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In defense of the Thinkpad 25

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gofishus
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In defense of the Thinkpad 25

#1 Post by gofishus » Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:49 pm

The Thinkpad 25 seems to get a lot of hate online, some of it is deserved some of it is not. I made my points defending it here however, let me know if you agree/disagree with my stance here.. im not saying its a perfect laptop, its definitely not retro, but I also don't think its overpriced 'crap' like a lot of people seem to think

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vs9ga62e394
2017 TP25 | 2016 X1 Yoga | 2014 X240 | 2007 X61

dr_st
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Re: In defense of the Thinkpad 25

#2 Post by dr_st » Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:41 pm

I listened to your entire video, although not with 100% attention to all of it, since it does get too long and repetitive, and some things are obvious.

So I will respond with a long rant of my own (but I don't do videos, so you'll have to read). :lol:

Naturally, I mostly agree with you. I don't understand, though, why it was so important to you to offer such lengthy rebuttals to Louis's stupid rant; it gives it (the rant, not Louis) way more attention than it deserves. Louis is very knowledgeable, and passionate about laptops, but in this case he fell into the trap of unreasonable expectations (a 'retro' laptop that will meet all his personal preferences). Once it was clear that there is no 'model line', but only a single model, it was obvious that it will not meet everyone's expectations, because they are either mutually exclusive, or too far-fetched in today's market situation. And quite a few of the die-hard fans here fell into the same trap.

The Thinkpad 25 does not need a defense. It's a great laptop. Everybody who got it likes it. All the reasonable classic Thinkpads fans like it, because it is the closest thing to a classic Thinkpad in today's market (yes, for the umpteenth time, the keyboard makes all the difference).

If it doesn't meet your expectations, oh well, go get something else. If a normal keyboard is not sufficiently important to you to overlook the fact that it the laptop does not have the "perfect" specs, then I guess it's really not as important to you as you thought, and you should happily choose from Lenovo's plethora of Thinkpads in the standard X, T and P series.

All the complaints about hardware are mostly junk complaints. Yes, it could theoretically be shipped with a newer-gen CPU/GPU. In a year it would still be outdated. It's meaningless when you think long-term (as I would expect from people who keep 5 and 10 year old systems!).

I guess I can understand that some people were expecting a true "retro" (like legacy ports) and got disappointed. Well, I'd rather these people be disappointed than people who actually want a modern laptop with a good keyboard.

And just a last comment that I cannot pass by:

The T61, the "grandfather" of laptops, according to Louis (a claim that apparently many subscribe to), is an ugly poorly designed piece of sh!t. I seriously can't understand people who are willing to have that on their desk. 4:3 diehards may remember it fondly because it was the last mainstream 4:3 (to be honest, the 4:3 was a little less ugly, because it shared more with the T60).

Really the only value of a T61 is that its innards are compatible with the T60 14" and 15" shells, and the hardware jump between the generations (which Lenovo had nothing to do with) happened to be significant enough to make 'frankenpadding' worthwhile, as you can get quite a bit farther ahead in performance than a stock T60.

This rant was typed on my 15" IPS T60, BTW. ;)

And to end on a positive note: I think your summary pretty much nailed it: the laptop world is better for having the Thinkpad 25 than it would have been without it.
Current: Thinkpad 25 (20K7), Yoga 14 (20FY), X220 4291-4BG, T410 2537-R46, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G
Collectibles: T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X32 (IPS Screen)
Retired: X61 7673-V2V, T60 1952-F76, A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad

gofishus
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Re: In defense of the Thinkpad 25

#3 Post by gofishus » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:09 pm

Thanks for listening to my rant I know some parts were really repetitive but I just wanted to respond to all the naysayers out there because i felt the hate against this laptop was undeserved. Impossible to satisfy everyone. Thanks for your response.
2017 TP25 | 2016 X1 Yoga | 2014 X240 | 2007 X61

theterminator93
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Re: In defense of the Thinkpad 25

#4 Post by theterminator93 » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:51 pm

In the end, haters will hate, and they pool together and feed off one another to hate even more. There seem to be far too few people on this earth truly willing to compromise.

My T25 isn't the only laptop I use, and there are reasons why. I use my W520 all the time, and my FrankenPad T60/T61 is my weapon of choice at work (although I will occasionally leave it home and take the T25 instead). In the end I chose to buy because my expectations were fairly low from the get-go - my only real desire was to get the classic keyboard back, which is what I got. I opted not to pass up the opportunity to own the, in what it will probably end up being, last ever ThinkPad with the classic keyboard. What I got actually pleasantly surprised me.

