Survey 3 of 4 is up + PLEASE VOTE FOR this forum Aspect Ratio

Large picture files of Retro system may be posted here but please try to limit them to <200KB

display ratio prefered

4:3
37
51%
3:2
20
27%
16:10
15
21%
16:9
1
1%
 
Total votes: 73

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laowai
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Re: Survey 3 of ?? is up + PLEASE VOTE FOR this forum Aspect Ratio

#31 Post by laowai » Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:05 pm

these surveys will get interesting once they have gathered enough data to start doing the conjoint studies. mmm tradeoff analysis.

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Re: Survey 3 of ?? is up + PLEASE VOTE FOR this forum Aspect Ratio

#32 Post by ajkula66 » Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:09 pm

bhtooefr wrote:To be fair, I distinctly recall my X61t (and that's with a 17 W CPU) noticeably throttling hard when gaming, and that's well before any Mac imitation happened in the line.
To be fair...why would anyone consider gaming on a X61T? Some kind of PC masochism?
Conversely, my Mac will occasionally hit 95 C, when it's getting deep into the turbo, and back off turbo. That's not exactly throttling in the sense of how my X61t did it, and it's not actually that noticeable compared to my X61t slowing down to 600 MHz or less...
Of course they would throttle differently since the hardware differences are immense. While I don't doubt your account of events, I've heard very differently in quite a few places so I'll just leave it as different people getting different results in varying circumstances. Fair enough?
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Re: Survey 3 of ?? is up + PLEASE VOTE FOR this forum Aspect Ratio

#33 Post by QWERTY Andreas » Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:40 pm

ajkula66 wrote: With all the 15.6" systems from that era suffering from throttling - don't take my word for it, visit LF and NBR on the matter at hand - I have an *extremely* difficult time swallowing this review. Cooling on ThinkPads has sucked for several years now, big time. Which is what one gets for attempting to imitate Macs, but I digress...

If you cannot take this review, we have no base of a discussion. Notebookcheck is one of the most regarded notebook review sites on the internet.

Not all notebooks have throtteling issues. A lot of them have, but not all.
ajkula66 wrote: Most definitely yes.
If a notebook doesn't throttle, nor shutdown, under Prime95 it will not shutdown under any load that you put it under (presuming its CPU dependant).
ajkula66 wrote: Honestly, I would prefer not to. However, due to circumstances beyond my control I will likely have to.
[/quote]

Then it is simply all about finding the best i guess.
Last edited by QWERTY Andreas on Fri Jul 24, 2015 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Survey 3 of ?? is up + PLEASE VOTE FOR this forum Aspect Ratio

#34 Post by dr_st » Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:41 pm

laowai wrote:# of things that have HDMI: everything
# of things that have displayport: i have literally never seen it anywhere ever.
Professional-grade desktop monitors often have DP. Especially the ultra-high resolution ones.

But that's not the point, because any modern DP port is DP++, meaning it can output native HDMI. So you only need a passive adapter/cable to connect to any HDMI receiver.
QWERTY Andreas wrote:No reason to have both HDMI and Displayport IMO. Nor any reason to have both displayport and thunderbolt, since there is DP in TB.
The question is whether the DP in TB is always DP++, meaning can drive HDMI as well.
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Re: Survey 3 of ?? is up + PLEASE VOTE FOR this forum Aspect Ratio

#35 Post by MrMaguire » Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:48 pm

I voted 4:3.

In my obnoxious opinion, if it's not 4:3 then it's not "retro".

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Re: Survey 3 of ?? is up + PLEASE VOTE FOR this forum Aspect Ratio

#36 Post by bhtooefr » Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:54 pm

It was more a case of, I had the X61t, and did occasional light gaming on it when it was the computer I had with me, really - I wouldn't have ever selected an X61t as a gaming rig.
Current: X201 (i5-540M, 8 GiB, 160 GB), 365XD (120 MHz, 72 MiB, 6.4 GB, 4x CD-ROM, 10.4" TFT)
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Re: Survey 3 of ?? is up + PLEASE VOTE FOR this forum Aspect Ratio

#37 Post by Nigellus » Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:58 pm

bhtooefr wrote:It was more a case of, I had the X61t, and did occasional light gaming on it when it was the computer I had with me, really - I wouldn't have ever selected an X61t as a gaming rig.
There was a period during 2012-2013 that my desktop was non-functional, and I didn't have the equipment to fix it.

