Disappointed in Retro ThinkPad Survey 3

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jayton4
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Disappointed in Retro ThinkPad Survey 3

#1 Post by jayton4 » Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:19 am

Surveys 1 & 2 were exciting, thinking about the possibilities that may come. Survey 3 did not bring that same feeling. From the way the questions are worded in Survey 3, it seems that Lenovo doesn't anticipate the possibility of a thin & light machine that has a lot of power, ports, and upgradable. There are also no questions about durability or the magnesium roll cage that disappeared around the *40 series.

For processor, you can choose
Option A: A thicker system containing a Quad core i5 or i7 (I don't think Intel has EVER made a quad core mobile i5 processor, kind of weird to have an option that never existed) at a TDP of 47W, or
Option B: A thinner system with Intel's U series ultrabook processors at 15W.

The classic ThinkPads (T420s, X220, etc.) were able to remove 45W of heat and remain light, what happened to that capability?

For RAM, you can choose 1 slot for thin systems, or 2 slots for thick systems.

I don't want a thick T or W series, and I don't necessarily need a thin X1 Carbon. I basically want a new iteration of the T420s, lots of power, lots of ports, ultrabay battery, roll cage, separate touchpad buttons and under 4 pounds. Is that too much to ask?

I can give up Full size VGA and DP (or HDMI) video outputs for a single or dual mini-DisplayPort and then use adapters.

Also, why does this Retro ThinkPad have to be one or few models? Why can they not make all ThinkPads like ThinkPad fans like?

Here are the survey links:

Survey 1
http://youropinioncounts.lenovo.com/s/R ... d/survey1/
Survey 2
http://youropinioncounts.lenovo.com/s/87869/Survey2/
Survey 3
http://youropinioncounts.lenovo.com/s/98rtj45/Retro/S3/
jayton4
Current models/upgrades:
T410 2518X01- 8GB, Corsair Force GT 120GB
T410s 2901A3U- 8GB, Intel 6300 WiFi, Crucial m4 mSATA 256GB SSD w/ microSATA adapter
T420s 4174PPU- 16GB, Intel 520-series 7mm 180GB SSD, Crucial M550 512GB mSATA SSD, Intel 6300 WiFi
and a few classics in storage

Ibthink
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Re: Disappointed in Retro ThinkPad Survey 3

#2 Post by Ibthink » Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:36 am

There are also no questions about durability or the magnesium roll cage that disappeared around the *40 series.
Where do you get that from? The magnesium roll-cage is still around and more advanced than ever.
I don't think Intel has EVER made a quad core mobile i5 processor, kind of weird to have an option that never existed
They will, with Skylake.
Also, why does this Retro ThinkPad have to be one or few models? Why can they not make all ThinkPads like ThinkPad fans like?
Because Lenovo sells mostly to big corporations, not to fans, and the corporation mostly care that its cheap and durable, and has a docking-port, they don´t care much for little design details like status LEDs, or even keyboard layouts or the screen ratio.
IBM ThinkPad R50e | lenovo ThinkPad X301 | lenovo ThinkPad Z61t

hhhd1
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Re: Disappointed in Retro ThinkPad Survey 3

#3 Post by hhhd1 » Thu Aug 06, 2015 4:47 am

Ibthink wrote:
Also, why does this Retro ThinkPad have to be one or few models? Why can they not make all ThinkPads like ThinkPad fans like?
Because Lenovo sells mostly to big corporations, not to fans, and the corporation mostly care that its cheap and durable, and has a docking-port, they don´t care much for little design details like status LEDs, or even keyboard layouts or the screen ratio.
They will loose some of the big corporations too if they continue like that.
Not all the things that 'fans' wants are pointless and nobody else cares about them.
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Ibthink
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Re: Disappointed in Retro ThinkPad Survey 3

#4 Post by Ibthink » Thu Aug 06, 2015 10:47 am

Well, no, not all. That has shown with the Tx40 generation and the ClickPad, but this is an exception to the rule.
IBM ThinkPad R50e | lenovo ThinkPad X301 | lenovo ThinkPad Z61t

hhhd1
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Re: Disappointed in Retro ThinkPad Survey 3

#5 Post by hhhd1 » Fri Aug 07, 2015 8:06 am

IMO, The loss of market share in the enterprise market does not happen as fast as it happen for single users who buy retail.
But when it happen, it is unrecoverable, or could take a long time to recover.

