Thinkpads Forum

FryPpy wrote:This things are wired together;) You can remember transition from X61 to X200 (4:3 -> 16:10) which made installation of full sized keyboard possible in Ultraportables.

Transition to 16:9 (X220) made things worse - ultranav (touchpad) buttons have been lost to accomodate 7row keyboard and touchpad.

For 12" models it most certainly has been the case, but for larger sizes it's largely irrelevant. Most likely the new laptop is not going to be a 12".

dr_st wrote:I don't care anymore if it's 4:3, 3:2, 8:5 or 16:9, as long as it's IPS, matte and with decent resolution

+ 1 and more here...

I think the modular design and serviceability are more important that the screen ratio (and the old Keyboard of course!). I do hope that there is no frigging internal battery, a decent magnesium (or whatever sturdy material) frame inside, easy to access components, no whitelist for WxAN, etc...

And no need to make it ultra thin, a real ThinkPadder can carry some weigth

Sleepy664 wrote:I miss the back/forward buttons and there is a space left for them anyway.

Also I'd like to see the ThinkPad logo in silver. And I don't like the Lenovo logo on a lid (which is something I don't like on my W520 either).

Otherwise I love it

That; must have forward / back buttons.

Desing around mouse buttons on W520 better than what's shown here.

Also must have eSata port, DP 1.2, etc.

Don't cheap out on stuff that costs pennies.

No crap screen as usually, get IPS / AFFS / whatever is decent.

No stupid PWM dimming

And fix that coilwhine

Shield audio path for once.

Must have option for protruding battery

Then fire everyone behind bad changes since *30 series.

Thanks!

FryPpy wrote:This things are wired together;) You can remember transition from X61 to X200 (4:3 -> 16:10) which made installation of full sized keyboard possible in Ultraportables.

Transition to 16:9 (X220) made things worse - ultranav (touchpad) buttons have been lost to accomodate 7row keyboard and touchpad.

What? You know that the X220 just lost about 3mm depth compared to the X200/X201? The TouchPad buttons surely didn´t go away because of these 3 mm. This was the first generation with ClickPads (partly, at least) and there were other machines that had more than enough room for buttons, and they also had ClickPads, on some models. I think it was more of a design decision (the X201 TouchPad was considered to small I think).

The difference is so small since the X220 is 12.5" instead of 12.1".

Most tablets uses 16:10 displays at high resolution, yes forgot to mention: matte and good quality, watch out people do seriously review certain notebooks that deserves it like anandtech especially on sound and LCD quality.

Cheers, thinkcollection

16:9 becomes quite unergonomic and useless below 15.6". More neck strain from shorter screen, low resolution, or high resolution with too great of pixel density start to play a big role. 16:10 is the minimum screen ratio I would accept, followed by 3:2, 4:3, and maybe even 5:4 . 16:9 can be acceptable on larger screens, but is still not ideal for real work.

Within the matter of roughly 36 hours, they've had 100K views and over 1700 comments.

The interest is definitely there - something that a few of us here have been screaming about since the *30 series - but now two things come into play:

The first one is that at some point in the game it will become obvious that they won't be able to please both the X-series crowd and the T/W users with one model. If Lenovo stays with 18mm thickness, the latter crowd will be left empty-handed and not very happy because of that. The divide between two camps - which both want the classic keyboard but don't have much else in common - is already pretty visible if one reads through the comments carefully.

The second one would go along the lines of Lenovo's *real* interest in bringing back the core ThinkPad users that were lost along the way. As interesting as the design pictured is, unless there's a LAN port along with a couple of other necessities and a full-voltage CPU as an option the folks who use their laptop for actual work - the ones that I'd refer to as 13/14" 600/T series crowd - is going to sit this one out, unless they've got money to burn.

While I have my personal gripes about the design, I'd be more than happy to see its fruition into an actual machine.

Would I buy it?

At 18mm thickness, it has nothing in store for me. I need a workstation.

Now, a 15.4" design with *real* hinges, 4 RAM slots and a WUXGA IPS panel along with a *full* CPU...you've got my full attention, Lenovo.

My $0.02 only...

theterminator93 wrote:Nearly all the comments are cheering him on, so maybe he can use all that positive social feedback to prove there IS indeed a market for such a machine...

I'd love to be wrong, but one's cheering doesn't mean much without an associated credit card number propping it up. It's a good sign, though.

Until I see a physical mockup or something then I'm not holding my breath. I love my T420 and all, but that upgrade itch is starting to get really itchy now.

Edit:

Remember how during the -61 generation the IBM logo sticker was being phased out and replaced with the silver Thinkpad logo stickers? And how the two stickers were the same size so you could stick the good ol' tricolour back on without issue?

I'd be super stoked if they brought back that old silver Thinkpad logo just so I could replace it. One can dream...

ajkula66 wrote:If Lenovo stays with 18mm thickness, the latter crowd will be left empty-handed and not very happy because of that.