During that time, I used my docked T60 as my desktop. And during that time, I played World of Warcraft on my T60.

No, it's not a gaming machine, but I found the experience enjoyable.

My argument this whole time is that I want a business laptop first. If it can play videos and run games, that's fine. It doesn't have to be the best at that. But it DOES need to be the best at allowing me to be productive on the go.
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Re: Survey 3 of ?? is up + PLEASE VOTE FOR this forum Aspect Ratio

#38 Post by RealBlackStuff » Fri Jul 24, 2015 1:02 pm

This being not just a David Hill, but a Lenovo survey, who knows what the REAL figures are?
Lenovo is not always telling the truth, more like they tell you what Lenovo wants you to hear...

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Re: Survey 3 of ?? is up + PLEASE VOTE FOR this forum Aspect Ratio

#39 Post by bhtooefr » Fri Jul 24, 2015 1:02 pm

And, I should have also made it clear that gaming was the workload that pushed my X61t into true throttling. It's the only workload that I found that did it, due to the sustained CPU and GPU load.
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Re: Survey 3 of ?? is up + PLEASE VOTE FOR this forum Aspect Ratio

#40 Post by mydreamlaptop » Fri Jul 24, 2015 1:07 pm

RealBlackStuff wrote:This being not just a David Hill, but a Lenovo survey, who knows what the REAL figures are?
Lenovo is not always telling the truth, more like they tell you what Lenovo wants you to hear...
Case in point: "Why you should give in to the chiclet keyboard"
http://blog.lenovo.com/en/blog/why-you- ... d-keyboard

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Re: Survey 3 of ?? is up + PLEASE VOTE FOR this forum Aspect Ratio

#41 Post by Nigellus » Fri Jul 24, 2015 1:17 pm

mydreamlaptop wrote:
RealBlackStuff wrote:This being not just a David Hill, but a Lenovo survey, who knows what the REAL figures are?
Lenovo is not always telling the truth, more like they tell you what Lenovo wants you to hear...
Case in point: "Why you should give in to the chiclet keyboard"
http://blog.lenovo.com/en/blog/why-you- ... d-keyboard
I found that article to be offensive. The consistent message of Lenovo is two-fold. 1.) The only reason you wouldn't like the new keyboard is that you're resistant to change; 2.) that those of us resistant to change are only concerned by how it looks (hence them pointing out that the curves on the bottom of the keys makes it look more like a traditional keyboard).

How about, the fact that the original keyboard was the best keyboard I've ever used? That doesn't seem to be in Lenovo's universe of opinions it will take seriously.

That's why I'm looking into a T-420, calling it The Last ThinkPad, and trying to make it last ten years like I did with my 600E.
T420 i5-2520M 2.50GHz 4 GB RAM 64-bit OS WIN7pro SP1

T60 1951-46U Intel Core Duo 1.83GHz 1 GB RAM 60 GB XPpro

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Computers do exactly what you tell them at amazing speeds; this can be bad if what you told them wasn't what you had in mind.

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Re: Survey 3 of ?? is up + PLEASE VOTE FOR this forum Aspect Ratio

#42 Post by kony » Fri Jul 24, 2015 1:54 pm

Hah, according to the poll in this thread I am literally the only person who prefers 16:9 :o
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Re: Survey 3 of ?? is up + PLEASE VOTE FOR this forum Aspect Ratio

#43 Post by ajkula66 » Fri Jul 24, 2015 2:03 pm

kony wrote:Hah, according to the poll in this thread I am literally the only person who prefers 16:9 :o
Good. Let it stay that way.
RealBlackStuff wrote:This being not just a David Hill, but a Lenovo survey, who knows what the REAL figures are?
Lenovo is not always telling the truth, more like they tell you what Lenovo wants you to hear...
QFT.

