like a mighty fine alternative for some lighter tasks. Might consider picking it up in the near future.
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#1575 Post by RealBlackStuff » Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:24 pm

Not sure if this has already been mentioned (can't possibly remember so many pages) but how about this?
a Thinkpad, with 4:3 IPS screen, an Intel Core i7-7700HQ CPU, 32GB-DDR4 and a 256GB PCIe-SSD (2400MB/s read and 1300MB/s write). It is brand new. It is also possible to order a mainboard with a 7300HQ CPU.
The secret?
T70
Who needs a Retro?

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#1576 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:44 pm

RealBlackStuff wrote:Not sure if this has already been mentioned (can't possibly remember so many pages) but how about this?
a Thinkpad, with 4:3 IPS screen, an Intel Core i7-7700HQ CPU, 32GB-DDR4 and a 256GB PCIe-SSD (2400MB/s read and 1300MB/s write). It is brand new. It is also possible to order a mainboard with a 7300HQ CPU.
The secret?
T70
Who needs a Retro?
1 problem: I need you to find 10,000 T60p 15" cases in good condition for a suitable swap for everyone who wanrs a RETRO.

When you got that, were good :) .
Thinkpad4by3's Law of the Universe.

The efficiency of two screens equally sized with equal numbers if pixels are equal. The time spent by a 4:3 user complaining about 16:9 is proportional to the inefficiency working with a 16:9 display, therefore the amount of useful work extracted is equal.

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#1577 Post by Summilux » Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:05 pm

Ibthink wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:54 am
Of course the Pixel 1 & 2 were commercial failures. But these products don´t have to be successful in the sense that they make money. They are made to showcase Chrome OS (and prove that it can be paired with a high-end device). The Surface Laptop is similiar in that its made to showcase Windows 10 S, though of course in this case, it really is a real PC where you can install Linux or full Windows 10 Pro.
They sold out and I doubt Google sold them at a loss, I wouldn't call this a commercial failure. Surely Lenovo could be inspired by Google and Microsoft, making some Thinkpads profitable showcases.
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#1578 Post by ansible212 » Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:44 pm

X1C 5th Gen : WQHD : i7-7500U : 16GB : 1TB Samsung 970 Pro : ThinkPad Thunderbolt 3 Dock : ThinkVision P32u-10

X220 : Premium HD : i7-2640M : 8GB : 256GB Samsung 850 Pro : Mini Dock Series 3 with USB 3.0

X200s : WXGA : C2D SL9600 : 4GB : 256GB Samsung 830 : Ultrabase

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#1579 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:45 pm

ansible212 wrote:More details have been leaked:

https://gizmodo.com/details-about-lenov ... 1818668084
Is it safe go declare a state of emergency now?
Thinkpad4by3's Law of the Universe.

The efficiency of two screens equally sized with equal numbers if pixels are equal. The time spent by a 4:3 user complaining about 16:9 is proportional to the inefficiency working with a 16:9 display, therefore the amount of useful work extracted is equal.

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#1580 Post by ansible212 » Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:47 pm

Original post linked to by Gizmodo has many additional photos:

http://winfuture.de/news,99749.html
X1C 5th Gen : WQHD : i7-7500U : 16GB : 1TB Samsung 970 Pro : ThinkPad Thunderbolt 3 Dock : ThinkVision P32u-10

X220 : Premium HD : i7-2640M : 8GB : 256GB Samsung 850 Pro : Mini Dock Series 3 with USB 3.0

X200s : WXGA : C2D SL9600 : 4GB : 256GB Samsung 830 : Ultrabase

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#1581 Post by oeuvre » Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:10 pm

Literally a T470 with different badges and pre-chiclet keyboard. Same weight, dimensions, hardware, ports, etc. Disappointed.

