RetroThinkPad survey #2 of 4 ** the REAL one **

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#1 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 6:57 am

http://youropinioncounts.lenovo.com/s/87869/Survey2/

brchan · #2 Post by **brchan** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 7:05 am

I checked 4:3 with all status LEDs and classic keyboard. Also, why did they not include resolutions other than 16:9, but gave options for other ratios?

#3 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 7:15 am

I forgot to mention that I'd love to see that stupid Windows key DISAPPEAR!

Summilux · #4 Post by **Summilux** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:34 am

brchan wrote:I checked 4:3 with all status LEDs and classic keyboard. Also, why did they not include resolutions other than 16:9, but gave options for other ratios?

Yes, that's odd. But I think they wanted a simple common denominator, in terms of PPI, and chose today's most common resolutions.

Voted 3:2 (since Lenovo insisted that we wouldn't get 4:3 at a reasonable additional cost), 13.3", FHD, non-glossy & non-touch screen, 7 row with Internet keys, dedicated volume buttons, all LEDs except the Thinkpad logo one and suggested a Power on LED.

ajkula66 · #5 Post by **ajkula66** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 10:00 am

Retro? 4:3 or bust.

A line of laptops aimed at professionals and not context consumers, that would survive for more than one generation? Yeah, we can do 3:2 or 16:10. As long as we're offered a 7-row keyboard and W7 driver support as well.

murak · #6 Post by **murak** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 10:35 am

ajkula66 wrote:Retro? 4:3 or bust.

I agree. Thanks to the detailed surveys though , this will probably be a "user preferred " thinkpad, which is a good thing I think

I actually had a hard time deciding on the ratio but finally choose 3:2. The Cad software I use is pretty ok on wide screen and I do watch alot of movies, but I must say I got influenced by the comments, both here and on the blog.

About thinklight, is there a reason we can't have both? Both was an option on my X230. Is it about the keyboard ?

And yes I would have liked a comment field so that I could suggest dedicated buttons for screen brightness :/

Why did you guys choose the screen size you choose?

ajkula66 · #7 Post by **ajkula66** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 10:43 am

murak wrote:
Why did you guys choose the screen size you choose?

When I close my eyes and imagine a classic ThinkPad there's simply no escaping from the 4:3 aspect ratio. Other points such as the blue Enter key, touchpad, Forward/Back keys etc. can be argued upon, but this aspect of the story is non-negotiable IMO.

brchan · #8 Post by **brchan** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 10:44 am

Lenovo says 4:3 will be difficult to make, but with enough support, they should make it. If not they would very likely fall back to 3:2.

I agree about dedicated brightness buttons. The brightness sliders on my 600 and 770 are very handy. Better yet, place buttons at the front of the laptop like the toughbook cf19.

Summilux · #9 Post by **Summilux** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 10:45 am

murak wrote: About thinklight, is there a reason we can't have both? Both was an option on my X230. Is it about the keyboard ?

I can't think of any reason. Price shouldn't be an absolute priority on this project, and even with thin bezels (which I hope they implement) there should still be space to put Thinklights.

The good news is, it looks like putting a backlight under the classic keyboard (whithout compromising too much on performance) is feasible. Else they would have indicated that the backlight option is restricted to chiclets only.

murak · #10 Post by **murak** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 11:22 am

brchan wrote: I agree about dedicated brightness buttons. The brightness sliders on my 600 and 770 are very handy. Better yet, place buttons at the front of the laptop like the toughbook cf19.

Oh, I did not known about the dedicated sliders on former thinkpads! Slider or wheel would be great, but I would be totally satisfied or thrilled even, if I got dedicated buttons.

Anyway , I chose 13,3" because if the ratio would be 3:2 then there would be no wasted space beside the keyboard (right?)

#11 Post by **600X** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 12:26 pm

At 13.3" (with thin bezels), there would be no wasted space on the sides if the format is 4:3, as seen on the 600. I don't think there would much space wasted with the 3:2 format however.