They pretty much made it clear from the start that we'll get 4:3 three weeks after the hell freezes over whether we like it or not.
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Re: Survey 3 of ?? is up + PLEASE VOTE FOR this forum Aspect Ratio

#44 Post by bhtooefr » Fri Jul 24, 2015 2:22 pm

kony wrote:Hah, according to the poll in this thread I am literally the only person who prefers 16:9 :o
#stopkony

I'm actually OK with really wide (even, in cases like the VAIO P, wider than 16:9) aspect ratios on small machines (under 12" or so), to preserve keyboard size. But, that's not appropriate for this machine at all, and anything wider than 16:10 is inappropriate IMO unless you're completely eliminating the palmrest or something. (At 295 x 154 mm, just about the minimum footprint for a 7-row 19 mm pitch ThinkPad keyboard, you could justify going further than 16:9, even. Let's say 5 mm bezel on each side except for the top, where there's 20 mm bezel to make room for a camera, that's 285 x 129 mm, or a 16:7.24 aspect ratio on a 12.3" display. That would be a rather interesting machine, but really, not actually that practical except for really weird applications (I'd rather go smaller with such a weird aspect ratio to get a more portable machine.))
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Re: Survey 3 of ?? is up + PLEASE VOTE FOR this forum Aspect Ratio

#45 Post by ajkula66 » Fri Jul 24, 2015 3:24 pm

QWERTY Andreas wrote:
If you cannot take this review, we have no base of a discussion. Notebookcheck is one of the most regarded notebook review sites on the internet.
I'm not ripping notebookcheck or their review but simply saying that it doesn't reflect what I've heard elsewhere. Mistakes happen, even to the best and most professional websites.
Not all notebooks have throtteling issues. A lot of them have, but not all.
I guess that I should've been more clear: I was referring to all 15.6" ThinkPads from that era, not notebooks in general.
If a notebook doesn't throttle, nor shutdown, under Prime95 it will not shutdown under any load that you put it under (presuming its CPU dependant).
Once again, you presume that you know what type of software - and yes, the load is CPU dependent - I'm referring to. You don't. I doubt that anyone on this forum has ever encountered it first hand since it's highly proprietary and industry-specific.
Then it is simply all about finding the best i guess.
Here we agree. I'm shivering at the thought of a Clevo being my next laptop, but I may very well not have any choice in the matter, given where Intel, Lenovo and Microsoft are *all* headed... :roll:
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Re: Survey 3 of ?? is up + PLEASE VOTE FOR this forum Aspect Ratio

#46 Post by QWERTY Andreas » Fri Jul 24, 2015 4:23 pm

ajkula66 wrote: I'm not ripping notebookcheck or their review but simply saying that it doesn't reflect what I've heard elsewhere. Mistakes happen, even to the best and most professional websites.
Well.. I don't know who is rigth or wrong. But i do trust notebookcheck, and that is the best source i can find so far. According to this, pretty reliable source, it throttles in dock with high configs: http://thinkwiki.de/T440p - i dont notice anything else about throttling.

Can you find somewhere where it refers to throttling as a broad audience problem? Because i can't find anything other than a few cases.
ajkula66 wrote: I guess that I should've been more clear: I was referring to all 15.6" ThinkPads from that era, not notebooks in general.
As far as i can read the W530 (Notebookcheck again, my primary source) doesn't have throttling issues, but the W540/41 have. I do a agree that it is a problem on a lot of notebooks. But again, not all.
ajkula66 wrote: Once again, you presume that you know what type of software - and yes, the load is CPU dependent - I'm referring to. You don't. I doubt that anyone on this forum has ever encountered it first hand since it's highly proprietary and industry-specific.
A program that taxes the CPU, so it runs hotter than under 100% load. That doesn't make much sense to me :? Either way, if it taxes the CPU more than prime95 im impressed. And before i believe that, i have to see some numbers.

So im still pretty convinced that a 45W QC can be managed in a notebook - down to 12".
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#47 Post by Summilux » Fri Jul 24, 2015 4:30 pm

Here's the breakdown of my answers to the survey:

CPU
47watts processor. Because my X220's Sandy Bridge is a 35w one already, better go up than downgrade with 15-28w enveloppe. Also this choice will give a chance to have GT4e graphics.

Gfx
Iris Pro. We've reached a "good enough" level, and I think preferring an integrated solution over a dedicated graphic card will provide better thermal management.

Memory
Ha ha! Everybody knows the answer already!