Luckily no, the original concept (15" 4:3) was 18mm as well. So that is not a determining factor.

The only way to resolve the issue of dividing opinions is probably to create two separate machines.

The problem with tall screens is that a few years ago, the computer companies spent hundreds of millions persuading people that tall screens are "old-fashioned" in order to make them replace them with wide screen laptops, which the nitwits promptly did.

Now they are spending hundreds of millions persuading people that anything over 20mm thick is "old-fashioned" etc. etc.

The only people who will buy a serious laptop with a tall screen are those of us with work to do who don't care about fashions.

I don't hold out much hope.

I think it is possible to develop machines that will make both audiences happy.

Since the motherboards today doesnt have some of the components they did in the past (ie. the northbridge is integrated into the CPU), then the motherboards can be much smaller, than in the past. Furthermore a std. 2.5" drive can be replaced by an M2 SSD. The expresscard can be replaced with a thunderbolt port and so on. It is not unrealistic to reduce the size of the machines internals by 50%.

Take the X300. The removal of the HDD will make place for a second fan. Move the DIMMs to the bottom of the motherboard, then there is place for 4 dimm slots.
With two fans, there is place for a powerfull GPU and a quadcore processor. It will put the thermals to a test, but it is possible: http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Raz ... 065.0.html
By using the standard thinkpad fan design, the heatpipes can be routed over the fan, so there is a room for the battery at the top. If you want longer batterylife it will be possible to have a processor which is not a quadcore.

This way it is possible to make a very powerfull laptop, in the chassis of something close to an ultraportable. It will be a compromise for both groups, but it is the best compromise i can think off.

I have made a sketch of it here: http://imgur.com/k0AOWYT

That battery in the drawing is looking awfully small.

600X wrote:Luckily no, the original concept (15" 4:3) was 18mm as well. So that is not a determining factor.

I'm afraid that it is. There's no way that they'll be able to fit in a full-voltage CPU and cool it properly. It's simply not going to happen.

The only way to resolve the issue of dividing opinions is probably to create two separate machines.

I agree with you 10001%.

ajkula66 wrote: I'm afraid that it is. There's no way that they'll be able to fit in a full-voltage CPU and cool it properly. It's simply not going to happen.

If there is no dedicated GPU then it might be possible. But I wasn't referring to that, I was just saying that there can be a 15" 4:3 ThinkPad that is 18mm thin because the original concept was exactly that.

I think it might be a good idea to make the "modern X300" happen first. Once that is done (and if it is very successful), lenovo may be persuaded to aim even higher and offer a 15" 4:3 ThinkPad. Even 3:2 would be good enough.

I am wondering if this will be information feedback overload for David Hill. The air will be clouded and there will be a number of worms each heading in different directions.

I have heard David talk about his pride in the X300 concept. This won't please everyone but maybe it is a starting point and I think he still wonders how that concept would turn out with modern technology advances.

My 2 cents worth

600X wrote:That battery in the drawing is looking awfully small.

It should be a little smaller than the T6x batteries, abd the components are much more effective today. So i think it should be possible to archieve fairly long battery lifetime.
And the ultrabay will allow for a battery more, so if someone wants a lot of batterytime it should be possible to use a low power CPU instead, and it should be a nice ultraportable (because they are not going to be soldered on....)

QWERTY Andreas wrote:

600X wrote:That battery in the drawing is looking awfully small.

It should be a little smaller than the T6x batteries, abd the components are much more effective today. So i think it should be possible to archieve fairly long battery lifetime.
And the ultrabay will allow for a battery more, so if someone wants a lot of batterytime it should be possible to use a low power CPU instead, and it should be a nice ultraportable (because they are not going to be soldered on....)

Granted, the Ultrabay is good, but you have missed an important point. How thick is the T60? How thick is the retro? Think about that and you will understand why I said the battery is awfully small.

600X wrote:If there is no dedicated GPU then it might be possible.

Well, no dedicated GPU = not a workstation.

But I wasn't referring to that, I was just saying that there can be a 15" 4:3 ThinkPad that is 18mm thin because the original concept was exactly that.

Oh I don't doubt that Mr. Hill is perfectly capable of designing such a system. My point being, I really wouldn't want to see a return of a 4:3 ThinkPad with an ULV CPU, no LAN port and integrated graphics only...

I think it might be a good idea to make the "modern X300" happen first. Once that is done (and if it is very successful), lenovo may be persuaded to aim even higher and offer a 15" 4:3 ThinkPad. Even 3:2 would be good enough.

There's a lot of sense in what you're saying since interest in "thin & light" with a classic keyboard is definitely there. As for a workstation that could possibly follow, as much as I'm enamoured with 4:3 I'd personally grab a 3:2 *if* it checked all the other boxes, so to speak...

600X wrote:Granted, the Ultrabay is good, but you have missed an important point. How thick is the T60? How thick is the retro? Think about that and you will understand why I said the battery is awfully small.

