Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

[murak]

Now I know the "retro" thinkpad launch might be some time away but If Lenovo is planning for a 2016 release these CPUs would be my personal choice:

Core i7-6970HQ (8M cache, 4 Cores, 8 Threads, 2.80 GHz, 14nm) - $623
Core i7-6870HQ (8M cache, 4 Cores, 8 Threads, 2.70 GHz, 14nm) - $434
Core i7-6770HQ (6M cache, 4 Cores, 8 Threads, 2.60 GHz, 14nm) - $378
Core i5-6350HQ (6M cache, 4 Cores, 4 Threads, 2.30 GHz, 14nm) - $306

All featuring Iris Pro 580. Never mind the thickness, I want the performance!

source: http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.ph ... count=6331

[evening_hunger]

I guess if I lived in Gotland, I'd be cold too and wanted a really hot processor:)
8 threads would be welcome, but of course there's this necessity to compromise on battery life.
Lead_org hinted Retro would get a 2-year release cycle: if that were true, we could see a 2nd gen Retro with Cannonlake Xeons:)

[bgx]

Any news? Lead_org?

Seriously looking at a thinkpad 13 (or a used T450s/X1 carbon 3rd gen) as a stop gap solution to replace my x60s, that i would resell after the TPC is out (or may be i ll wait a bit and buy it second hand).

[Jtf]

I think even with the 6-row keyboard, Lenovo could have done a better job by using this layout for the upper right corner:



At least with this, it's harder to accidentally hit the insert key when trying to use home/end. I think since Lenovo can't get the "7-row = retro" thinking out of their heads, the best they can do is make the 6-row as usable as possible.

What do you guys think?

[ajkula66]

What do you guys think?

For me personally, *any* form of 6-row layout on a ThinkPad is completely unacceptable and a dealbreaker by definition.

[lophiomys]

I think even with the 6-row keyboard, Lenovo could have done a better job
...
What do you guys think?

I know from many years of typing on the 7-row keyboard of Classic Thinkpads (even without those evil Windows Keys),
that it has proven to be good they way it is. Nobody complained about it, therefore there is no need to change it.
I would only buy a Thinkpad with a classic 7-row keyboard.

[murak]

What do you guys think?

I like your layout better than the current. If I could dream I would say that a 8-row keyboard with the 8th row being only function keys like brightness, volume, wifi etc would be nice for me.

[Jtf]

Just to be clear, I also love the 7-row keyboard but the reason I brought up a 6-row suggestion is because Lenovo is dominated by a religious cult call "less rows are the future" and anything otherwise should be ignored so I thought they can only be reasoned with if we talked about 6-rows.

[bgx]

Just to be clear, I also love the 7-row keyboard but the reason I brought up a 6-row suggestion is because Lenovo is dominated by a religious cult call "less rows are the future" and anything otherwise should be ignored so I thought they can only be reasoned with if we talked about 6-rows.

again the main reason is to put a trackpad as big as possible.
That plus the move to 16/9 which give you less space on the keybaord bezel, they need to get some space somewhere.
It also explained why they tried to remove the trackpoint button.

The last attempt was such a failure that we saw a reversal in 2015.

Also, the hopefully move to 16:10 or 3:2 on some laptop may also resurect another row on the keyboard?

[Summilux]

For me personally, *any* form of 6-row layout on a ThinkPad is completely unacceptable and a dealbreaker by definition.

Pas mieux. Any less-than-7-row design is a regression in ergonomics, and as such is unacceptable. Period.

[tiorapatea]

again the main reason is to put a trackpad as big as possible.
That plus the move to 16/9 which give you less space on the keybaord bezel, they need to get some space somewhere.
It also explained why they tried to remove the trackpoint button.

The last attempt was such a failure that we saw a reversal in 2015.

Also, the hopefully move to 16:10 or 3:2 on some laptop may also resurect another row on the keyboard?