Battery
Normal extended battery (rear)

Hinges
Normal hinges

HDD
Both HDD (more like 2,5" SSD) and mSATA/M.2

Ports
SD Card
Full HDMI (DP nice but not necessary; time to ditch VGA as I have no use for it)
Full Ethernet
USB 3 x3
USB-C
TBolt
Normal docking port

ODD
No ODD


Regarding this forum's survey, 30 answers and 87% are in favour of 4:3 or 3:2. That's quite telling.
I have the feeling that Lenovo will conveniently look at absolute votes (which format gather the most) as opposed to grouping votes into narrower (4:3 + 3:2) or wider (16:10 + 16:9) preferences.
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Re:

#48 Post by Dante of the Inferno » Fri Jul 24, 2015 5:28 pm

Summilux wrote:Here's the breakdown of my answers to the survey:

CPU
47watts processor. Because my X220's Sandy Bridge is a 35w one already, better go up than downgrade with 15-28w enveloppe. Also this choice will give a chance to have GT4e graphics.

Gfx
Iris Pro. We've reached a "good enough" level, and I think preferring an integrated solution over a dedicated graphic card will provide better thermal management.

Memory
Ha ha! Everybody knows the answer already!

Battery
Normal extended battery (rear)

Hinges
Normal hinges

HDD
Both HDD (more like 2,5" SSD) and mSATA/M.2

Ports
SD Card
Full HDMI (DP nice but not necessary; time to ditch VGA as I have no use for it)
Full Ethernet
USB 3 x3
USB-C
TBolt
Normal docking port

ODD
No ODD

This guy gets it.

However, I am torn about even having a docking port. A mechanical docking port is taking up a huge chunk of volume (both footprint and vertical). The logistical issue that was solved by a dock (or even that 2-in-1 side port Lenovo has been hawking for a couple years now) will be obviated by Thunderbolt 3, which Intel has said will use the USB 3.1 Type-C form factor. USB 3.1 Type-C (specifically, and apparently ONLY THAT MODEL) can supply up to 100W, which should sate any quad core Intel used (Iris preferably - I don't think that dedicated graphics will run in such a small body on top of everything else on under 100 W). So if Lenovo adopts the full package (which they had better), then USB-C, Thunderbolt, and docking (including power) will be solved by one little port on the back (we all want normal hinges, after all).

If anyone interested is a professional that absolutely must use a DisplayPort monitor, then you're either already going to have a dock (which Thunderbolt can easily handle) or you'll be fine with a Thunderbolt-to-DisplayPort adapter, since the adapter can just rest on the monitor cable anyway.

I could go for an Ultrabay. The idea of even more battery, or an extra hard drive, or a Blu-Ray reader/writer does sound nice.

Support for HDD and SSD would be ideal. It serves as good bet in case mSATA/M.2 give us any future feature goodies.

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Re: Survey 3 of ?? is up + PLEASE VOTE FOR this forum Aspect Ratio

#49 Post by sysiphus » Fri Jul 24, 2015 5:41 pm

ajkula66 wrote:
Please educate me with a real-world example.

Some of the proprietary industry-related-software that I happen to run on occasion will shut down just about any laptop, short of possibly a Clevo with a desktop CPU. Don't presume that you know how I - or for that fact anyone else - uses their system, or what their specific requirements are.
George, I can give you an example, though to be fair it's HP rather than Lenovo. My Elitebook 8460w has a 45W i7-2670qm (Sandy Bridge) that I can run for hours with no problem (running finite element analysis, mostly--multithreaded custom code that pushes it to the max). It heats up like you wouldn't believe, but it does fine. Credit the combination of a reasonably think machine (~32mm) and a metal frame/body that very effectively acts as a heat sink. Honestly, give it a better quality display (it has the same lousy 1600x900 TN panel that the T420 got) and it'd be just about perfect. Lots of ports, slots, power, and designed to be worked on. Sadly, the model was discontinued after the 8470w (Ivy Bridge) version, and the Zbook 14 that replaced it veered towards "ultrabook" at the expense of an optical drive and proper CPUs. A proper 14" workstation can be done, but sadly there seems to be little will/drive to do it.

