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To T25 or Frankenpad?

Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:46 am
by Cooler22
My times with a Macbook are coming to an end and I need to get a new work computer. I was considering the T25 but it's honestly just rebranded with a different keyboard and in limited stock. I am considering buying it as a future investment but honestly I don't know. The newer hardware is nice but 51nb can do that for me as well but I'd like backwards compatibility with my operating system, and having a frankenpad is just cooler AND had drivers from XP all the way to Windows 10.

So should I T25 or T60 Frankenpad?

Re: To T25 or Frankenpad?

Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:58 am
by Thinkpad4by3
Depends on your workload. If you need raw CPU and GPU power, the T25 is the choice to make. If you make word docs and would like a big screen to view them on, a frankenpad will suit well.

Re: To T25 or Frankenpad?

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:30 am
by ZaZ
Given that the T60 is now 10+ years old, I'd say go for the T25. Or better yet, get the lighter T470s, which offers the much improved WQHD screen.

Re: To T25 or Frankenpad?

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:17 am
by gma
I've been having exactly the same dilemma (and am also leaving Macs behind).

I decided to explore the frankenpad route, as an experiment prior to deciding whether or not I really needed a T470, an X1 or a T25.

I found a couple of UXGA T60p's going cheap online, so picked them up.

Yesterday I got a suitable T61 donor with a 2.6GHz CPU, 8GB of RAM and a fast Samsung Evo SSD. As far as I'm aware, there's not an awful lot you can do to make a T601f faster than that without getting into some of the more advanced mods.

I saw the T61 running Windows 10 before I bought it, and it seemed really quite quick. I've since installed Linux on it, so am able to make a direct comparison to the performance of my X230.

The X230 (a 2.9GHz i7) is a hell of a lot quicker in practice, and I can tell just by using my desktop apps. I'm currently unsure whether or not I'll be able to work effectively on the T601f. We will see.

For context, I'm a developer, and sometimes need to wait for tasks that take several minutes to run. If they take twice as long as they otherwise might, that's a problem. If I wrote documents all day I'd be happy enough to wait the second or two here and there while it launched apps.

Also, both UXGA screens are unable to produce white. They're significantly off colour, and white is more like a very pale yellow, as if they're permanently in some kind of night mode. When reading up on the T601f on this forum, I didn't really pick up on this problem, and I think that was partly because I was reading a lot of old posts (when there would have been more screens around that hadn't degraded like this).

Your eyes get a bit used to the colours and I'm hoping I might not notice it too much when working with text, but the problem is very obvious if you use a yellowed UXGA next to another screen. Bottom line - if you do any work that requires accurate colour, I can't see an old UXGA screen being the way forward.

A friend of mine made a great observation this week; 4:3 monitors (17" and 20") are still available, and aren't that expensive. I may look into hooking my X230 into one of these.

Re: To T25 or Frankenpad?

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:42 am
by dr_st
gma wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:17 am
A friend of mine made a great observation this week; 4:3 monitors (17" and 20") are still available, and aren't that expensive. I may look into hooking my X230 into one of these.
Better yet - a 24" WUXGA. Same vertical space, more horizontal space, and if you insist on 4:3, you can always letterbox it (just find a good monitor that supports letterboxing). I love my DELL U2410. :D

Re: To T25 or Frankenpad?

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:16 am
by Thinkpad4by3
I found a deal a few years ago. Dell 2412M IPS 1920x1200 monitors. 160$. It was such a good deal it actually managed its way to the front of SlickDeals!

Re: To T25 or Frankenpad?

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:55 am
by RealBlackStuff
gma wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:17 am
Also, both UXGA screens are unable to produce white. They're significantly off colour, and white is more like a very pale yellow, as if they're permanently in some kind of night mode. When reading up on the T601f on this forum, I didn't really pick up on this problem, and I think that was partly because I was reading a lot of old posts.
See if you can get a LED UXGA screen (BoeHydis HV150UX2-100), let me do a LED-mod and you'll have your whites back!

Re: To T25 or Frankenpad?

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:59 am
by gma
dr_st wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:42 am
Better yet - a 24" WUXGA. Same vertical space, more horizontal space, and if you insist on 4:3, you can always letterbox it (just find a good monitor that supports letterboxing). I love my DELL U2410. :D
Interesting thought. I used to have an Ultrasharp U2713MH (27 inches, 2560x1440). I didn't love it, but I do recall you could rotate it to a portrait orientation. Sadly it was far too tall to be particularly useful that way round…

Re: To T25 or Frankenpad?

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:19 am
by jdk
gma wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:17 am

A friend of mine made a great observation this week; 4:3 monitors (17" and 20") are still available, and aren't that expensive. I may look into hooking my X230 into one of these.
Both Dell and HP still sell brand new 5:4 1024p IPS displays right on their main websites. I have a couple of the Dells which I purchases new $80/ea and they aren’t bad.

I haven’t seen a new 1600x1200 display in several years.

Re: To T25 or Frankenpad?

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:35 am
by dr_st
jdk wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:19 am
Both Dell and HP still sell brand new 5:4 1024p IPS displays right on their main websites. I have a couple of the Dells which I purchases new $80/ea and they aren’t bad.
Do they? Which models?

Re: To T25 or Frankenpad?

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:02 am
by Thinkpad4by3
jdk wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:19 am
gma wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:17 am

A friend of mine made a great observation this week; 4:3 monitors (17" and 20") are still available, and aren't that expensive. I may look into hooking my X230 into one of these.
Both Dell and HP still sell brand new 5:4 1024p IPS displays right on their main websites. I have a couple of the Dells which I purchases new $80/ea and they aren’t bad.

