Win2k installation issues.

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jesspkc · #1 Post by **jesspkc** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 5:43 pm

I bought a 570e a few months ago as I needed a newish laptop. (my last thinkpad was a 380) and so I was hoping to install windows 2000 on to it. (as it has superior USB support)

Now as you may know already the 570e does not have a CD drive or Floppy drive without the use of the ultrabase, but I can't afford that (I got a good deal on the laptop which is why I have it)

So what I have tried to do was copy the i386 folder from the disc and in dos (it has 98 on it already) ran the winnt executable and it goes and copies files.

Now normally, I would only have to reboot and it would continue with the install. but it doesn't.

NTLDR IS MISSING

Now, when I boot the drive from a desktop machine, there are no problems and it wishes to continue the install, at one point I let it do that part of the install (just more file copying) and then returned the drive (pre driver installation) to the thinkpad and again,

NTLDR IS MISSING

Please remember,
I cannot spend more money on this.
I have no CD or Floppy drive.
I have a 2.5 to 3.5 HDD converter to access the drive from a desktop.

I searched first for similar problems and the closest thing I can see to resolve my issue is installing a boot manager of some sort.

Ive been attempting a slew of different methods to install this (not a bootmanager though) and have asked around on other forums (non computer related however) and I figure the the best place as any for me to ask would be here.

Can anyone save this poor canuck and his thinkpad?

jesspkc · #2 Post by **jesspkc** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 5:48 pm

in case someone wonders how I copied the i386 folder, I made the win2k cd into a disk image and copied it to the laptop via network and mounted the iso.

sugo · #3 Post by **sugo** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 5:57 pm

Which winnt executable did you run? How are hdd partitions configured? Are you trying to dual boot w2k and 98?

jesspkc · #4 Post by **jesspkc** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 6:05 pm

I ran the dos winnt.exe in dos.

1 FAT32 partition (12gb drive)

I don't want to dual boot win98 but I don't want to convert to NTFS (unless I REALLY REALLY have to)

my intentions are that I use the win98's dos thats in there now to install win2k, then once it is installed, delete win98.

sugo · #5 Post by **sugo** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 6:23 pm

I believe W2k can be used on FAT32. You shoudn't need to convert to NTFS.

Have you installed a W2K the same way (running winnt.exe)?

If there is a setup.exe file, I would try copying everything on the CD to C: and run the setup.exe.

jesspkc · #6 Post by **jesspkc** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 6:46 pm

Ive also tried the windows installer, winnt32.exe which returns the same error.

setup just runs the winnt32.exe installer.

sugo · #7 Post by **sugo** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 6:49 pm

I used to always copy everything on the CD to HDD and run setup.exe. Sorry I am running out of ideas on why the NT boot loader did not get installed properly ...

jesspkc · #8 Post by **jesspkc** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 7:16 pm

well like I said, its not that the bootloader isn't loaded properly as I can put this laptop drive on a desktop and it loads no problem.

Its only when I put it on the laptop.

jhonyl · #9 Post by **jhonyl** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 7:18 pm

Hi,

I don't really know, but I have a few thoughts: On the sticky thread of the how to fresh install XP there is a link to how winXP installation CD can be made. There are also some other posts there that links to other resources, where other OSs such is W2K installation CD can be made. If I rememer right it is related to the "bcd" software site. So, you can see there how to make an instalation CD. The cd content is prepared in some folder, and maybe you could run it from the hard drive folder without making a CD out of it, and if not you may try making a CD image, and then there is a software that can load it as a virtual CD, so you might be able to still run it without the hardware CD.

sugo · #10 Post by **sugo** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 7:30 pm

wait ... could it be the drive/partition number in boot.ini?

Does the laptop drive work in desktop when it's the *only* HDD in the system?

jesspkc · #11 Post by **jesspkc** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 9:22 pm

Yes it does.

And it also works if I tell the BIOS to boot from whatever drive I set it as if there are other drives (other hdds, optical disc drives, etc)

jesspkc · #12 Post by **jesspkc** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 7:02 am

I just tried with a winxp image I made from a friends old disc (he's a mac user now) and I still get the error.