Also, I filled out the survey, in all cases going for thicker/more flexible design, e.g. optical drive/ultrabay, RAM slots, etc. I too share the suspicion that we will get a modern X300, though I'd much rather it take the approach of a 14" T60p. As my really heavy-duty work is mostly offloaded to clusters/a supercomputer at this point, I can afford to give up some power, but won't feel any strong impetus to buy/switch to one if a new X-series is what we get. To follow what others have said, an X201-style machine would at least be a step better (I'll concede the optical drive before the higher-power processor)
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Re: Survey 3 of ?? is up + PLEASE VOTE FOR this forum Aspect Ratio

#50 Post by ajkula66 » Fri Jul 24, 2015 6:42 pm

QWERTY Andreas wrote:
Well.. I don't know who is rigth or wrong. But i do trust notebookcheck, and that is the best source i can find so far.
We keep on going in circles here...read on...
According to this, pretty reliable source, it throttles in dock with high configs: http://thinkwiki.de/T440p - i dont notice anything else about throttling.
I don't know about it being such a reliable source at all times. I've had to make quite a few edits over there as have some of the other members of this forum, albeit not all that recently. But I'll agree with you that it is a reliable source generally speaking.
As far as i can read the W530 (Notebookcheck again, my primary source) doesn't have throttling issues, but the W540/41 have. I do a agree that it is a problem on a lot of notebooks. But again, not all.
I believe that you'd have to do some research on the two forums that I've previously mentioned as well but who am I to say anything.
A program that taxes the CPU, so it runs hotter than under 100% load. That doesn't make much sense to me :? Either way, if it taxes the CPU more than prime95 im impressed. And before i believe that, i have to see some numbers.
I'm too old to be easily provoked.

And this is not the first time that you've tried it with me. Move on there's nothing to see.
So im still pretty convinced that a 45W QC can be managed in a notebook - down to 12".
You are and I'm not, at least when it comes to ThinkPads.
sysiphus wrote:

George, I can give you an example, though to be fair it's HP rather than Lenovo. My Elitebook 8460w has a 45W i7-2670qm (Sandy Bridge) that I can run for hours with no problem (running finite element analysis, mostly--multithreaded custom code that pushes it to the max). It heats up like you wouldn't believe, but it does fine. Credit the combination of a reasonably think machine (~32mm) and a metal frame/body that very effectively acts as a heat sink. Honestly, give it a better quality display (it has the same lousy 1600x900 TN panel that the T420 got) and it'd be just about perfect. Lots of ports, slots, power, and designed to be worked on.
Someone on the NBR put in a 45W SB i7 in the T420. They ended up with an oven. A very fast one, but not capable of really long runs. For a couple of generations HP had a far better cooling practices than ThinkPads IMO.
A proper 14" workstation can be done, but sadly there seems to be little will/drive to do it.
Here's the problem: it's Lenovo - not me - who came up with a 13.3"/14" format. I would've been just fine with 15" or more. And the way I'm seeing it, a workstation this one won't be.
To follow what others have said, an X201-style machine would at least be a step better (I'll concede the optical drive before the higher-power processor)
I hope that you - and others in that camp - end up getting what you want because I'm almost dead certain at this point in the game that I'm not getting what I'm interested in.
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Re: Re:

#51 Post by Summilux » Fri Jul 24, 2015 6:52 pm

Dante of the Inferno wrote: However, I am torn about even having a docking port.
(...)
I could go for an Ultrabay. The idea of even more battery, or an extra hard drive, or a Blu-Ray reader/writer does sound nice.
The idea with the mechanical docking port is to offload/optimise the laptop for mobility, yet provide an integrated option for more features on the go (at the cost of an additional weight).

The scenario I have in mind is that, for daily and short haul needs, one would get a laptop that includes neither an ODD nor an Ultrabay (perhaps no VGA either). This lack of large internal space allows the computer to be filled with ports and components, whilst containing its size/weight. (And keep it fully featured! I don't mean to go the Macbook Air way).
The 9-cell + slice battery combo can be used if battery needs are important.

For home or long travels (understood as long commuting or temporary relocation), a mechanical dock provides the advantage of offering more ports as well as an Ultrabay, but in a package which can be transported together with the laptop: it sits solidly right under. Even better, you can use the dock's components whilst you're travelling; including what you've fitted the Ultrabay with, and a VGA port which would have been offloaded onto the dock.

To me this dual approach is most adapted to travelling needs.
Daisy-chaining would still be available to those who prefer it, as a Thunderbolt port would be featured on the laptop.
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Re: Survey 3 of ?? is up + PLEASE VOTE FOR this forum Aspect Ratio

#52 Post by hhhd1 » Fri Jul 24, 2015 8:11 pm

I really would like to see the results of lenovo's poll about aspect ratio.

depending on how you read the poll 3:2 should be considered acceptable middle ground between 16:10 and 16:12 , since it is actually 16 : 10.67.