You are rigth about that. I didnt bring that into my calculation. But i still think it will be the best -possible- solution, to make everyone happy. Two swappable batteries (ultrabay and the other) will still something. And the one on the back can stick out with bigger batteries. Furthermore it will allow the "power bride" like on the newer systems

lead_org wrote:if you look closely at the logo on the bezel of that rendering, you will notice T92.

Does it have something related to T92 Light Tank ?

Lenovo has been taking too much emphasis on thinness, at the cost of expansion, performance, battery life, and durability. Is it really that much harder to carry or store something 1.0 - 1.1in vs .7in thick? What happened to form follows function?

Also, lenovo's definition of 'retro' is a bit silly. Their definition seems to imply that they are catering to mostly older folks who are stuck in the past. In reality, these 'retro' features are not 'retro'. They are simply practical features that have been removed for no good reason. Take the keyboard layout, for example. Go to any desktop keyboard, and the layout will be the same as the 'retro' style laptop keyboard. Latches helped secure the lid, and prevented it from opening if the unit dropped onto the floor. The 'retro' clamshell lid on the T400 and older series helped prevent dust, particles, or papers from getting in between the lid and base. Indicator lights helped debug issues with network, HDD, and whether or not you forgot to plug in your laptop.

Lenovo needs to stop thinking about all of this as 'retro' but more about being practical and useful.

brchan wrote:What happened to form follows function?

Apple...

Also, lenovo's definition of 'retro' is a bit silly. Their definition seems to imply that they are catering to mostly older folks who are stuck in the past. In reality, these 'retro' features are not 'retro'. They are simply practical features that have been removed for no good reason. Take the keyboard layout, for example. Go to any desktop keyboard, and the layout will be the same as the 'retro' style laptop keyboard. Latches helped secure the lid, and prevented it from opening if the unit dropped onto the floor. The 'retro' clamshell lid on the T400 and older series helped prevent dust, particles, or papers from getting in between the lid and base. Indicator lights helped debug issues with network, HDD, and whether or not you forgot to plug in your laptop.

Lenovo needs to stop thinking about all of this as 'retro' but more about being practical and useful.

QFT.

Hopefully a large enough number of people will scream "yes, we want the CLASSIC and CONVENTIONAL ThinkPad" for some of the stuff that we've lost over the past several generations could come back...

That approach, however, would require a *major* change in Lenovo's mindset as well: stop trying to beat Apple in their own game (since you'll *never* win) and go back to what you do best...produce business-grade notebooks in boring black.

And, by all means feel free to experiment with your "house" brands. Five row keyboard, 17" 21:9 screen, touchpad the size of the palmrest, whatever. Just leave the ThinkPads the way that they were meant to be: boxy, black, boring and awesome at that. Classic keyboard. Upgradeability. Reasonable rugeddness.

I don't see any of the requirements above as being *that* difficult to fullfil. But what do I know...

I think any "Porsche Singer" like Thinkpad should take it's DNA from somewhere between 600 and T40 series in order to be called retro. Definitely needs to be 4:3 for truly being a retro.

I'd be satisfied with X300 with good screen (bad screen was the reason I have gotten an X61T at the time instead) and if it's an "X302" I'll buy it. But X300 cannot be called retro.

brchan wrote:What happened to form follows function?

It never existed. It has always been form and function.

Current hardware, classic keyboard? Do it. I won't ask how much, I will buy it. Is it too much to ask for Thunderbolt 3.0 connector on the laptop AND a real docking station also with a Thunderbolt 3.0 connector? One can dream, right? Please even if only one is operational at a time like Ethernet on the T420.

If they want to see just how much interest is there, why not run a Kickstarter and set the goal to $10M or something? Then they would see.

Well, I considered buying T450s to replace both my W700 and T61, but now looks like I need to wait a bit longer

Anyway, my opinion about current blog design:
- This IBM-colored Thinkpad logo looks silly. Old "Thinkpad T-Series" like was ok. Or ThinkPad would also look good.
- If possible, I would even consider one step older keyboard, so this from <=T400. But for me everything's better than this introduced int T430.
- Forget about ThinkLight, it's ok for nostalgic reasons, but direct key backlight works... just better.
- Would consider old-style hinges.

Forget about ThinkLight, it's ok for nostalgic reasons, but direct key backlight works... just better.

The thinklight has an advantage of lighting up the surrounding area, including the keyboard. I have found it to reduce a lot of eye strain this way, as opposed to just a backlit keyboard. Having dual thinklights, would light up even more space so that you can do notes and even reading.

Or maybe have the ThinkLight AND a backlit keyboard?!

I've really been enjoying the discussion. So far I think you guys are right on the money. The obsession with thin laptops nowadays is nothing but shallow conforming to current trends.

Does anybody know if someone at Lenovo follows this forum?

bit_twiddler wrote:Does anybody know if someone at Lenovo follows this forum?

Oh yes they do.

What difference does it make, though?