Thinkpads Forum

I already have given up hope for any decent ThinkPad that would meet our expectations.
If they are dawdling this long already now, a lot more people will have lost interest by the time they finally take the finger out...

taller screen (even 16:10 although i prefer 3:2) might be the most delicate matters.

The rest, i think David can impose with sells data. Going 16:10 for a large part of the line might be a tougher call (more expansive and non standard). Luckily, Apple is 16:10 too, and this might help the decision...

I too would like to see a taller screen like that of my T500.

What is the obsession with thinness and being light weight? I want a sturdy, well-built laptop and if that equates to more weight and being a little fatter, so be it.

Six pounds is not like carrying around lead weights. Suck it up and put on your Big Boy pants.

16:10 vs 16:9 isn't about the weight anyway. If it was all about weight, 14" would be more prevalent than 15.6", and it's not.

RealBlackStuff wrote:I already have given up hope for any decent ThinkPad that would meet our expectations.
If they are dawdling this long already now, a lot more people will have lost interest by the time they finally take the finger out...

Not surprised its taken so long, if they have been presented with evidence 5 years of so called corporate design has got them no where, then blood will flow.

It's been something like two months since we've last got an update about the project. I'm eager to get disappointed news but this timeframe doesn't surprise me. Two months is a short amount of time to assemble a comprehensive proposal; Lenovo is no start-up. It could take another month or two before we hear back from D. Hill.

Don't get your hopes up. If they will announce an actual classic thinkpad, I'm pretty sure it is not going to be what you've been waiting for.

Well, I don't think anyone expects an IBM-era Thinkpad. Getting a classic keyboard would already be a giant innovation by today's Lenovo standards.

If Lenovo doesn't produce a classic Thinkpad, perhaps someone else will:

https://shop.libiquity.com/product/taurinus-x200

I'm holding off on all laptop-related purchases until they finally reveal this. I really want to upgrade from my X220T, to a 14" or 15" laptop. And as long as I have my Thinkpad 10 for digitizing maths, I won't be shopping for any hybrids. Great keyboard and screen in a clamshell form factor or bust.

Yeah!

Time is passing by and no update....they should give some informations....whatever the state of play may be....

there are many interested in....i guess....

Greets,

PANdoRA

This is just my guess, but I think we won´t hear anything until January - CES maybe would be a good time for Lenovo to present something.

I think its unlikely that Lenovo will reveal something until they have something final to present.

And why would they not reveal anything? Their marketing found out it's a huge untapped market and they don't want to give anyone else the idea to check it out?

Do we really "think" everyone at Lenovo are as sympathetic to this project as David appears to be? Maybe I am just too cynical.

They say nothing, because they cancelled the project and do not want to piss the fans off

shawross wrote:Do we really "think" everyone at Lenovo are as sympathetic to this project as David appears to be? Maybe I am just too cynical.

This is the core question. The David's idea is going against Lenovo plans to sell a lot of cheap junk in high volumes (their low-end series are worse quality than Acer these days) so I expect almost no one at Lenovo is interested in supporting the project

Puppy wrote:This is the core question. The David's idea is going against Lenovo plans to sell a lot of cheap junk in high volumes (their low-end series are worse quality than Acer these days) so I expect almost no one at Lenovo is interested in supporting the project

While i agree to some degree, the mere fact David was able to get the polls etc out suggest that things are not all well in Camelot & Lenovo are at a loss.

kony wrote:They say nothing, because they cancelled the project

Uhm....no.

Dekks wrote:While i agree to some degree, the mere fact David was able to get the polls etc out suggest that things are not all well in Camelot & Lenovo are at a loss.

Last time I checked Lenovos quarterly report, they were making money with PCs.

Ibthink wrote: Last time I checked Lenovos quarterly report, they were making money with PCs.

Dekks wrote:Not surprised its taken so long, if they have been presented with evidence 5 years of so called corporate design has got them no where, then blood will flow.

Blood will not flow until they start using losing revenue. Unfortunately, that won't happen because customers have no alternative to a ThinkPad in terms of that class of laptop.

Think about it, there's almost no other laptop to choose from that:

- Is damage resistant
- Has a trackpoint
- Has been designed to get out of you way as much as possible when doing intensive work by:
+ Makes it less disruptive when going between laptop and desktop.
+ Makes it easier to navigate to and between the delete, home and end keys which for me improves my typing speed dramatically.
+ Having a sloped edge so that my wrist does not feel like its committing suicide when I am at the computer for a long time.
+ Having a trackpad that is not too big so your hand doesn't accidentally move the mouse when using the keyboard.

It's not the same when you want to buy small, portable and affordable laptops where you can choose between the Acer aspire one and Asus Eee PC or if you want to buy laptops that looks good and "fashionable" in which case the Acer S7 and MacBook are some of the available choices.

As long as Lenovo stays slightly closer to the original design of the classic ThinkPad compared to other laptops, they will still have customers no matter how much they mutilate the design. The xx40s where an exception this because making the trackpoint buttons into a touch interface actually made the laptop harder to use as a hold compared to other contemporary laptops so people started switching to other laptops. That is why they brought back the trackpoint buttons in the xx50. The same cannot be said for the keyboard because despite being worst then the 7-row keyboard, it is still the least horrible alternative compared to certain keyboard and plus, it’s still spill resistant. Other reasons why Lenovo will never bring back the 7-row keyboard it's slightly more complicated to build, the new keyboard looks a little more like the Mac's keyboard which for some screwed up reason is today’s standard of “advancement” even though it’s really not and more importantly switching back to the 7-row keyboard could hurt the ego of the people who made the decision to the new layout because the action would reinforce the opinion that their decision was bad.

kony wrote: They say nothing, because they cancelled the project and do not want to piss the fans off

From Lenovo’s recent attitude to customers, I won’t be surprise if the purpose of that blog post and survey is to be a distraction so that Lenovo can just hold off criticism long enough for the issue to be hopefully forgotten.

