RetroThinkPad survey #4 of 4 *** FINAL SURVEY **

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Re: RetroThinkPad survey #4 of 4 *** FINAL SURVEY **

#31 Post by theterminator93 » Sat Aug 01, 2015 5:33 am

Bibin wrote:roll your face around in the mud.
Play nice, and respect other peoples' needs without belittling them or getting ecstatic and irrational. You don't need to like other peoples' preferences and needs, but you do need to respect them in kind.

Not everyone uses these machines in the same way, and there's the fault in only offering one model for everyone. If I don't like what they release, I don't buy it. I've already got several "classic" ThinkPads that suit my needs very nicely. Five or six years down the line when things progress enough in my line of work to finally not need an ODD, I'll probably pick one up used as a collectible and call it a day.

I'll continue to use my T420 indefinitely if necessary, that was the point of my buying and upgrading it at the start of the year before this initiative was announced.

I really do want to be able to buy one of these things - to, as has been said - hopefully prove to Lenovo that there is a market for something like this to allow additional, more specific lineups to be resurrected. But I can't justify spending a four figure sum on a machine I only find partially useful - again, because I've already got machines that are serving me quite nicely, without the feature compromise.

That said - this is my own preferences for a personal work unit. I'd have no issues whatsoever buying them in bulk for my clients...
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Re: RetroThinkPad survey #4 of 4 *** FINAL SURVEY **

#32 Post by RealBlackStuff » Sat Aug 01, 2015 5:56 am

General problem with the Chinese:
they don't design anything themselves, they either rob designs from others or blatantly copy them.
Look where all this robbing/copying got them!
From 2014 to 2015 Lenovo fell from 2nd to 6th place, due to poor service, spy/ad/bloatware, rotten keyboards etc.
http://blog.laptopmag.com/laptop-brand-ratings

OTOH, look at all the free advertising Lenovo is currently getting out of this blog and the surveys!
Lenovo already had a big survey in 2009: https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/General-Di ... d-p/133360
No idea what the outcome was of that one...

I wonder if this current surveying is leading up to a 25 years Anniversary model of the Thinkpad in 2017?
If the new design of their forum is indicative of their mindset, then we are doomed!

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Re: RetroThinkPad survey #4 of 4 *** FINAL SURVEY **

#33 Post by Systematician » Sun Aug 02, 2015 4:53 am

I agree with Ibmthink. Without lead_org's efforts, this opportunity would probably not have arisen. And I myself am extremely pleased and relieved that I may finally find a laptop whose keyboard, trackpoint and screen I can be satisfied with.

It is not constructive at this point to focus on Lenovo's missteps in the past, or to let disagreement about less important parts of the Retro ThinkPad overshadow for instance what was revealed about the overwhelming support for the 7 row keyboard.

Let us stay positive and optimistic, and try to make our Retro ThinkPad as good as possible.

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Re: RetroThinkPad survey #4 of 4 *** FINAL SURVEY **

#34 Post by coolcat37 » Sun Aug 02, 2015 5:26 am

Systematician wrote:And I myself am extremely pleased and relieved that I may finally find a laptop whose keyboard, trackpoint and screen I can be satisfied with.
The result (go / no go) has not yet been announced, nor is (are) the final product(s)

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Re: RetroThinkPad survey #4 of 4 *** FINAL SURVEY **

#35 Post by Systematician » Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:02 am

coolcat37 wrote:
Systematician wrote:And I myself am extremely pleased and relieved that I may finally find a laptop whose keyboard, trackpoint and screen I can be satisfied with.
The result (go / no go) has not yet been announced, nor is (are) the final product(s)
I know this, and I have not suggested otherwise. In any case, I believe that the probability that we will see a Retro ThinkPad in one form or another is high. Lenovo has invested much time and prestige in this, and the publicity has been huge. Lenovo would not cancel the project light-heartedly.

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Re: RetroThinkPad survey #4 of 4 *** FINAL SURVEY **

#36 Post by ajkula66 » Sun Aug 02, 2015 11:37 am

Systematician wrote:Without lead_org's efforts, this opportunity would probably not have arisen.
I don't recall anyone criticizing lead_org's efforts in this thread.
And I myself am extremely pleased and relieved that I may finally find a laptop whose keyboard, trackpoint and screen I can be satisfied with.
Good for you, but we effectively know next to nothing at this point. That's a fact.
It is not constructive at this point to focus on Lenovo's missteps in the past, or to let disagreement about less important parts of the Retro ThinkPad overshadow for instance what was revealed about the overwhelming support for the 7 row keyboard.

