So Who Actually Ordered?

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dr_st
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Re: So Who Actually Ordered?

#61 Post by dr_st » Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:11 am

w0qj wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:28 am
I believe that it is just the same (American) keyboard, same as photos all over the internet, no difference.
There was a closeup shot of the [Enter]/[Backspace]/[Shift] keys, same rectangular shape as other internet web TP25 pictures.
Honestly, with TP25 going down the "no customization" route, I don't seriously expect ThinkPad would do yet another regional keyboard just for Asia!

Hope this helps ;)
It helps. :)

The pictures are the same all over the internet, even the German site has the same US keyboard pictured, but obviously the German layout is different, as it always has been:
https://www3.lenovo.com/de/de/laptops/t ... 2TP2TTTP25

So I'm curious to learn what the actual keyboard offerings in Hong Kong have been historically. I understood that typically it's either the US English keyboard, or the Taiwan Chinese keyboard (which seems to have the same basic layout). Is that true?

Lenovo's plans at this point are a bit moot. The Thinkpad 25 FRU BOM lists localized parts (keyboards, power bricks) for 13 different countries. However, as of now, the laptop has not yet been offered in all these countries.

More interestingly, Lenovo Parts Lookup allows you to look up parts by FRU. If you input any FRU between 01HW487 and 01HW526, it will come up with a valid keyboard part, with a whole lot of different layouts, even those which at the moment do not appear in the FRU BOM. It remains to be seen whether Lenovo actually intends to manufacture these parts (and perhaps, offer the Thinkpad 25 in additional locales), or whether these are just 'reserved' with no particular plans attached.
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Re: So Who Actually Ordered?

#62 Post by Puppy » Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:14 am

dr_st wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:11 am
It remains to be seen whether Lenovo actually intends to manufacture these parts (and perhaps, offer the Thinkpad 25 in additional locales), or whether these are just 'reserved' with no particular plans attached.
I don't think Lenovo want to do anything above those 5000 boxes.
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Re: So Who Actually Ordered?

#63 Post by Ibthink » Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:27 am

Thinkpad4by3 wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:00 pm
Yes, the "proper" rollcages were long gone. I've replaced the W700 motherboard and I think about 50% of the weight goes to the solid chunk of metal. I opened up a T430s and found magnesium parts in there. An **40 machine is like the T4x machines, without IBM's superior engineering to keep it together. Those machines were still quite solid without it, though the chips coming off kinda sucked(blame the lead free solder paste).
Not sure what you mean by "proper" roll-cages (roll-cages is only a marketing term BTW - the technical description is a structural frame).

All the current normal models (not X1 etc., they have a different design) still have magnesium structure frames. Of course, the form has changed. The T430s for example had a Magnesium base unit (similar to the X-Series), but it also had a thin Magnesium frame that is part of the palmrest structure. By making it part of the palmrest structure instead of having both parts separate, the system becomes more stable overall. This was a new solution first introduced with the X300. (if you are interested in reading more about it: http://blog.lenovo.com/images/legacy/fi ... _Vol5e.pdf )

Current models like the T570, T470 or ThinkPad 25 have a Magnesium frame in a similar fashion. Its bonded to the palmrest, which makes for a very stable top-deck and eliminates palmrest and keyboard flex, problems many ThinkPads of the older generations had. The palmrest is usually made out of plastic and uncoated (coated on models like the T440s or T450s) and the base-cover (which also supports the system structure) is either made out of Glas-Fiber-Plastic or Magnesium. You can see such a palmrest-structure-frame assembly here (from the T460): https://thinkspot.de/ersatzteile/gehaeu ... -t460?c=13

Newer, thinner models like the T460s or T470s ditch the plastic palmrest and just have a 100 % metal base-unit, so they are more like an X-Series: https://thinkspot.de/ersatzteile/gehaeu ... t460s?c=13

Meanwhile, the P-Series has a more traditional construction, with a dedicated Magnesium frame thats separate from both base-unit and palmrest (you can see it here: https://www.lenovoservicetraining.com/w ... 1&id=33504). P50/P51 and P70/P71 additionally have a Magnesium base-unit, which makes these system rock-solid all around. My P51 is much better build than my R60, for example and that had a rock-solid base as well.