Wonder if that touchscreen is optional, hopefully you can just get non-touch matte.
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#1582 Post by hengster » Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:25 am

2 years of surveys, anticipation and now disappointment.
putting back the right keyboard into the wrong screen aspect ratio, processor, gpu.
10 years since Lenovo took over, and it has been downhill with a slight hump now.
goodbye ThinkPad.
My Thinking Pads
Think: Lenovo ThinkPad X1C5G, 1920x1080 IPS, i7-7500U, 16GB
Drink: Lenovo ThinkPad X250, 1920x1080 IPS, i7-5600U, 16GB
Blink: Lenovo ThinkPad T450s, 1920x1080 IPS, i5-5200U, 12GB
Gone: T60-X61-X200s-X201s-X220-X230-T420-T420s-T430s-X240-X1C3G-X260-T460s

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#1583 Post by dr_st » Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:16 am

Seems fine. Hopefully the touchscreen is optional, hopefully there will be a QHD option for those who want it (although I myself may still prefer FHD), and hopefully there will be configurations with Intel GPU and not just an nVidia one.

Ports are good, except I'd rather have a DP++ than an HDMI, since it goes both ways, but a TBT Type-C port should cover that with an adapter, no?
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#1584 Post by lophiomys » Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:23 am

I am looking foward to see the Docking Station!
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#1585 Post by exTPfan » Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:10 am

Nice toy, but the screen is simply too small for serious work --- smaller than a "classic" 13.3 inch screen (83.75in^2 and 6.86in tall versus 84.91in^2 and 7.98in). Also, we don't know if the keyboard has the "classic" quality.

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#1586 Post by dr_st » Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:11 am

lophiomys wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:23 am
I am looking foward to see the Docking Station!
Should be compatible with exactly the same docks as the T470.
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#1587 Post by dr_st » Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:15 am

exTPfan wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:10 am
Nice toy, but the screen is simply too small for serious work --- smaller than a "classic" 13.3 inch screen (83.75in^2 and 6.86in tall versus 84.91in^2 and 7.98in).
Some people managed to do a lot of serious work even on a 12". And XGA resolution, God forbid. Some people cannot do with anything smaller than a 17"... Go figure.
14" strikes a good balance between size, weight and portability. 14" FHD strikes a good balance between resolution and readability.
My T430s has this resolution, and I not once felt limited by it (which is something that cannot be said about the X220 HD or T410 WXGA+ resolutions).
With that said, for sure some folks would want a higher resolution, and some folks would wish it was 15-16" even if heavier, and the screen ratio battle will never end.
exTPfan wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:10 am
Also, we don't know if the keyboard has the "classic" quality.
That's the key test (no pun intended), IMO. Given how even the island keyboard on new Thinkpads presents rather good quality/rigidity, I'm optimistic, but for sure this is something to be aware of - the mechanism of the new keyboard is new, it could not just inherit the old one without changes, and keys are said to have less travel depth.
We will only know how it works in practice after the systems start shipping...
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#1588 Post by RealBlackStuff » Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:34 am

The most obvious things about that keyboard are the classic key-shape and the (nearly) classic layout.
But I bet that otherwise it's still a chicklet keyboard with built-in backlight.

Even though I was a programmer in my working days, I never managed to type with more than 2 fingers...
I guess that's because Assembler is such a compact language with only few words. :lol:

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#1589 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:36 am

RealBlackStuff wrote:The most obvious things about that keyboard are the classic key-shape and the (nearly) classic layout.
But I bet that otherwise it's still a chicklet keyboard with built-in backlight.

Even though I was a programmer in my working days, I never managed to type with more than 2 fingers...
I guess that's because Assembler is such a compact language with only few words. Image
Hey, you practically programmed in machine code. That only requires two fingers, one and zero.
Thinkpad4by3's Law of the Universe.

The efficiency of two screens equally sized with equal numbers if pixels are equal. The time spent by a 4:3 user complaining about 16:9 is proportional to the inefficiency working with a 16:9 display, therefore the amount of useful work extracted is equal.

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#1590 Post by Ibthink » Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:32 pm

RealBlackStuff wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:34 am
The most obvious things about that keyboard are the classic key-shape and the (nearly) classic layout.
But I bet that otherwise it's still a chicklet keyboard with built-in backlight.
If its a classic key shape, it can´t be a Chiclet keyboard. The key mechanisms are the same anyways, so the key shape is the major differentiator between the two styles.
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