Let us stay positive and optimistic, and try to make our Retro ThinkPad as good as possible.
Well, the ones who forget the past are deemed to repeat it...anyways...

Who *exactly* decides what "the less important parts" are? You? Me? It is painfully obvious that within the hardcore user camp there are two opposed groups at the very least, and creating a single laptop will leave one of them - at best - hanging.

Personally, I absolutely refuse to drool over the fact that the 7-row keyboard might come back for this machine since it should've never been taken away from the "mainstream" ThinkPad range in the first place.

I'm all for making this project see the light of the day. With that being said, I've also been known throughout most of my life - let alone my fairly short presence on this forum - for calling BS when I see it, and have no intent of changing that policy.
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Re: RetroThinkPad survey #4 of 4 *** FINAL SURVEY **

#37 Post by mydreamlaptop » Mon Aug 03, 2015 3:37 am

The Ultrabay has the advantage of size. It allows fitting things that wouldn't fit in an expresscard slot. Shrinking it to the size of just another 2.5" bay would defeat the purpose. I seem to recall some Ideapad that allowed putting a graphics card in the Ultrabay. A long time ago there was also a numpad in Ultrabay.
Bibin wrote:That is like a bakery not having the flavor of muffin you wanted, so the solution was to roll your face around in the mud.
Microsoft is making their Surface with a 3:2 screen. Chances are somebody will use at least 3:2 height screen in a workstation laptop eventually. Will Lenovo lead or follow?

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Re: RetroThinkPad survey #4 of 4 *** FINAL SURVEY **

#38 Post by laowai » Mon Aug 03, 2015 1:15 pm

if they nuked the ultrabay in exchange for an extra hard drive or two, i'd love the hell out of them for doing it. that's all i have ever used it for anyways.

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Re: RetroThinkPad survey #4 of 4 *** FINAL SURVEY **

#39 Post by FryPpy » Mon Aug 03, 2015 3:57 pm

I have participated in all 4 surveys. And i 100% know that miracle will not happen. I will not see T560 like T60 (very interesting thing 60;) in 2016. But i belive all this surveys is made not only for this RetroThinkPad but for all Lenovo design cource. May be some minor things from this survey (like latches or ultrabay or 7row;) will appear in new 60-series of ThinkPads. And it will be a miracle.

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Re: RetroThinkPad survey #4 of 4 *** FINAL SURVEY **

#40 Post by Nigellus » Tue Aug 04, 2015 9:54 am

I like the ultra-bay/ODD because I still have a lot of clients giving me files on CD.

However, at the end of the day, if they give me a modern computer with a ThinkPad keyboard (an actual one, not this new Apple ripoff), I'll buy it. What else am I going to do? It would be literally the ONLY laptop on the market built for typing.

As to all the aesthetic stuff they think I care about, they could make it in the shape of a neon-pink apple and, if they got the keyboard right, I'd buy it.
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Re: RetroThinkPad survey #4 of 4 *** FINAL SURVEY **

#41 Post by kony » Tue Aug 04, 2015 12:45 pm

FryPpy wrote:I have participated in all 4 surveys. And i 100% know that miracle will not happen. I will not see T560 like T60 (very interesting thing 60;) in 2016. But i belive all this surveys is made not only for this RetroThinkPad but for all Lenovo design cource. May be some minor things from this survey (like latches or ultrabay or 7row;) will appear in new 60-series of ThinkPads. And it will be a miracle.
Yeah, I don't expect them to make a "classic" Thinkpad, I just think they might consider the results of surveys when designing the new Thinkpads of the existing series. That's cool with me though. For now I am happy with T430, I hope by the time I will need to upgrade they will release a decent laptop again.
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Re: RetroThinkPad survey #4 of 4 *** FINAL SURVEY **

#42 Post by ajkula66 » Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:38 pm

Interestingly enough, two of my replies - to the same poster and pertaining to the same matter - have been deleted. Neither of them contained offensive language or misinformation or was even pertaining directly to Lenovo.

My post:
Voted my preferences. Whatever OS this machine - presuming that we get to see it in the first place - ends up shipping with, driver support for W7 is essential in my opinion.
other poster's reply:
Asking for support on such an old OS is a bit much. Perhaps it's time to move on.
In my reply to his reply I've stated that the W7 is still the name of the game in the corporate world and will be supported until 2020. Yet it got deleted both times.

Makes one wonder what else gets deleted...