Voted for 47w + Iris graphics.

I even prefer integrated graphics over dedicated.

IMO, Too many known issues with dedicated gfx, starting from failure and up to linux drivers issues, and I have first hand experience with those issues.
I do not game anymore, and iris can even handle moderate gaming fine, and integrated gfx have reached a great level of maturity, and, .. this will make it easier for lenovo's people to design an efficient heatsink, hopefully..
===

Blzut3
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Re: Survey 3 of ?? is up + PLEASE VOTE FOR this forum Aspect Ratio

#53 Post by Blzut3 » Fri Jul 24, 2015 9:49 pm

I don't really understand the negativity towards Thinkpads as gaming machines (although I do understand the people that don't need it not wanting to worry about the dedicated GPU failing). The trackpoint is an awesome mouse for mobile gaming (that is without carrying an external mouse). There are some games where the trackpoint works better than an external mouse (those with limited angular movement), for example the classic 6 degree of freedom game Descent.

While no laptop is a perfect substitute for a desktop in regards to gaming, I do use my Thinkpad for gaming on the go. I'm a programmer and I do a lot of game programming. A full featured GPU option is an essential feature in my opinion.

Intel graphics are getting more powerful, but the biggest problem with them is they don't support the latest APIs. To give an example, the GZDoom project switched to using OpenGL 3/4 and as a result my X61 Tablet can't run it, but my T61 with nvidia graphics can. In fact it took another two generations for Intel to support OpenGL 3. That doesn't even touch on the fact that there are different levels of API support based on what operating system you're running (for example the Sandy Bridge graphics being capable of GL 3.3 but only 3.1 on Windows. Earlier examples include being capable of OpenGL 2.1, but only supporting 1.x).
T530 (2359-CTO), X61 Tablet (7767-96U), T61 (7663-CTO), A31p (2653-H5U), T22 (2647-8EU), 380XD (2635-EAU)
W700ds (2753-E7U), X41 Tablet (1867-5GU), T21 (2647-9BU), 760XD (9546-U9E), 755CD (9545-9BD), 755CSE (9545-6BE)
R60 (9461-DUU), R500 (2718-BG1)

Summilux
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Re: Survey 3 of ?? is up + PLEASE VOTE FOR this forum Aspect Ratio

#54 Post by Summilux » Fri Jul 24, 2015 9:59 pm

You are making a good point about the APIs. That can be important in your case.

I expect this won't be an issue for people who aren't focused on games or specific graphics software.
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X220 4287-CTO

sysiphus
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Re: Survey 3 of ?? is up + PLEASE VOTE FOR this forum Aspect Ratio

#55 Post by sysiphus » Sat Jul 25, 2015 1:25 am

ajkula66 wrote:
Someone on the NBR put in a 45W SB i7 in the T420. They ended up with an oven. A very fast one, but not capable of really long runs. For a couple of generations HP had a far better cooling practices than ThinkPads IMO.
----
Here's the problem: it's Lenovo - not me - who came up with a 13.3"/14" format. I would've been just fine with 15" or more. And the way I'm seeing it, a workstation this one won't be.
---
I hope that you - and others in that camp - end up getting what you want because I'm almost dead certain at this point in the game that I'm not getting what I'm interested in.
Yes, I can imagine that the T420 wasn't well-suited to a 45W processor. Ouch. And agreed, the 8x60p/w (and essentially unchanged but for processor/graphics 8x70p/w) Elitebooks were thermally much better than the Tx20/Tx30 series. I suspect the HPs were designed from the ground up to be workstations, then also offered in scaled-back models, rather than vice-versa, as the ThinkPads of the same timeframe so clearly were done.