All around, I don´t think that any of these system have an "improper" construction. Sure, many of them are thinner now, because thats where the market went. But my T440s is still going strong 4 years after I bought it and its build-quality and material quality was much better than the T420.
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Re: So Who Actually Ordered?

#64 Post by RealBlackStuff » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:29 am

This is the ONLY picture I could find of the large Enter-key:
Image

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Re: So Who Actually Ordered?

#65 Post by w0qj » Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:48 am

<<Warning: Regional ThinkPad information that may be irrelevant to ThinkPad users of other regions>>

Many thanks for your question!
In HK, we always ordered English version of Windows, with packaging in English/Chinese.

The actual ThinkPad laptop keyboard is just the "American" keyboard, with rectangular Enter/Shift/Backspace keys.
Also, ordering this for way 10+ years always gave me a 100% "American" keyboard (the same one on Lenovo/ThinkPad URL link as below).
ie: Just English A/B/C, no Chinese on the keyboard (which presumably what you wish for!).
dr_st wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:11 am
w0qj wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:28 am
I believe that it is just the same (American) keyboard, same as photos all over the internet, no difference.
There was a closeup shot of the [Enter]/[Backspace]/[Shift] keys, same rectangular shape as other internet web TP25 pictures.
Honestly, with TP25 going down the "no customization" route, I don't seriously expect ThinkPad would do yet another regional keyboard just for Asia! ...
...So I'm curious to learn what the actual keyboard offerings in Hong Kong have been historically. I understood that typically it's either the US English keyboard, or the Taiwan Chinese keyboard (which seems to have the same basic layout). Is that true?
...
Daily Driver: X1 Carbon 4th Gen (X1C4): i7-6600U 2.6GHz; 16GB DDR3 1866 MHz; 1TB PCIe-NVMe SSD; 14" WQHD 2560x1440; LTE EM7455 Mobile Broadband; Win7 Pro 64bit
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Re: So Who Actually Ordered?

#66 Post by dr_st » Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:29 am

w0qj wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:48 am
The actual ThinkPad laptop keyboard is just the "American" keyboard, with rectangular Enter/Shift/Backspace keys.
Also, ordering this for way 10+ years always gave me a 100% "American" keyboard (the same one on Lenovo/ThinkPad URL link as below).
Yes, I figured as much from looking at the keyboard FRUs. :)
w0qj wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:48 am
ie: Just English A/B/C, no Chinese on the keyboard (which presumably what you wish for!).
Actually, the extra symbols on the keyboard I care less about; just the placement of the English alphabet and the shape of the auxiliary keys. :)
Current: X220 4291-4BG, T410 2537-R46, T60 1952-F76, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G
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Re: So Who Actually Ordered?

#67 Post by theterminator93 » Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:57 am

If anyone's interested, I copied the 25th anniversary desktop wallpaper to my server. You can download it here... It's 3600x1080.

http://wannerweb.ddns.net/Public/Photos ... kPad25.jpg
Daily: T25 | W520 i7-2860QM·Quadro 2000m·IPS FHD | T420 i7-2640M·NVS 4200m·IPS FHD | X220 i7-2640M | T601F T9900·NVS 140M·IPS UXGA
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Re: So Who Actually Ordered?

#68 Post by marsman2020 » Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:14 pm

I ordered. I want the non-chicklet keyboard in a modern machine.

I think Lenovo did the best they could within the constraints they had - a product that wasn't part of the original roadmap, limited edition, at a price that people could actually buy, with as many of the things from the survey as they could fit in. As an engineer I know that I often want to build the most badass thing possible, but in the end every project is a balance of technical requirements, cost, and schedule.

I hope that by buying a TP25 it will support the idea of more 7-row machines in the future. Perhaps with a 16:10 or 3:2 screen.
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Re: So Who Actually Ordered?

#69 Post by Raidriar » Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:16 pm

I have a problem with the intel -u CPUS, as they suck at holding turbo clockspeeds as compared to H and HQ varient chips. At that price point, they really should have put a full featured chip in there.

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Re: So Who Actually Ordered?