It just makes no sense. (to me)

dsvochak · #13 Post by **dsvochak** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:54 am

Try Sugo's suggestion about copying everything to the HD and running setup except run it from Win 98. I think that's how I upgraded a 560Z from W98 to W2K. W2K has problems installing from DOS unless you have a bootable CD or you have created the bootable floppys.

Nolonemo · #14 Post by **Nolonemo** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:33 pm

dsvochak wrote:Try Sugo's suggestion about copying everything to the HD and running setup except run it from Win 98. I think that's how I upgraded a 560Z from W98 to W2K. W2K has problems installing from DOS unless you have a bootable CD or you have created the bootable floppys.

I'm stumped, I did an Win2K install on a 560x using the method described by the OP without problems (except I didn't have Win98 installed on it). So perhaps running from Win98 is the solution.

Otherwise, can you run winnt again and go into repair mode? Choose repair console. Perhaps one of these commands will work (google for more info).

Bootcfg (Configure boot file (boot.ini) settings. )
Fixboot (Write a new boot sector to a selected partition. )

I've never used these, perhaps someone here can give you more specific advice.

jesspkc · #15 Post by **jesspkc** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 1:25 pm

running winnt again simply removes the old setup files and reinserts them. It then asks to reboot.

the point at which it stops is therefore BEFORE the choice of starting the install or going to the repair console.

(doing this next step on the desktop I do not believe installs and drivers but when returned to the laptop produces the same results)

I will give trying to get into the recovery console a shot.

Bootcfg (Configure boot file (boot.ini) settings. )
Fixboot (Write a new boot sector to a selected partition. )

^^^
those sound promising and I'll have to give those a shot as well.

Anyone reading with a suggestion I am of course willing to hear it

mako · #16 Post by **mako** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 11:39 am

I have pretty much the same issue, and pretty much the same hardware: 570 with no external drives and a 2.5"-3.5" adapter. However I have one working experience and one non-working experience, with two different 2.5" drives.

Works:
- ~2200MB drive, no LBA, very old
- fdisk/format /s in desktop with win98 ERD, FAT32, one partition
- copy I386 folder from CD
- put into 570, run winnt.exe
- installs fine, runs windows, apps, etc

This process results in 2 entries in the boot.ini menu: win98 and win2k.

Doesn't work:
- new 40GB drive
- fdisk/format /s in desktop with win98 ERD
- tried 5GB FAT32 partition, 2GB FAT32 partition, 2GB FAT16 partition
- don't think the 5GB was ever recognized, but that may have been due to other things, like forgetting to set the partition active
- copy I386 folder from CD
- put into 570, run winnt.exe
- will run the first portion of setup where files are copied
- then doesn't boot: blinking cursor in upper left corner
- drive works fine in desktop

I got the NTLDR IS MISSING message at some point; under FAT16 I think.

In the legacy hardware forum there was something about the 570 hardware being picky about formatting or something. At this point I'm sure there's something up with the boot process, which would probably be most conveniently alleviated by formatting within the thinkpad itself (which we are trying to get around).

I'll try the recovery console tools too.

SeanM · #17 Post by **SeanM** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 4:40 pm

This might happen if you've partitioned the drive while it's in the desktop. You can format it in the desktop if you want, but you should partition the drive in the thinkpad. Once you move it to the desktop, use the existing partitions.

Since this may not be an option for you jess, you can try forcing the bios of your desktop to use an alternate configuration for the drive. Try setting the cylinders/heads/sectors as indicated on the label on the hard drive, then re-partitioning the drive. It depends on how the desktop has set up the drive.

jesspkc · #18 Post by **jesspkc** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 3:11 pm

Setting the c/h/s to the right numbers just results in an almost 8gb drive (16383, 15, 63)

Unless I fudged up somewhere, but its a 12gb drive.

I'll keep everyone posted on what else I try...

#19 Post by **GomJabbar** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 4:03 pm

jesspkc wrote:Setting the c/h/s to the right numbers just results in an almost 8gb drive (16383, 15, 63)

Unless I fudged up somewhere, but its a 12gb drive.