Even though I sacrilegiously prefer to use the trackpad than that other pointer thingy, I really don't see the point of having an enormous one (trackpad ). The whole point of a trackpad is to map the screen to a really small area, which allows one to point anywhere while moving a finger only about half an inch. Anything big just gets in the way of typing.

The problem is most trackpads are garbage, and afflicted with terrible drivers. This has made people yearn for gigantic implementations in glass, in the mistaken belief that this is the only way of obtaining a decent experience. Even the T60 implementation is a bit messed up with the default driver. With the right drivers (in Linux or Windows), it is quite good.

As for keyboards, manufacturers generally can't even be bothered to make them wider on wider machines, so the chances of them adding an actual row of keys on taller laptops are rather small.

[jcvjcvjcvjcv]

Well, the 7th row is pretty much an essential part of the whole "Retro" project, so without they can really go ... themselves, without my money.

Here; just like the Donald I didn't say it, so no need to bleep it.

[Utwig]

As I added T420s into the mix and using it side by side, the 7-row classic keyboard feels outright luxurious compared to T540p. Also The T420s is considerably thinner laptop than T540p.

I guess my hunch that nothing will come out of this in 2016 was right so I was correct by buying T420s now and not waiting.

[RealBlackStuff]

They knew this already 400 years ago!

Much Ado About Nothing

[theterminator93]

There's been so little official news, good or bad, in the last 6 months - and what we last heard from David Hill has been essentially "well, we haven't committed to anything". It's always possible they will come out of nowhere and surprise us, but even I'm starting to look back and doubt that this is going to happen. I hope they prove me wrong.

[jcvjcvjcvjcv]

Well, even Nikon launched a D300s successor ; that was 6.5 years after the previous "Pro DX" body

[evening_hunger]

religious cult call "less rows are the future"

Or the past, baby.

Been there, done that...

[lophiomys]

YMMD

[Puppy]

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Microsoft- ... 679.0.html

13.5 inch 3:2, 3000x2000
Contrast: 1752:1
Screen flickering / PWM not detected
100 percent sRGB color, individually calibrated
64% AdobeRGB

It is possible, if someone (Microsoft) care.

[Summilux]

Now if only Microsoft would manufacture a classic keyboard...

[evening_hunger]

Let's hope surfacebook's (and chromebook's) example will cure some of the Lenovo decisionmakers from their selective blindness... Or better, some market statistics in the future...

[jdrou]

Now if only Microsoft would manufacture a classic keyboard...

And include Trackpoint . . .

[fatpolomanjr]

Just imagine a P50, X1 Carbon, or T460p with a 3:2 screen and classic keyboard.

[evening_hunger]

I'd say any current thinkpad with 3:2 (even if they kept chicklets) would kick a$$ for serious work.

[tiorapatea]

The Surface Book screen is a bit too small at 13.5", in my opinion. Also the keyboard layout is not very good.

I wonder what the economics of OLED are like in terms of ease of production of custom panel sizes. At least for now there doesn't seem to be huge volume anyway and prices are high, so the incremental cost of a custom panel may not be significant.

[pianowizard]

The Surface Book screen is a bit too small at 13.5", in my opinion.

An important thing that people hope to see in this "Rejoice" Thinkpad is a tall screen. Let's compare some screen heights:

13.5" 3:2 (e.g. Surface Book) = 7.49 inches

13.3" 16:10 (e.g. Thinkpad X301) = 7.05 inches

14.0" 16:9 (e.g. X1 Carbon) = 6.86 inches

15.0" 16:9 (Samsung Series 9 is the only I know of) = 7.35 inches

15.6" 16:9 (everywhere!) = 7.65 inches

I would say 13.5" 3:2 looks pretty good!

[ajkula66]

An important thing that people hope to see in this "Rejoice" Thinkpad is a tall screen.

Tall screen + tall (7-row) keyboard = too much of a tall order for Lenovo...