Sorry, haven't been back for a while to update you guys on the project. As far as i know, Lenovo is not abandoning the project. Three of the VP in the PC/ThinkPad business unit recently went to China and Japan (usually they don't go overseas together), and i know one of them was presenting to the CEO about Retro ThinkPad.

Don't worry ladies and gents, i think Lenovo will be stupid to abandon the project now. This project will reinvigorate the ThinkPad brand for Lenovo, which is important given how unprofitable PC business is right now.

I will try to find out more, and will report back with any info. Currently, i am back using my ThinkPad X220 because of that keyboard, and i am looking at the FHD upgrade so that it will last me till the Retro ThinkPad comes out.

Puppy wrote:This is the core question. The David's idea is going against Lenovo plans to sell a lot of cheap junk in high volumes (their low-end series are worse quality than Acer these days) so I expect almost no one at Lenovo is interested in supporting the project

Do not confuse the management with the average workers/designers. I expect a majority of people in Yamato to welcome the project.

lead_org wrote:Sorry, haven't been back for a while to update you guys on the project. As far as i know, Lenovo is not abandoning the project. Three of the VP in the PC/ThinkPad business unit recently went to China and Japan (usually they don't go overseas together), and i know one of them was presenting to the CEO about Retro ThinkPad.

Don't worry ladies and gents, i think Lenovo will be stupid to abandon the project now. This project will reinvigorate the ThinkPad brand for Lenovo, which is important given how unprofitable PC business is right now.

I will try to find out more, and will report back with any info. Currently, i am back using my ThinkPad X220 because of that keyboard, and i am looking at the FHD upgrade so that it will last me till the Retro ThinkPad comes out.

Thanks for the heads-up, Lead.

Ibthink wrote:Last time I checked Lenovos quarterly report, they were making money with PCs.

But PC margins are shrinking + they have massive inventory stocks stationary in the channel + combined with losing badly in non PC area.

Who knows what the future holds.

Thanks lead for the update, always nice to read your comments.

About screen, have you guys had time to read about the new ms surface book? 3000x2000 pixels for a perfect 3:2 ratio. For me personally that would be perfect in a X220 inspired thinkpad.

Edit: oh yeah, Ms is pretty proud about the key stroke.. Look sharp Lenovo...

Lead: I have a suggestion for the project, if you could be able to pass it on to the leading forces of this project. I have found the trackpoint buttons of the pre-410/510 generation of ThinkPads, i.e. that of 6x/x00 ThinkPads, to be far superior to that of the later ones. Given that a 14 inch 16:10 ratio display seems to have prevailed, perhaps a T400 remake would be the best key word for the future development of the project?

M$ just annonced the surface book.
3:2
3000*2000
13.5".

Sounds pretty nice! hope they will consider it!

The Surface Book is my new backup "next purchase", taking the spot of a rMBP. Amazing what one small, silly thing like aspect ratio can mean to a customer. Main reason a retro Thinkpad would win out is because of the keyboard and trackpoint. There goes those small, silly things again that influence my purchase decisions...

If Lenovo can take what is essentially market research from those polls and revamp their lineup, that would provide a great opportunity to turn things around.

Right now, if somebody asks you to recommend a laptop and you want to say ThinkPad, it's impossible. You expect them to go to their crappy site and pick between so many series? And all the non-thinkpad Lenovo stuff? They need the T and the X. It's 2015, we don't need to partition off the W series from the T series - the T series should just be configurable to reach W series specs. So much crap spread out everywhere, no wonder people would want to leave the site rather than wade through all the options. Options should be nested as a hierarchy.

Would be great to just see one new ThinkPad X series, and one (maybe two) ThinkPad T series, and throw so many minor variants out the window. It is all just wishful thinking, though...

With that in mind, if anyone asks for a laptop recommendation, the Surface Book will probably be my go-to at this point.

Bibin wrote:Right now, if somebody asks you to recommend a laptop and you want to say ThinkPad, it's impossible.

Don't forget the Edge (now E) series that makes it even more complicated. On the other hand most of Lenovo profit is generated by the IdeaPad junk series anyway.

I am also asking myself whether I need a single laptop (that can be used for work with internal keyboard or docked) anymore ? Instead of a docked laptop I can use small microtower desktop PC that beats any laptop by power, expansion options and price. As a mobile solution I can use these 2in1 devices like Surface or Lenovo Miix 700 with better keyboard attached that also acts as a tablet device for pure content comsuption.

IOW I consider the Retro project (and traditional laptops in general) dead if there is no new blog post by the end of the year.

It's been an awfully long time without an update... I'm starting to think maybe they've lost interest in producing a real ThinkPad. Which would be consistent with Lenovo's "can't do" attitude...

Hardware development takes its time. Wait for CES 2016.

https://twitter.com/lead_org/status/651188617784659970