I'll keep everyone posted on what else I try...

To remove the HPA and get full use of your hard drive, check out the following link:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/ibm ... f946520409

jesspkc · #20 Post by **jesspkc** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 6:03 pm

I don't think its an issue with that, If I let the drive auto-detect its the full 12gb, if I configure the drive in the bios, the bios only reports the drive to being 8gb. a 4gb "hidden partition"? Maybe I just don't understand what you're talking about.

So I decided to format again, I made the partitions a 4gb partition and a whatever size was left partition, formatted them both of course and attempted install of win2k on the 4gb partition. There is no win98 to speak of on the drive so It can't be that interfering with the boot up on the laptop.

I'm starting to feel abysmal about the whole thing, I mean really, this thing can handle WinXP or Win2k but no matter what I'm trying it just keeps messing up.

Am I to blame the BIOS? myself? Windows 2k? IBM?

Why does something so simple have to prove so difficult
(unless you have money to throw at it, then you're fine)

I think I'm getting some floppy drives for the thing, I hope they're compatible.

#21 Post by **GomJabbar** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 6:13 pm

From what I have read, the HPA hidden partition is about 4-5 gb in size. However, maybe this is not your issue.

See if the following site could provide the answer to your problem.

http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/bios/size.htm

mako · #22 Post by **mako** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 7:08 pm

The 8GB you're seeing is due to the limitation of the CHS numbers. They can only address 8GB of space, which is why things like LBA were thought up. It's not the hidden partition.

So far I believe the problem is as SeanM said: you have to fdisk the drive in the laptop. And so I had an idea yesterday:

1. partition drive to arbitrary size in desktop with win98 ERD (fdisk)
2. format c: /s
3. copy fdisk.exe to the drive from the ERD!
4. put into laptop, run fdisk
5. put in desktop, format c: /s, copy over I386

And that's where I stopped last night. I hope it works; I've been formatting and reformatting all week.

People in the legacy hardware forum have 80GB drives in their 570s, so drive size shouldn't be an issue.

jesspkc · #23 Post by **jesspkc** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 8:31 pm

Mako, yes thats how I at first understood the 8gb I was seeing.

I am going to try your suggestion soon, will post results.

jesspkc · #24 Post by **jesspkc** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 9:28 pm

Thanks Mako, it booted! it really booted!

You've saved me time and money, I can't thank you enough to everyone who tried to help all of you!

jesspkc · #25 Post by **jesspkc** » Sat Jul 02, 2005 12:20 am

You know, its always just one of those things.

When you don't know it, you go crazy.

But once you do, it makes sense, and then you could do it a million times.

But thats learning isn't it?

oh Im just so excited that win2k is finally on my thinkpad!

mako · #26 Post by **mako** » Sat Jul 02, 2005 4:42 pm

Glad it worked for you, because it's not working for me (heh). I did mess around with my desktop's BIOS beforehand, which probably resulted in complications. So in your case, I'd like to know specifically:

1. how you partitioned your drive (sizes)
2. the bios settings in your desktop, if set

jesspkc · #27 Post by **jesspkc** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 9:51 pm

the partition that I created in the desktop was 500mb, I did a sys c: with a win98 EBD and then copied fdisk.

The HDD was detected automatically within the desktop.

-If there is any particular setting you wish to know about, the desktops bios settings have not been changed, the board was an Via MVP3 board. I can look at whatever you need to.

when I moved the drive over to the laptop, the system booted win98 command line with ease, and I allowed fdisk to take the entire capacity of the HDD on the thinkpad.

Once I had completed the fdisk, I returned the HDD to the desktop, again having the drive autodetect by windows, copied i386, returned to laptop where the system asked to boot to Win 2k install or "Previous Operating System on C:"

mako · #28 Post by **mako** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 12:20 am

Thanks for the info. It turns out that the floppy drive I ordered arrived, so I just used it and everything went fine. I'm not exactly anxious to figure out the exact steps for a floppy-less install, heh.

Win2k installation issues.

Win2k installation issues.

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