On a side note, the larger heat sink does a marvelous job at keeping the CPU cool so it can run at (or near) max turbo. I've been experimenting with it by mining cryptocurrency for a few days and it's been running at full speed nearly the whole time (it drops to 3.4 GHz occasionally). From a CPU performance standpoint with this as the benchmark, its dual core 15W TDP performs as fast as my W520's 45W TDP quad core. That's impressive.
Last edited by theterminator93 on Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Daily: T25 | W520 i7-2860QM·Quadro 2000m·IPS FHD | T420 i7-2640M·NVS 4200m·IPS FHD | X220 i7-2640M | T601F T9900·NVS 140M·IPS UXGA
Wife's: T61p T9500·2010 FX570m·WUXGA | X220T i7-2640M
Others: T61p·61·43·42p|X41T·24·23·22|G41|A31p·22m|i1200|TransNote|380D|365XD|701C|755C

ajkula66
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Re: In defense of the Thinkpad 25

#5 Post by ajkula66 » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:53 pm

dr_st wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:41 pm
The Thinkpad 25 does not need a defense.
Agreed. It's a laptop, not an individual accused of high treason.

Which is one of the reasons why - with all due respect to OP - I couldn't bring myself to watching the whole YT video that he made.

Like most other things in life, ThinkPad 25 either works for one's intended purposes or it doesn't. It's really that simple.
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

Cheers,

George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)

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Re: In defense of the Thinkpad 25

#6 Post by theterminator93 » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:09 pm

Not sure this is the best place to post this, but another justification for me in buying the T25 is the answer to this question which I posted on a 2018 product lineup webinar this afternoon I was invited to, being a business partner:

Question - Brandon
Will the keyboard from the 25th anniversary model make its way to any of the mainstream models in the future?
  Answer - Adrienne Mueller
  We do not have any plans to do that at this time. Unfortunately just a limited special edition offering.
Daily: T25 | W520 i7-2860QM·Quadro 2000m·IPS FHD | T420 i7-2640M·NVS 4200m·IPS FHD | X220 i7-2640M | T601F T9900·NVS 140M·IPS UXGA
Wife's: T61p T9500·2010 FX570m·WUXGA | X220T i7-2640M
Others: T61p·61·43·42p|X41T·24·23·22|G41|A31p·22m|i1200|TransNote|380D|365XD|701C|755C

dr_st
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Re: In defense of the Thinkpad 25

#7 Post by dr_st » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:03 pm

theterminator93 wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:09 pm
Question - Brandon
Will the keyboard from the 25th anniversary model make its way to any of the mainstream models in the future?
  Answer - Adrienne Mueller
  We do not have any plans to do that at this time. Unfortunately just a limited special edition offering.
It's pretty obvious this is their current position. It's our job to change it, approaching anyone inside Lenovo that can affect the position.
Current: Thinkpad 25 (20K7), Yoga 14 (20FY), X220 4291-4BG, T410 2537-R46, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G
Collectibles: T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X32 (IPS Screen)
Retired: X61 7673-V2V, T60 1952-F76, A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad

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Re: In defense of the Thinkpad 25

#8 Post by shawross » Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:08 pm

dr_st wrote:It's pretty obvious this is their current position. It's our job to change it, approaching anyone inside Lenovo that can affect the position.
Goodluck with that one although Lenovo people do follow these forums.

You would probably have more impact voicing this on Reddit where the next generation of Thinkpad buyers reside and Lenovo know it

Although you come up against the Lenovo insiders and fan boys.
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Re: In defense of the Thinkpad 25

#9 Post by ajkula66 » Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:46 pm

dr_st wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:03 pm
It's our job to change it, approaching anyone inside Lenovo that can affect the position.
I admire your optimism, old friend, but do not share it one bit.

We've been trying to get Lenovo to listen for more than a decade now, with nothing to show for it.

ThinkPad 25 - as many of us have suspected - has proven to be a "one off" money grab, which has brought Lenovo a *ton* of media exposure that they wouldn't have gotten otherwise.

I'll leave it to the younger generation to possibly keep on fighting the fight to get "the job" done and wish everyone luck in the process, but I'm out. For good.
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

Cheers,

George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)

AARP club members:A31p, T43pSF

Abused daily: T61p

PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.