When enterprises start getting comments from their employees about disappointment with the quality or that they want Apple or Dell instead, they could take time to response, and, they won't go back easily.
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ZaZ
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Re: Disappointed in Retro ThinkPad Survey 3

#6 Post by ZaZ » Sat Aug 08, 2015 3:27 am

jayton4 wrote:it seems that Lenovo doesn't anticipate the possibility of a thin & light machine that has a lot of power, ports, and upgradable.
I think most users with a thin and light are more interested in battery life than power or upgrades in my experience, though I'm sure there are users who want that stuff.
ProBook 470 G3

jayton4
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Re: Disappointed in Retro ThinkPad Survey 3

#7 Post by jayton4 » Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:52 am

Ibthink wrote:Where do you get that from? The magnesium roll-cage is still around and more advanced than ever.
I got that from viewing the HMM for those manuals and from the sales sheet on the website. I didn't see it mentioned or in the line drawings in the manual. I stand corrected and thanks for bringing that to my attention.
Ibthink wrote:They will, with Skylake.

Interesting info. That makes more sense to have it in the survey.
Ibthink wrote:Because Lenovo sells mostly to big corporations, not to fans, and the corporation mostly care that its cheap and durable, and has a docking-port, they don´t care much for little design details like status LEDs, or even keyboard layouts or the screen ratio.
I haven't seen the figures, but I have seen the reviews and comments forums and news postings, and I would be willing to bet that these decisions have caused a decline in sales.
jayton4
Current models/upgrades:
T410 2518X01- 8GB, Corsair Force GT 120GB
T410s 2901A3U- 8GB, Intel 6300 WiFi, Crucial m4 mSATA 256GB SSD w/ microSATA adapter
T420s 4174PPU- 16GB, Intel 520-series 7mm 180GB SSD, Crucial M550 512GB mSATA SSD, Intel 6300 WiFi
and a few classics in storage

jayton4
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Re: Disappointed in Retro ThinkPad Survey 3

#8 Post by jayton4 » Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:54 am

ZaZ wrote: I think most users with a thin and light are more interested in battery life than power or upgrades in my experience, though I'm sure there are users who want that stuff.
Ever since Sandy Bridge, it seems to me that even the high power notebooks are very power efficient at idle.
jayton4
Current models/upgrades:
T410 2518X01- 8GB, Corsair Force GT 120GB
T410s 2901A3U- 8GB, Intel 6300 WiFi, Crucial m4 mSATA 256GB SSD w/ microSATA adapter
T420s 4174PPU- 16GB, Intel 520-series 7mm 180GB SSD, Crucial M550 512GB mSATA SSD, Intel 6300 WiFi
and a few classics in storage

rjwilmsi
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Re: Disappointed in Retro ThinkPad Survey 3

#9 Post by rjwilmsi » Wed Aug 19, 2015 5:26 pm

jayton4 wrote:it seems that Lenovo doesn't anticipate the possibility of a thin & light machine that has a lot of power, ports, and upgradable.
Well, that's what I would want, and having completed all the surveys I also got the impression that the focus was towards larger machines. There were questions about device thickness and screen size but not one about overall weight.

Hopefully, if it goes ahead Lenovo will produce a range of machines, say a light X, a 'best of everything' T and a 'full power but heavier' W, so we'll have a choice. I appreciate some users may be running heavy stuff locally so require a portable desktop W system with 32 GB RAM, Quadro graphics, large displays etc. and be happy to carry 3 kg for it. I can also appreciate those who want as much CPU power as possible within a reasonable ~2 kg limit so go for a T series. However, I see a laptop as needing to be portable by definition, so X series and under 1.5 kg is what I use.

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Re: Disappointed in Retro ThinkPad Survey 3

#10 Post by ansible212 » Thu Aug 20, 2015 2:58 am

I agree about powerful, thin and light.

I have just purchased a T430 for a friend on eBay (i5 with Intel SSD, absolutely mint condition, warranty until October 2016).

However it's just too big.