In any event, I share your doubt that Lenovo can competently design and build a proper 14" workstation, though frankly they haven't build a solid mobile workstation in any form factor for several design cycles now. Fortunately, both Dell and HP are quite competent in this arena. Given Lenovo's shortcomings in recent workstation models, I'd rather see them build a proper X-series or even standard T-series (like a T61) than get a halfway attempt at a workstation. My position is swayed by the ability (and need) to offload my heavier workloads to computing clusters etc, however. All that said, a follow up to the A31p would be rather grand.
HP EliteBook 8460w/Scientific Linux 6.5

ajkula66
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Re: Survey 3 of ?? is up + PLEASE VOTE FOR this forum Aspect Ratio

#56 Post by ajkula66 » Sat Jul 25, 2015 1:33 am

sysiphus wrote: Given Lenovo's shortcomings in recent workstation models, I'd rather see them build a proper X-series or even standard T-series (like a T61) than get a halfway attempt at a workstation.
No argument from me on that one. Whatever they end up doing, they better do it right.
All that said, a follow up to the A31p would be rather grand.
Yeah, I've been waiting for that one since 2004... :roll: ...now if Lenovo were to come up with something along the lines of re-vamped A31p, they could take one of my kidneys...
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

Cheers,

George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)

AARP club members:A31p, T43pSF

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PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.

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Re: Survey 3 of ?? is up + PLEASE VOTE FOR this forum Aspect Ratio

#57 Post by Pokrzept » Sat Jul 25, 2015 4:16 am

ajkula66 wrote:
sysiphus wrote: Given Lenovo's shortcomings in recent workstation models, I'd rather see them build a proper X-series or even standard T-series (like a T61) than get a halfway attempt at a workstation.
No argument from me on that one. Whatever they end up doing, they better do it right.
All that said, a follow up to the A31p would be rather grand.
Yeah, I've been waiting for that one since 2004... :roll: ...now if Lenovo were to come up with something along the lines of re-vamped A31p, they could take one of my kidneys...
Well if you have a spare kidney you shall talk to our beloved chinese modders - I've heard that there's huge market for those goods and you may try to convice Hope to make an barter exchange: 1 healthy kidney for 1 A32p dedicated motherboard :twisted:

PS. I should be more careful about my jokes, some humorless NSA official may put me into jail for internal organ trafficking as soon as I land on any USA airport :eek: .
T601F 8889-ABG/2007-FBG: T9300(1.0V), 8GB RAM, 256 GB SSD + 1TB HDD/DVD-RW, 1600x1200, NVS140M(0.95V), Intel 802.11agn, WWAN, BT, 1Gb Eth, UltraNav, FPR, 9c+6c
310ED/360CSE/760LD/2x760ED/760XL/A22m/3xA31p/R50p/2xT60 15"SXGA+/T60F/T61 14"SXGA+/T400/X60/X61s/X61 Reserve Edition/X201/X220/L450

jcvjcvjcvjcv
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Re: Survey 3 of ?? is up + PLEASE VOTE FOR this forum Aspect Ratio

#58 Post by jcvjcvjcvjcv » Sat Jul 25, 2015 8:11 pm

Loololol, bar graphs for a lot of questions, but for screen aspect ratio we just get "16:10 won"? Really!? I guess it's 5% 16:9, 35% 16:10 and 30% each for 3:2 and 4:3. That means 3:2 has won, unless we follow the American way of democracy where a strategically placed ~10% can win all.
laowai wrote:
QWERTY Andreas wrote: No reason to have both HDMI and Displayport IMO. Nor any reason to have both displayport and thunderbolt, since there is DP in TB.
DP and TB, ok you got me there, i have never used either.
I'm just looking at the future.

# of things that have HDMI: everything
# of things that have displayport: i have literally never seen it anywhere ever.

in a mini form though, i wouldnt care if it was there and i never used it. it's more about the "if it takes off i'll be *****Expletives removed by Moderator***** i dont have it"
I have literally never used HDMI once. Also; HDMI is always behind in tech compared to DP. DP all the way! The only thing that has a HDMI input that I own is a Dell U3014; and it's exclusively used with DVI Dual Link and DP.

My DSLR's have HDMI out though. I might see if that works, when I ever get around to buying a cable. Of course the older one has fullsize and the newer one a mini... :roll:
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Re: Survey 3 of ?? is up + PLEASE VOTE FOR this forum Aspect Ratio

#59 Post by RMSMajestic » Sat Jul 25, 2015 8:45 pm

I think the optimal screen ratio depends on the screen size.
For 11" and below, I think 16:10 or even 16:9 is good.
For 12" laptop, I kinda prefer X201(16:10). But I'd prefer X61 if it has a 1280*960 screen
For 13", it's really hard to tell.
For 14" and 15", I'd definitely prefer 4:3. either SXGA+ or UXGA
For 17", I think 16:10 WUXGA is much better than anything 4:3, a 17" 4:3 would be too tall to carry conveniently.