#70 Post by RealBlackStuff » Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:07 am

marsman2020 wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:14 pm
I think Lenovo did the best they could within the constraints they had
...
but in the end every project is a balance of technical requirements, cost, and schedule.
Lenovo did the WORST they could.
Their only constraint were the penny-pinching brainless beancounters that seem to rule there.
- Lots of requirements, only 1 fulfilled
- cost cutting left, right and center, and then some more...
- schedule: they had 2 years (!) to come up with this miserable solution
I don't blame David Hill for walking off!
I wouldn't want to be connected to such a disaster either!
:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

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Re: So Who Actually Ordered?

#71 Post by Summilux » Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:52 am

RealBlackStuff wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:07 am
marsman2020 wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:14 pm
I think Lenovo did the best they could within the constraints they had
...
but in the end every project is a balance of technical requirements, cost, and schedule.
Lenovo did the WORST they could.
Their only constraint were the penny-pinching brainless beancounters that seem to rule there.
- Lots of requirements, only 1 fulfilled
- cost cutting left, right and center, and then some more...
- schedule: they had 2 years (!) to come up with this miserable solution
I don't blame David Hill for walking off!
I wouldn't want to be connected to such a disaster either!
:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
Amen.

Let's not play along their damage control rhetoric and believe in their corporate lies, here. They didn't even implement status lights. The incompetent management just didn't try.
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Re: So Who Actually Ordered?

#72 Post by marsman2020 » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:58 am

Raidriar wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:16 pm
I have a problem with the intel -u CPUS, as they suck at holding turbo clockspeeds as compared to H and HQ varient chips. At that price point, they really should have put a full featured chip in there.
Since the TP25 has the larger cooler for the dGPU, Notebookcheck reports that the CPU runs at the full 3.4-3.5 GHz turbo boost speed while running Prime95.
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Re: So Who Actually Ordered?

#73 Post by theterminator93 » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:41 am

marsman2020 wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:58 am
Raidriar wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:16 pm
I have a problem with the intel -u CPUS, as they suck at holding turbo clockspeeds as compared to H and HQ varient chips. At that price point, they really should have put a full featured chip in there.
Since the TP25 has the larger cooler for the dGPU, Notebookcheck reports that the CPU runs at the full 3.4-3.5 GHz turbo boost speed while running Prime95.
Testing this on mine just now, with 2-4 threads, it runs at 3.3 GHz. With 1 thread, it runs at 3.5 GHz.
Daily: T25 | W520 i7-2860QM·Quadro 2000m·IPS FHD | T420 i7-2640M·NVS 4200m·IPS FHD | X220 i7-2640M | T601F T9900·NVS 140M·IPS UXGA
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Re: So Who Actually Ordered?

#74 Post by Raidriar » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:30 pm

I'm more curious to see if it can hold turbo during say, a video encoding process. Video encoding has always been my benchmark for CPU stability and performance.

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Re: So Who Actually Ordered?

#75 Post by theterminator93 » Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:03 pm

What's your software of choice? I've got Premiere CS6 installed on it; I can also try something in VirtualDub (e.g. encoding to H.264 or XviD).
Daily: T25 | W520 i7-2860QM·Quadro 2000m·IPS FHD | T420 i7-2640M·NVS 4200m·IPS FHD | X220 i7-2640M | T601F T9900·NVS 140M·IPS UXGA
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Re: So Who Actually Ordered?

#76 Post by JaneL » Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:25 pm

I ordered one, and it came last Wednesday.

The keyboard layout and feel is wonderful.
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Re: So Who Actually Ordered?