I of course opted for a 4:3 display in the survey, but if I were to make a wild guess, lenovo will probably end up putting a 3:2 display in it. Which is fine by me, as long as they stay away from 16:10. 16:10 is what the regular line-up should have IMHO.

bhtooefr · #12 Post by **bhtooefr** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 12:40 pm

I chose 13.3" and 16:10 because, with a sufficiently small bezel, that gives room for a webcam and ThinkLights above, and indicator LEDs below, while maintaining an A4 form factor.

Nigellus · #13 Post by **Nigellus** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 12:55 pm

brchan wrote: I agree about dedicated brightness buttons. The brightness sliders on my 600 and 770 are very handy. Better yet, place buttons at the front of the laptop like the toughbook cf19.

I used the slider all the time on my 600E. To this day, I still look for one on my laptop to adjust the brightness.

I chose 13.3". I think laptops are getting too big lately.

I'll take a 14.1, I like my T60 just fine, but I carry my laptop around almost every day. I'd like to keep it small.

brchan · #14 Post by **brchan** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:31 pm

Lenovo should also add the little stands on the back bottom of the laptop like the 770. This lifts the screen up to reduce neck strain when looking down at it.

laowai · #15 Post by **laowai** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:41 pm

I like my 4:3, I love it in fact, but I can accept that it is gone as long as the replacement is not horrible. I'm all about resolution and physical tallness. a 16:10 would be ok, but 3:2 seems to be what's new and in fashion. Yes, shocker, that's not RETRO, however if I can get my status lights, my thinklight, my keyboard and options the way I like, along with a matte high res screen, then I can live with that. 3:2s in high res should be easier to source than 16:10s. I'm cool with spending way too much money on a thinkpad, but I'd rather see an extra $100 go towards a magnesium cover than a specialty screen which is going to be darn near impossible to replace or repair in the future.

Puppy · #16 Post by **Puppy** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:55 pm

Have you read the related blog article http://blog.lenovo.com/en/blog/retro-th ... -keyboard/ ? There is screenshot from survey #1 that shows there were 4228 responses. Way too low I guess

hhhd1 · #17 Post by **hhhd1** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 4:00 pm

Voted 3:2, After using 16:9 for a long while, anything taller would be a huge improvement.

4:3 == 16:12
3:2 == 16:10.666667
16:10

Summilux · #18 Post by **Summilux** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 4:06 pm

Puppy wrote:Have you read the related blog article http://blog.lenovo.com/en/blog/retro-th ... -keyboard/ ? There is screenshot from survey #1 that shows there were 4228 responses. Way too low I guess

On the contrary, that's a very good response rate, considering only a small percentage of Thinkpad users follows Lenovo blogs/forums/news.

ajkula66 · #19 Post by **ajkula66** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 4:58 pm

Summilux wrote:
Puppy wrote:Have you read the related blog article http://blog.lenovo.com/en/blog/retro-th ... -keyboard/ ? There is screenshot from survey #1 that shows there were 4228 responses. Way too low I guess
On the contrary, that's a very good response rate, considering only a small percentage of Thinkpad users follows Lenovo blogs/forums/news.

Hmmm...I'm with Puppy here: given the amount of views and comments that the initial blog post had, I expected way more than 4K responses...

Nigellus · #20 Post by **Nigellus** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 6:15 pm

RealBlackStuff wrote:I forgot to mention that I'd love to see that stupid Windows key DISAPPEAR!

I've always objected to the windows key on principle. In fact, the only time I've ever had a use for it is right now with Windows 8.

Why can't a Windows key be a Function option on a more useful key?

bhtooefr · #21 Post by **bhtooefr** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 6:25 pm

It's actually decently useful on Windows if you know the shortcuts, it's extremely useful on a properly-configured *nix, nearly critical (with some remapping to make it make more sense) if you're Hackintoshing, and if you don't like it, you can remap it to something else. Personally, I found the lack of a Windows key one of the most annoying things about my X21 and R51e, and found the Keyboard Customizer Utility's use of right Alt annoying in and of itself (it's not a valid option if you're using a non-US layout, and it interferes with the use of virtual machines (where right Alt is often the key to release the mouse from the VM)).

brchan · #22 Post by **brchan** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 6:42 pm

I also have had no problem with the windows key. Don't remember mis-typing on it either, but the logo is an eyesore, since I run linux

.