[tiorapatea]

The Surface Book screen is a bit too small at 13.5", in my opinion.

An important thing that people hope to see in this "Rejoice" Thinkpad is a tall screen. Let's compare some screen heights:

13.5" 3:2 (e.g. Surface Book) = 7.49 inches

13.3" 16:10 (e.g. Thinkpad X301) = 7.05 inches

14.0" 16:9 (e.g. X1 Carbon) = 6.86 inches

15.0" 16:9 (Samsung Series 9 is the only I know of) = 7.35 inches

15.6" 16:9 (everywhere!) = 7.65 inches

I would say 13.5" 3:2 looks pretty good!

It looks good only to those starved of screen height in recent years.

4:3, 15 inch, vertical inches = 9
4:3, 14 inch, vertical inches = 8.4
16:10, 15.4 , vertical inches = 8.2

3:2, 14.42, vertical inches = 8 is about as short as I could stand. 4:3 is looking better and better to me the more I think about it, but at least a large 3:2 would also be a new offering in the market ("also" because 4:3 has been effectively non-existent at normal size for so long that it would be "new" at this point).

[pianowizard]

It looks good only to those starved of screen height in recent years.

On the bright side, in recent years it has been easier to view two windows side by side.

4:3, 15 inch, vertical inches = 9
4:3, 14 inch, vertical inches = 8.4
16:10, 15.4 , vertical inches = 8.2

3:2, 14.42, vertical inches = 8 is about as short as I could stand. 4:3 is looking better and better to me the more I think about it, but at least a large 3:2 would also be a new offering in the market ("also" because 4:3 has been effectively non-existent at normal size for so long that it would be "new" at this point).

But please remember how this discussion started: we were trying to help Lenovo by finding *currently available* panels, because Lenovo probably wants to save money (as they always do!) by adopting panels that other manufacturers are already using. 15.0" 4:3 and 14.0" 4:3 are long gone. 14.42" 3:2 doesn't exist. 15.4" 16:10 is viable though, since the current 15-inch MacBook Pro is 15.4" 2880x1800. I would love to have a Wintel laptop with this exact panel. I would use it without any scaling because I can handle 220.53 DPI reasonably well, assuming the panel is very high quality. A TN panel or dim IPS panel with this resolution would be a disaster.

[tiorapatea]

On the bright side, in recent years it has been easier to view two windows side by side.

I would like to know if you actually do this, and if so what sort of applications you put side by side and at what width. It may sound like a stupid question, but I know you are very experienced and I feel like I could be missing out on productive ways of using screen width.

But please remember how this discussion started: we were trying to help Lenovo by finding *currently available* panels, because Lenovo probably wants to save money (as they always do!) by adopting panels that other manufacturers are already using. 15.0" 4:3 and 14.0" 4:3 are long gone. 14.42" 3:2 doesn't exist. 15.4" 16:10 is viable though, since the current 15-inch MacBook Pro is 15.4" 2880x1800. I would love to have a Wintel laptop with this exact panel. I would use it without any scaling because I can handle 220.53 DPI reasonably well, assuming the panel is very high quality. A TN panel or dim IPS panel with this resolution would be a disaster.

That is one way to go, but Lenovo's problem is that it is in a cut-throat war of commoditisation whereas at one time the Thinkpad was something that business was prepared to pay a significant premium for. I would have thought that the retro Thinkpad would be an opportunity to produce a differentiated product that would command such a premium, especially as there must be quite a few people, even those who have never previously used a Thinkpad, who would pay good money for a 4:3 laptop. Enormous numbers of people use a computer mainly for reading and writing, for which 4:3 is ideal.

Clearly, I don't know very much about the economics of screen manufacture, so I could be wrong. On the other hand, the panel might be adopted by other companies - if Lenovo was prepared to underwrite the development costs, perhaps it could recoup that if wider sales ensued.

I totally agree that panel quality is also very important.