They can have fun with their blog without me from now on. Not that it will matter to them one way or another in the least, but nevertheless...
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Re: RetroThinkPad survey #4 of 4 *** FINAL SURVEY **

#43 Post by sysiphus » Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:32 pm

Strange. Given that W7 is still the absolute standard in the corporate world and offered on many business-oriented machines, it's hard to believe there's really enough willpower to try to drown that out/pretend otherwise. That said, I'm confident we'll see a BIG push to get people on W10, both in corporate and consumer spaces. It looks bad and probably costs more for Microsoft to have to play a dual-platform game.
They're pretty clearly moving towards the "software as a subscription/service" model, to which legacy-model W7 users are a major impediment.

ajkula66 wrote:Interestingly enough, two of my replies - to the same poster and pertaining to the same matter - have been deleted. Neither of them contained offensive language or misinformation or was even pertaining directly to Lenovo.

My post:
Voted my preferences. Whatever OS this machine - presuming that we get to see it in the first place - ends up shipping with, driver support for W7 is essential in my opinion.
other poster's reply:
Asking for support on such an old OS is a bit much. Perhaps it's time to move on.
In my reply to his reply I've stated that the W7 is still the name of the game in the corporate world and will be supported until 2020. Yet it got deleted both times.

Makes one wonder what else gets deleted...

They can have fun with their blog without me from now on. Not that it will matter to them one way or another in the least, but nevertheless...
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Re: RetroThinkPad survey #4 of 4 *** FINAL SURVEY **

#44 Post by coolcat37 » Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:43 pm

ajkula66 wrote:Interestingly enough, two of my replies - to the same poster and pertaining to the same matter - have been deleted.
That's pretty low-down from lenovo

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Re: RetroThinkPad survey #4 of 4 *** FINAL SURVEY **

#45 Post by ajkula66 » Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:47 pm

coolcat37 wrote:
ajkula66 wrote:Interestingly enough, two of my replies - to the same poster and pertaining to the same matter - have been deleted.
That's pretty low-down from lenovo
I'll take "low-down" when it makes sense. This time around it makes none, at least not to silly old me.
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Re: RetroThinkPad survey #4 of 4 *** FINAL SURVEY **

#46 Post by coolcat37 » Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:06 pm

ajkula66 wrote:I'll take "low-down" when it makes sense. This time around it makes none, at least not to silly old me.
Well, I went and checked the comments. You and your comments are still there. Either you made an error or lenovo is trying to stealthily weed out 'certain' opinions and flavours that they seem unfit. The latter could be true. I am quite sure they monitor these threads actively (if not, this whole ordeal would be a sham). If they deleted one of your comments that would be retarded. If they re-enabled your comments after seeing your comment here that would be even more worrying. It would be your word against theirs. You are absolutely sure they were deleted?

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Re: RetroThinkPad survey #4 of 4 *** FINAL SURVEY **

#47 Post by ajkula66 » Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:17 pm

coolcat37 wrote:You are absolutely sure they were deleted?
Yes.

EDIT: I've just re-checked myself and you're absolutely right, the comments - both of them - are back in the thread.

Let's blame an unknown software glitch, shall we... :roll:
Last edited by ajkula66 on Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: RetroThinkPad survey #4 of 4 *** FINAL SURVEY **

#48 Post by lead_org » Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:20 pm

i doubt they will delete your comments because you asked for Windows 7, since David also asked the OS preference within the survey about Windows 7.
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Re: RetroThinkPad survey #4 of 4 *** FINAL SURVEY **

#49 Post by coolcat37 » Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:23 pm

lead_org wrote:i doubt they will delete your comments because you asked for Windows 7, since David also asked the OS preference within the survey about Windows 7.
Well I am not really following this logic. It's not because someone or some organization asks about a certain thing that they support that thing

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Re: RetroThinkPad survey #4 of 4 *** FINAL SURVEY **

#50 Post by ajkula66 » Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:26 pm

lead_org wrote:i doubt they will delete your comments because you asked for Windows 7, since David also asked the OS preference within the survey about Windows 7.
I never implied that Mr. Hill had anything to do with it. Nor have I asked for the machine to be shipped with W7, just that the driver support for the OS in question is developed.