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Re: In defense of the Thinkpad 25

#10 Post by theterminator93 » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:06 pm

You know... one of the other "new features" they were touting with the T480 et al was "a series of beeps at startup that can be decoded to tell you exactly why your computer isn't booting if there are problems". :lol: :lol:
Daily: T25 | W520 i7-2860QM·Quadro 2000m·IPS FHD | T420 i7-2640M·NVS 4200m·IPS FHD | X220 i7-2640M | T601F T9900·NVS 140M·IPS UXGA
Wife's: T61p T9500·2010 FX570m·WUXGA | X220T i7-2640M
Others: T61p·61·43·42p|X41T·24·23·22|G41|A31p·22m|i1200|TransNote|380D|365XD|701C|755C

w0qj
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Re: In defense of the Thinkpad 25

#11 Post by w0qj » Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:01 am

To be fair, Lenovo/ThinkPad did make a serious effort for Thinkpad 25.

At least the traditional 7-row keyboard had key backlight, so they did some redesigning...

==>For the record, if ThinkPad someday launches 16:10 LCD and 7-row traditional keyboard, we would buy multiple units of ThinkPads, and to replenish our entire (small) 100% ThinkPad fleet ;)
Daily Driver: X1 Carbon 4th Gen (X1C4): i7-6600U 2.6GHz; 16GB DDR3 1866 MHz; 1TB PCIe-NVMe SSD; 14" WQHD 2560x1440; LTE EM7455 Mobile Broadband; Win7 Pro 64bit
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Re: In defense of the Thinkpad 25

#12 Post by shawross » Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:19 am

w0qj wrote:To be fair, Lenovo/ThinkPad did make a serious effort for Thinkpad 25.

I am glad some people think so


w0qj wrote:At least the traditional 7-row keyboard had key backlight, so they did some redesigning...

They also made it a touch screen which just screams "Retro" . We are truly blessed by Lenovo. :bow:
Active --- Love the X series
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Re: In defense of the Thinkpad 25

#13 Post by gofishus » Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:04 pm

shawross wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:19 am
w0qj wrote:To be fair, Lenovo/ThinkPad did make a serious effort for Thinkpad 25.

I am glad some people think so


w0qj wrote:At least the traditional 7-row keyboard had key backlight, so they did some redesigning...

They also made it a touch screen which just screams "Retro" . We are truly blessed by Lenovo. :bow:
There's nothing retro about this laptop. Its a strictly better T470 with a dedicated GPU and a much better keyboard, with a small upcharge for it. Doesn't deserve so much hate when you look at it from this standpoint. If people didnt hate the T470 there's no reason to hate the TP25 from a specs perspective
2017 TP25 | 2016 X1 Yoga | 2014 X240 | 2007 X61

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Re: In defense of the Thinkpad 25

#14 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:33 pm

theterminator93 wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:06 pm
You know... one of the other "new features" they were touting with the T480 et al was "a series of beeps at startup that can be decoded to tell you exactly why your computer isn't booting if there are problems". :lol: :lol:
My IBM PC 5150 has that. 36 years later, beep codes shouldn't be a feature.

Also, it has a touchscreen because the original Thinkpads had touchscreens? 700T, 710T, 750P?
Just collecting vintage machines....Thinkpads included.
Have: IBM PC 5150, Tandy 1400LT, Macintosh Portable, Metalis 286(dead), Satellite 200CDS, TP 755C&CDV , 701C, Slimsport 286(deadish/zombie).
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Re: In defense of the Thinkpad 25

#15 Post by ajkula66 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:55 pm

gofishus wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:04 pm

There's nothing retro about this laptop. Its a strictly better T470 with a dedicated GPU and a much better keyboard, with a small upcharge for it. Doesn't deserve so much hate when you look at it from this standpoint. If people didnt hate the T470 there's no reason to hate the TP25 from a specs perspective
People don't hate TP25 from a "specs" perspective. I doubt that anyone in their right mind hates a laptop, let alone from such a standpoint.

What people *do* hate is the way Lenovo went about a lot of things over the past decade - all discussed ad nauseam on this forum and elsewhere - and crowned it with the slap in the face that many perceive TP25 to be after the entire "Retro" charade.
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

Cheers,

George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)

AARP club members:A31p, T43pSF

Abused daily: T61p

PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.

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