Give me an X-series any day (such as my i7 X220) - small enough to use on a train, in a cafe, or on your lap for extended periods - and via the MiniDock (which I prefer to Ultrabases), desktop levels of connectivity and convenience at home (dual monitors, multiple USB etc)
X1C 5th Gen : WQHD : i7-7500U : 16GB : 256GB NVMe SSD : ThinkPad Thunderbolt 3 Dock : 2 x HP LP2475w : Win 10 64bit

X220 : Premium HD : i7-2640M : 8GB : 256GB Samsung 850 Pro : Mini Dock Series 3 with USB 3.0

X200s : WXGA : C2D SL9600 : 4GB : 256GB Samsung 830

lain
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Re: Disappointed in Retro ThinkPad Survey 3

#11 Post by lain » Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:46 am

ansible212 wrote:I agree about powerful, thin and light.
What's your definition of powerful? If you go the quad core route you cannot really go thin and light at the same time if you want to cool the quad core down properly. You just cannot cheat physics in that way. The only other option is a 15W U-CPU still okay performance wise for some but not really powerful in any meaningful definition of the word. Quad vs ULV are the only two otions Intel offers at the moment and in the near future (Skylake). So what's Lenovo going to do? Thin, light and not really powerful owing to the ULV CPU or thin, light and throttling all the time? :roll:

If you want thin and light all you will get with the Retro is just another Ultrabook, one with a 7-row keyboard and some other ThinkPad features, but even in the best case a mashine about as or only a little more powerful than your current X220. Is it really worth to make such an upgrade? If you need the improved GPU performance or battery life or new ports maybe otherwise not really. But to each his own. :)

rambo47
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Re: Disappointed in Retro ThinkPad Survey 3

#12 Post by rambo47 » Thu Aug 20, 2015 2:17 pm

I'm more about thin/light over power, so long as we're not talking about a Celeron processor. The Core i5/7 processors are plenty powerful enough for me and my individual needs. I don't need a Yoga-thin laptop, but I certainly don't want to lug around my W500 on a daily basis either.

If all I wanted was pure power I'd go with something like the new P70: https://djpdld25uved3.cloudfront.net/wp ... _Final.pdf
Yowza, that's a lot of power!!
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Yoga 3 Pro, 13.3" touchscreen, CoreM 5Y70 @ 1.2GHz, 8GB RAM, Intel Broadwell-U Integrated Graphics, Linux Mint 17.3 (64-bit)
ThinkPad W500, 15.4" WSXGA+, T9400 @ 2.53 GHz, 8GB RAM, ATI Mobility FireGL V5700 / Intel GMA 4500MHD, Windows 10 (64-bit)

ansible212
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Re: Disappointed in Retro ThinkPad Survey 3

#13 Post by ansible212 » Thu Aug 20, 2015 3:27 pm

lain wrote:
ansible212 wrote:I agree about powerful, thin and light.
What's your definition of powerful? If you go the quad core route you cannot really go thin and light at the same time if you want to cool the quad core down properly. You just cannot cheat physics in that way. The only other option is a 15W U-CPU still okay performance wise for some but not really powerful in any meaningful definition of the word. Quad vs ULV are the only two otions Intel offers at the moment and in the near future (Skylake). So what's Lenovo going to do? Thin, light and not really powerful owing to the ULV CPU or thin, light and throttling all the time? :roll:

If you want thin and light all you will get with the Retro is just another Ultrabook, one with a 7-row keyboard and some other ThinkPad features, but even in the best case a mashine about as or only a little more powerful than your current X220. Is it really worth to make such an upgrade? If you need the improved GPU performance or battery life or new ports maybe otherwise not really. But to each his own. :)
I meant thin and light, as opposed to big and bulky. And TBH, my X220 has more than enough power for me, even today, so an updated X220 with up-to-date technologies out of the box (w.g. AC wifi, 4G) would suit me just fine.
X1C 5th Gen : WQHD : i7-7500U : 16GB : 256GB NVMe SSD : ThinkPad Thunderbolt 3 Dock : 2 x HP LP2475w : Win 10 64bit

X220 : Premium HD : i7-2640M : 8GB : 256GB Samsung 850 Pro : Mini Dock Series 3 with USB 3.0

X200s : WXGA : C2D SL9600 : 4GB : 256GB Samsung 830

PandorasThinkpad
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Re: Disappointed in Retro ThinkPad Survey 3

#14 Post by PandorasThinkpad » Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:21 am

Hi!

I hope to get a mixture out of X300/ X301 and T410s/ T420s....mixture....because the X300/ X301 have had no mechanical docking port...and the T410s/ T420s have much to less ports...

so i just hope and like to see...what the result will be...if there will be such an model....

Kindly,

PAnDoRa
My favorite Thinkpad:
T23 with 1,2 GHz PIII-M, CCFL SXGA+ (LG, 46L2495) (will now get LED Mod),
X200s, SL9400, 8GB Ram, AFFS (HV121WX4-120)
R500 with ATI Graphics, P8400, 8GB Ram and WSXGA+ (LP164W02(TL)(10))[if it once will get WUXGA?!]
T430s with I7, 16GB Ram and FHD Mod

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