You, of all people, given your own experiences on the *early* Lenovo Forum should know how stuff gets moderated. Let's not go there.
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Re: RetroThinkPad survey #4 of 4 *** FINAL SURVEY **

#51 Post by JaneL » Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:32 pm

ajkula66 wrote: You, of all people, given your own experiences on the *early* Lenovo Forum should know how stuff gets moderated. Let's not go there.
I'm standing right here.
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Re: RetroThinkPad survey #4 of 4 *** FINAL SURVEY **

#52 Post by ajkula66 » Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:36 pm

JaneL wrote: I'm standing right here.
Hi Jane! :D

Our mutual friend knows *exactly* what I'm referring to. I'm not quite certain that you do.
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Re: RetroThinkPad survey #4 of 4 *** FINAL SURVEY **

#53 Post by RealBlackStuff » Thu Aug 06, 2015 5:44 am

I do, and Big Brother was one of the reasons I left that forum.
I was a "Guru" at the time.
Since then I have been degraded to all sorts of titles, currently "Token Ring", whatever "rank" that has on that atrociously ugly Lenovo forum.

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Re: RetroThinkPad survey #4 of 4 *** FINAL SURVEY **

#54 Post by JaneL » Thu Aug 06, 2015 8:09 am

ajkula66 wrote:Our mutual friend knows *exactly* what I'm referring to. I'm not quite certain that you do.
RealBlackStuff wrote:I do, and Big Brother was one of the reasons I left that forum.
I was a "Guru" at the time.
Since then I have been degraded to all sorts of titles, currently "Token Ring", whatever "rank" that has on that atrociously ugly Lenovo forum.
:roll:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5tRLjgdRYk
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Re: RetroThinkPad survey #4 of 4 *** FINAL SURVEY **

#55 Post by Norway Pad » Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:21 am

RealBlackStuff wrote:Since then I have been degraded to all sorts of titles, currently "Token Ring".
That's hilarious. Knowing how outdated Token Ring is, I would almost have seen that as an offense. Almost like if Bill degraded me from 'Thinkpadder' to 'i-series user'. :lol:
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Re: RetroThinkPad survey #4 of 4 *** FINAL SURVEY **

#56 Post by bgx » Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:46 am

any idea when the results will be posted by David Hill?

"Next week I’ll post a recap of the results and discuss where we are on the project so far."

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Re: RetroThinkPad survey #4 of 4 *** FINAL SURVEY **

#57 Post by JaneL » Fri Aug 07, 2015 8:29 am

Norway Pad wrote:
RealBlackStuff wrote:Since then I have been degraded to all sorts of titles, currently "Token Ring".
That's hilarious. Knowing how outdated Token Ring is, I would almost have seen that as an offense. Almost like if Bill degraded me from 'Thinkpadder' to 'i-series user'. :lol:
Good grief. Thin-skinned much? I named the different levels over there and used a history of computing theme that includes things like "What's DOS?", "TrackPoint Cap", "802.11n", "IEEE1394", "Bit Torrent", "Cloud Computing" and "Vacuum Tubes".

At this point, I'd like to see some of you "Rack Mounted". :jhem:
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Re: RetroThinkPad survey #4 of 4 *** FINAL SURVEY **

#58 Post by erik » Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:02 am

RealBlackStuff wrote:I do, and Big Brother was one of the reasons I left that forum.
I was a "Guru" at the time.
Since then I have been degraded to all sorts of titles, currently "Token Ring", whatever "rank" that has on that atrociously ugly Lenovo forum.
roles are based on participation.   by not participating regularly you were automatically downgraded by the system to a standard user role.   there was no collective vote or company conspiracy to "degrade" you.

if you want your "guru" role back, participate accordingly and perhaps you'll be voted back in.

jane created the rank nomenclature.   it's brilliant.   kids today have no idea what a "punch card" or "token ring" is but it's hilarious to us old-timers.   we might as well have some fun with it amongst all the everyday banter and complaints found on forums—this one included. ;)
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Re: RetroThinkPad survey #4 of 4 *** FINAL SURVEY **

#59 Post by RealBlackStuff » Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:10 am

Thanks for the info, but I have no interest to return there.

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Re: RetroThinkPad survey #4 of 4 *** FINAL SURVEY **

#60 Post by Norway Pad » Fri Aug 07, 2015 12:11 pm

JaneL wrote:Good grief. Thin-skinned much? I named the different levels over there and used a history of computing theme that includes things like "What's DOS?", "TrackPoint Cap", "802.11n", "IEEE1394", "Bit Torrent", "Cloud Computing" and "Vacuum Tubes".

At this point, I'd like to see some of you "Rack Mounted". :jhem:
Well, I'm sorry if I made fun of something that wasn't supposed to be funny. Let's leave it there.
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