#77 Post by rjoseph » Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:16 am

I actually ordered two ThinkPad 25s. One of them was shipped in its retail packaging [against my request] and arrived damaged, so I requested an RMA and got rid of it. I ordered a second and requested that it not be shipped in its retail packaging, which it was. However, upon shaking the box one could see and hear it moving around, so I refused delivery and sent it back. Those laptops would likely be damaged and have multiple issues through the years, and I have no desire to deal with the issues that would likely arise due to the cheapness of Lenovo senior management not packaging the boxes well and shipping the retail box inside another box [that likely saved a few pennies on a computer I spent $1,900 for]. I was even told by customer service agents and my salesman [all frontline employees I dealt with were very helpful] that they tried but the shipping department would not listen to them. I encourage everyone to check the packaging of and make sure it is sent correctly given the issues I had with the packaging and shipping. Given my awful experiences it is very unlikely I will buy another Lenovo PC or product again, especially directly from Lenovo. I do have about 10 proper non-chiclet USB keyboards [55Y9003] that I purchased right after they were discontinued, and I plan to use those with tablets and PCs. Hopefully, those extra keyboards I purchased will last me the rest of my life.

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Re: So Who Actually Ordered?

#78 Post by Olangu » Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:12 am

JaneL wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:25 pm
I ordered one, and it came last Wednesday.

The keyboard layout and feel is wonderful.
Probably shall not drop this bomb, as more people might start seeing it and get irritated.

I might be slightly OCD...
BUT the misplaced B on the keyboard is getting me twitchy.

Anyone know if there's labels you can buy so that I can place the B in the correct spot?

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Re: So Who Actually Ordered?

#79 Post by RealBlackStuff » Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:24 am


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Re: So Who Actually Ordered?

#80 Post by w0qj » Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:44 am

It might depend on the region's shipping partner, might not be Lenovo's shipping dept per se.

In our region, they used a courier, who did put in their own courier's outer carton (with adequate padding), and with Lenovo's own intact carton/notebook inside.
So our X1C3 unit was very well protected.
Also ordered direct from Lenovo/ThinkPad regional website!
rjoseph wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:16 am
I actually ordered two ThinkPad 25s. One of them was shipped in its retail packaging [against my request] and arrived damaged, so I requested an RMA and got rid of it. I ordered a second and requested that it not be shipped in its retail packaging, which it was. However, upon shaking the box one could see and hear it moving around, so I refused delivery and sent it back. Those laptops would likely be damaged and have multiple issues through the years, and I have no desire to deal with the issues that would likely arise due to the cheapness of Lenovo senior management not packaging the boxes well and shipping the retail box inside another box [that likely saved a few pennies on a computer I spent $1,900 for]. I was even told by customer service agents and my salesman [all frontline employees I dealt with were very helpful] that they tried but the shipping department would not listen to them. I encourage everyone to check the packaging of and make sure it is sent correctly given the issues I had with the packaging and shipping. Given my awful experiences it is very unlikely I will buy another Lenovo PC or product again, especially directly from Lenovo. I do have about 10 proper non-chiclet USB keyboards [55Y9003] that I purchased right after they were discontinued, and I plan to use those with tablets and PCs. Hopefully, those extra keyboards I purchased will last me the rest of my life.
Daily Driver: X1 Carbon 4th Gen (X1C4): i7-6600U 2.6GHz; 16GB DDR3 1866 MHz; 1TB PCIe-NVMe SSD; 14" WQHD 2560x1440; LTE EM7455 Mobile Broadband; Win7 Pro 64bit
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Re: So Who Actually Ordered?

#81 Post by theterminator93 » Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:37 am

I wonder what differences there are in packing? Mine arrived pretty well packed. There was of course the black box with the laptop inside it, which was inside a typical brown cardboard box decorated with ThinkPad 25 branding. That box was/is about 3 times the dimensions of the box with the laptop inside, with some extruded foam inserts on either side of the laptop's box which were about 1" thick on all sides. So there was a pretty large cushion in there.
Last edited by theterminator93 on Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: So Who Actually Ordered?

#82 Post by marsman2020 » Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:23 am

theterminator93 wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:37 am
I wonder what differences there are in packing? Mine arrived pretty well packed. There was of course the black box with the laptop inside it, which was inside a typical brown cardboard box decorated with ThinkPad 25 branding. That box was/is about 3 times the dimensions of the box with the laptop inside, with some extruded foam inserts on either side of the laptop's box which were about 3" thick on all sides. So there was a pretty large cushion in there.
I had no problem with the packaging on my machine. It's in the center of the black box, in a compartment the size of the laptop which is in foam in the outer cardboard box. That's about the best way to package something for shipping, there's no way it can get 'poked' and it also can't slide around.....