I haven’t seen a new 1600x1200 display in several years.
Why? A 1080p is better. There is more vertical and a hige amount more horizontal.

Re: To T25 or Frankenpad?

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:06 am
by jdk
dr_st wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:35 am
jdk wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:19 am
Both Dell and HP still sell brand new 5:4 1024p IPS displays right on their main websites. I have a couple of the Dells which I purchases new $80/ea and they aren’t bad.
Do they? Which models?
Dell P1914s

HP ProDisplay P17A
HP ProDisplay P19A
HP EliteDisplay E190i

All are 1280x1024.

Re: To T25 or Frankenpad?

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:20 am
by Thinkpad4by3
They still make medical monitors 4:3

1mp:1280x1024
2mp:1600x1200
3mp:2048x1536
5mp:2560x2048

Search 5mp color monitors. Youll pass out from the price tag.

Re: To T25 or Frankenpad?

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:23 am
by RealBlackStuff
Only 2mp and 3mp are 4:3
1mp and 5mp are 5:4

Re: To T25 or Frankenpad?

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:24 am
by Puppy

Re: To T25 or Frankenpad?

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:28 am
by Thinkpad4by3
Close enough? Its a 9% difference.

Re: To T25 or Frankenpad?

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:31 am
by Thinkpad4by3
I didnt think I would ever say this but too much vertical resolution.

I think the good happy medium is a 3440x1440 display. That approximates 2 1720x1440 displays. Better than 2x 1600x1200 and good for watching movies. Best of both worlds?

Re: To T25 or Frankenpad?

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:40 am
by theterminator93
One thing I ought to point out is the huge desparity now in performance vs. battery life as something to also consider.

My T601f has had a T9900 modded in, which is only about 60% as fast in single threaded operations as the i7-7500u in the T25 - from a multithreaded perspective, it's only about 40% as fast. The T9500 is only 55% and 35%, respectively. Then let's consider GPU performance. I have the NVS 140m in my FrankenPad - which is a paltry 7% as powerful as the 940MX in the T25. Intel variants of the FrankenPad will fare much worse.

The T601f also uses a LOT more power than the T25. I have the 9 cell in the T601f which holds 90% of its new design capacity, and I struggle to get 3 hours of real world battery life on it. If I install a 3 cell ultrabay battery I'll get 4. The T25 gets 7-8 hours easily, if conserving then double digits.

All this has a large part to factor in to how much longer they will stay relevant in today's web content driven world.

So in the end, while these considerations shouldn't be your only considerations when choosing which model to get, they should certainly be on the list!

Re: To T25 or Frankenpad?

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:55 pm
by Thinkpad4by3
Well, that is a small price to pay for a nice BIG display that has more than "3" vertical pixels!

Re: To T25 or Frankenpad?

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:10 pm
by dr_st
jdk wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:06 am
Dell P1914s

HP ProDisplay P17A
HP ProDisplay P19A
HP EliteDisplay E190i

All are 1280x1024.
Nice. P17A and P19A are actually TN, according to specs. The others are indeed IPS, including the P1917s (successor of P1914s).

Re: To T25 or Frankenpad?

Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:51 pm
by mario24601
Hi all, was also considering a T25 as first thinkpad....what model would you recommend for entry into thinkpad world? I was thinking a frankenpad, since I really miss having a 4:3 screen, or x230 or t430s....basically any thing. I would use for surfing web and some media watching. I dont use for gaming or anything intensive. I do want something with good screen, viewing angles and clarity. Thanks, appreciate any advice you can give.

Re: To T25 or Frankenpad?

Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:24 am
by w0qj
Hey mario24601,

A warm welcome to the world of ThinkPads!

If you are looking for a notebook for browsing and media watching, then any brand of notebook computer would do!

However, if you wish for a quality notebook that can last you 5+ years down the road, then ThinkPads are for you!
ThinkPads are slightly more expensive, but if you amortize your costs over 5 years then it may be worth it!
Especially if you upgrade to SSD and max out your RAM 3-5 years after ThinkPad purchase...


Anyways, back to your question, since you are already quoting X-series and T-series: Suggest you buy a brand new ThinkPad for best initial experience!

The key questions for you to ask yourself are:
1) Do I plan to view this indoors all/most the time?
2) Do I plan to keep this notebook computer at home all/most the time?

14" LCD screen: suggest T470 or TP25, depending on your customization options desired.
~14" LCD is best for browsing and media watching IMHO. ymmv
~Specifically, FHD (1920x1080) LCD resolution is "good enough" for your purposes.
~Both T470 and TP25 offers FHD. TP25 LCD resolution is said to be slightly dimmer due to its mandatory touch-screen LCD.
(ie: Try not to get a touch screen; I personally never use touch screen, just to get a brighter LCD screen that uses less battery).

13" LCD screen: Suggest X270.
~Whilst X270 gives you more portability due to its slightly smaller form factor, our experience with X-series the LCD screen is somewhat cramped for our tastes.

Have fun choosing!
mario24601 wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:51 pm
Hi all, was also considering a T25 as first thinkpad....what model would you recommend for entry into thinkpad world? I was thinking a frankenpad, since I really miss having a 4:3 screen, or x230 or t430s....basically any thing. I would use for surfing web and some media watching. I dont use for gaming or anything intensive. I do want something with good screen, viewing angles and clarity. Thanks, appreciate any advice you can give.