Nigellus · #23 Post by **Nigellus** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 7:21 pm

ajkula66 wrote:
Summilux wrote: On the contrary, that's a very good response rate, considering only a small percentage of Thinkpad users follows Lenovo blogs/forums/news.
Hmmm...I'm with Puppy here: given the amount of views and comments that the initial blog post had, I expected way more than 4K responses...

I think it's a pretty good response rate given the traffic that blog usually gets.

But if we're concerned about low response rates, we can help get the word out on social media and other outlets. I just shared the survey on my facebook page.

This forum has 50k+ registered members; how many of those are active? We should all be taking these surveys.

brchan · #24 Post by **brchan** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 7:27 pm

I honestly expected at least 4x the amount of survey submissions, given the amount of views and comments. I really hope that more people do the surveys, since it would be a huge disaster if lenovo pulls the plug on making a classic thinkpad.

bhtooefr · #25 Post by **bhtooefr** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 7:54 pm

One thing is that tech media reported on the original blog post, but AFAIK not the surveys.

Summilux · #26 Post by **Summilux** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 7:58 pm

bhtooefr wrote:One thing is that tech media reported on the original blog post, but AFAIK not the surveys.

Indeed. The writer of this article was raving about a Classic TP. Maybe it'd be worth dropping him a mail.

Nigellus · #27 Post by **Nigellus** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:20 pm

Summilux wrote:
bhtooefr wrote:One thing is that tech media reported on the original blog post, but AFAIK not the surveys.
Indeed. The writer of this article was raving about a Classic TP. Maybe it'd be worth dropping him a mail.

Well? This is the internet. His e-mail address is in the article information.

Is someone going to write him? I'll do it after I finish my workout if no one else does.

bgx · #28 Post by **bgx** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:38 pm

I was thinking of whom to ask to do the survey.
I am not too sure a very broad survey would be best.
consider 20% of people answered they are happy with 6row keyboard. That's huge! who in the world wnat that? people who only use touchpad, cause it makes the touchpad bigger, and dont care much about the keyboard? do you want these people to voice in? what is the point? they already have plenty of choices around anyway, why bothering having them put their desires?

I asked 3 friends only who are people doing things with their machines.

again, if you ask everybody on earth, most will say they want 16/9, touchpad, etc. I am fine with being the minority, i think we are numerous enough, but i am a bit scared of getting drawned into the mass desires...

4K votes is not too bad i think. people taking the time to answer 1,2,3 survey are not that many are those just clicking a link a barely reading it...

ajkula66 · #29 Post by **ajkula66** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:55 pm

brchan wrote:I honestly expected at least 4x the amount of survey submissions, given the amount of views and comments. I really hope that more people do the surveys, since it would be a huge disaster if lenovo pulls the plug on making a classic thinkpad.

+ 1

As my old friend and fellow forum member sarbin said in his response to the original blog post: spread the word far and wide...

Have your seventh-cousin-five-times-removed complete the surveys and vote a certain way...for those of us interested in reverting the absurd design decisions that Lenovo has made over the past couple of years this is an equivalent of Battle For Britain...

Summilux · #30 Post by **Summilux** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:16 pm

Nigellus wrote: Well? This is the internet. His e-mail address is in the article information.

Is someone going to write him? I'll do it after I finish my workout if no one else does.

I'm about to go sleeping (and should already have been long ago) so I'll have to pass.

I'm not sure if he'll write a news just for that survey, so maybe we can suggest him to have a quick phone or mail interview with David Hill. Notably regarding this project, why it came up just now, why Lenovo's doing it but not its closest competitors (re: discussions about the margins we've had earlier in this thread), etc.
That'll add substance to the article.

RetroThinkPad survey #2 of 4 the REAL one

RetroThinkPad survey #2 of 4 the REAL one

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