Maybe if you shook the hell out of the box you might hear the power adapter sliding around in its little compartment, but not the laptop.
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Re: So Who Actually Ordered?

#83 Post by gofishus » Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:07 pm

I also got mine and have a review here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRV4de6CIi0 and I opened up the back for you guys to take a look. There is no WWAN on the US models. There is an empty DIMM slot and a 16GB module in the other one so can be upgraded to 32GB RAM. The SSD is an M.2 even though it looks like a 2.5" caddy.

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Re: So Who Actually Ordered?

#84 Post by Olangu » Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:21 pm

gofishus wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:07 pm
I also got mine and have a review here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRV4de6CIi0 and I opened up the back for you guys to take a look. There is no WWAN on the US models. There is an empty DIMM slot and a 16GB module in the other one so can be upgraded to 32GB RAM. The SSD is an M.2 even though it looks like a 2.5" caddy.
People on reddit.com/r/thinkpad have been able to get Lenovo US to send them a missing WWAN-module. You should try it out.
My Nordic one had the WWAN.

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Re: So Who Actually Ordered?

#85 Post by w0qj » Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:43 am

It's very likely the same WWAN module as the one used by T470.

So you can contact a Lenovo partner to order one ;)
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Re: So Who Actually Ordered?

#86 Post by Dro » Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:03 am

Just an FYI, I called out of curiosity a lenovo service center I used to work with, for now at least you can only get spare parts for the t25 only if you can give them a serial number from a t25 machine,but at least they confirmed it's theoretically possible to order the palmrest and keyboard, it looks like lenovo is trying to keep a tight lid on this one.

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Re: So Who Actually Ordered?

#87 Post by MBG0001 » Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:34 pm

Olangu wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:21 pm
gofishus wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:07 pm
I also got mine and have a review here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRV4de6CIi0 and I opened up the back for you guys to take a look. There is no WWAN on the US models. There is an empty DIMM slot and a 16GB module in the other one so can be upgraded to 32GB RAM. The SSD is an M.2 even though it looks like a 2.5" caddy.
People on reddit.com/r/thinkpad have been able to get Lenovo US to send them a missing WWAN-module. You should try it out.
My Nordic one had the WWAN.
I think my North American version has a WWAN slot. I'll take pix this weekend when I upgrade the SSD.

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Re: So Who Actually Ordered?

#88 Post by MBG0001 » Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:36 pm

marsman2020 wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:23 am
theterminator93 wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:37 am
I wonder what differences there are in packing? Mine arrived pretty well packed. There was of course the black box with the laptop inside it, which was inside a typical brown cardboard box decorated with ThinkPad 25 branding. That box was/is about 3 times the dimensions of the box with the laptop inside, with some extruded foam inserts on either side of the laptop's box which were about 3" thick on all sides. So there was a pretty large cushion in there.
I had no problem with the packaging on my machine. It's in the center of the black box, in a compartment the size of the laptop which is in foam in the outer cardboard box. That's about the best way to package something for shipping, there's no way it can get 'poked' and it also can't slide around.....

Maybe if you shook the hell out of the box you might hear the power adapter sliding around in its little compartment, but not the laptop.
The shipping has to be a regional issues. My presentation box had a brown cardboard box around it, fitted inside a larger box with hard foam offsets. (North America shipped to Virginia).

Ibthink
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Re: So Who Actually Ordered?

#89 Post by Ibthink » Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:37 am

There seems to be a second batch of ThinkPad 25 units available in the USA and Canada now: https://www3.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/t ... hinkPad_25
IBM ThinkPad R50e | lenovo ThinkPad X301 | lenovo ThinkPad Z61t

dr_st
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Re: So Who Actually Ordered?

#90 Post by dr_st » Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:52 am

Nice, but still the same specs (same model type too, I think). I'm hoping for a QHD revision. :)
Current: X220 4291-4BG, T410 2537-R46, T60 1952-F76, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G
Collectibles: T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X32 (IPS Screen)
Retired: X61 7673-V2V, A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad
Past: Z61t 9440-A23, T60 2623-D3U, X32 2884-M5U

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