I'm only talking about windows 7 default (96 DPI) here
Chobits: W701ds i7-940|32G|FX3800m|Digitizer|Calibrator
Big ones: W701 top config T63p QX9300|8G|UXGA T61p dead, please go die as well nVIDIA
Small ones: X61sp P8800X61t SXGA X201 NIB
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Re: Survey 3 of ?? is up + PLEASE VOTE FOR this forum Aspect Ratio

#60 Post by bhtooefr » Sat Jul 25, 2015 8:52 pm

DisplayPort is definitely around - things that are oriented towards professional applications have it basically guaranteed, partially because it has higher resolution support than HDMI and DVI due to running faster. (DisplayPort 1.3 supports 25.92 Gbps (enough for 5120x2880 @ 60 Hz), contrast with HDMI 2.0's 14.4 Gbps (enough for 4096x2160 @ 60 Hz) and dual-link DVI's 7.92 Gbps (enough for 2560x1600 @ 60 Hz).) And, it's supplanted FPD-Link as the standard internal protocol for LCDs in laptops and tablets (there are still a few older designs around using FPD-Link, but anything new is using Embedded DisplayPort).

HDMI is dominant in consumer multimedia, though, as VGA hadn't taken off for whatever reason (probably not enough of a jump over component to justify a compatibility break), everything high-end was still using component, and HDMI added some things to the DVI protocol that made the movie studios happier (HDCP, namely). (I also suspect that both VGA and DVI suffered in the multimedia space due to having screw-down connectors, which have been avoided for quite a long time in that space, except for coax (which predates all the connectors for consumer device video inputs into TVs).)

Conversely, in computing, DVI had backwards compatibility with VGA (which HDMI didn't) and support for dual-link (when HDMI had the same bit-rate as single-link DVI), so there wasn't really a reason to put HDMI ports on desktops (except for some intended for multimedia applications) - if you needed to connect to a TV, you could get a passive adapter and just feed that TV from the DVI port. Laptops did have a need for a smaller port than DVI, but there was often only room for one port considering the legacy ports that had to stay around for a while (modem ports, parallel and/or serial ports, that kind of thing), and VGA was critical for use with business projectors (which rarely had any digital input), so nothing digital really took off for a while (except on Macs, where Apple did the whole "screw the legacy connectors, we're doing our own thing!" thing with Mini-DVI) outside of desktops and docking stations. Also, there were some very high resolution LCDs (IBM T220/T221, Apple 30" Cinema Display and other similar displays) that needed more than HDMI could deliver (although, to be fair, the T220/T221 needed more than even dual-link DVI could deliver, which leads into the next part), so DVI became more cemented as the computing standard, HDMI as the multimedia standard.

IBM ended up developing Digital Packetized Video Link as a way to try to drive the T221 with less bandwidth, and it eventually got used as a low-power embedded standard. VESA then took that standard and used it as the basis for DisplayPort, which was also free of some of the royalties that applied to the TMDS-based protocols such as DVI and HDMI. And, DisplayPort was meant as both an internal and external interface - read: cost reduction, as the same hardware could drive a laptop panel and an external panel.

Then, consumer multimedia-oriented laptops started getting bigger, legacy ports fell off, and they started sprouting HDMI ports because multimedia. Conversely, business-oriented laptops started sprouting DisplayPort ports. Apple adopted DisplayPort big time (with a mini connector, too), probably because when they did it, their high-end applications weren't the "play your DVDs from your laptop" applications, but rather the "do professional stuff in Photoshop or Final Cut Pro" applications. And, here we are. (Interestingly, my Mac has two Thunderbolt ports and an HDMI port, though...)

Also, as an aside, Mini DisplayPort is getting some traction outside of Apple's ecosystem, partially because Apple's ecosystem is simply big enough that there's economies of scale and a large enough installed base to use it. Conversely, the small HDMI variants (Type C and D) aren't anywhere nearly as well-adopted - I mean, I've got a tablet with HDMI Type D, but the only place to really get cables is Monoprice.
Current: X201 (i5-540M, 8 GiB, 160 GB), 365XD (120 MHz, 72 MiB, 6.4 GB, 4x CD-ROM, 10.4" TFT)
Past: T61p 15.0" QXGA, T60p 15.0" QXGA, X61 Tablet SXGA+, R51e 14.1" XGA, X21

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