IBM Product Key Problems

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sparta.rising · #1 Post by **sparta.rising** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 9:29 am

So I did a clean install of Windows XP Pro with a CD I had. But I wanted to use the license key that came with the machine (on the sticker on the bottom). Its also Windows XP Pro, but when i try and use the key, it says its invalid. Whats with this? Does the product key only work with the recovery CDs?

#2 Post by **jdhurst** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 9:53 am

Yes. JDH

#3 Post by **GomJabbar** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 1:42 pm

While I could be wrong, and I am not speaking from personal experience, it it my understanding that the product key on the bottom of the laptop has to be used with an OEM version of Windows XP (or other appropriate Windows version as was initially installed on the ThinkPad). It seems that I have read that the Recovery CD's have the product key already on them, and it is not necessary to enter one when using the Recovery CD's. I believe I've read that the product key that the Recovery CD's use is different than the product key on the bottom of the ThinkPad.

So to sum up (if I'm right). You need an OEM version of Windows, rather than a Retail or Upgrade version, to use the product key on the bottom of your ThinkPad.

Check the Sticky at the top of the Windows OS forum. I believe this is where I read the above information.

#4 Post by **jdhurst** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 1:49 pm

So far as I know, the key on the bottom is linked to the recovery CD or disk image.

Here is a strange situation (from personal experience and conversation with IBM). If the recovery asks for a key, the key on the bottom works. But it is not supposed to ask, and if it does, the recovery is faulty. In my case, that meant new CD sets (two more for my T41 to get a working set and one more for my NetVista A30 desktop to get a working set).
... JD Hurst

#5 Post by **Kyocera** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 8:03 pm

I've used my recovery CD's for different hard drives, and installed from the partition on both my laptops and never been asked for a product key.

#6 Post by **bill bolton** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 8:28 pm

sparta.rising wrote:So I did a clean install of Windows XP Pro with a CD I had.

Unless the CD you had was an OEM class installation one, the XP key on your laptop WILL NOT WORK. Since you already "had" it, its likely to be a retail installation class CD, which will need a retail XP key.

There are numerous web sites which explain this in detail and can be readily found with a Google search on "XP key".

Cheers,

Bill

sparta.rising · #7 Post by **sparta.rising** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 5:15 pm

The CD's I had were from my school (the ECE department has a MSDN Academic subscription). We get one product key, but can download the image as much as we want.

So, is there a way to get a clean install of Windows XP from the Recovery CDs? I saw the option to restore to factory condition, but can I get the old Windows XP blue install screen and install a copy without the IBM software?

#8 Post by **carbon_unit** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 5:47 pm

Academic versions are definitely different.
I used the number on the sticker with a retail cd on my T42 and it worked fine.

smugiri · #9 Post by **smugiri** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 9:48 pm

Assuming that this was from a school, academic licensing for Microsoft products is to the best on my knowledge based on VLKs ( volume licence keys )which are a single key that will allow you to do multiple installs. A VLK CD will not install with a valid Win XP key or even an regular Win XP key. A VLK will allow you to install that copy of Windows on multiple machines and will typically not require activation.

What you need to do is go back and get the specific Windows XP VLK for the Windows XP image that you have. These are typically guarded like gold in institutions since abusing a VLK ( no activation, right?? ) usually means losing your licence and/or fines and other draconian policy measures taken aganist the school. Here is a doc that gives some info on rules for VLK use in an academic setting. Make sure you qualify to use this disk before you do your install else your school could get in lots and lots of trouble. Typically, if you are a student attending full time, you should qualify for the licence but do your research - I am not an authoritative source on this. As always, YMMV.

kaiser · #10 Post by **kaiser** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 1:42 am

sparta.rising wrote:So, is there a way to get a clean install of Windows XP from the Recovery CDs? I saw the option to restore to factory condition, but can I get the old Windows XP blue install screen and install a copy without the IBM software?

Here is the HowTo i used to build a clean XP-CD. (but i added for me some neat features like auto-install of Software-Installer, Mozilla Firefox and Thunderbird)
http://www.4saad.com/WhatsNew/Fresh_XP_ ... /index.htm
Unattended Windows Installations:
http://unattended.msfn.org/

smugiri · #11 Post by **smugiri** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 10:22 am

sparta.rising wrote:

So, is there a way to get a clean install of Windows XP from the Recovery CDs? I saw the option to restore to factory condition, but can I get the old Windows XP blue install screen and install a copy without the IBM software?

In a word, no.

The product recovery CDs launch an automated process that start with partitioning to creating the HPAs and then automatically launches a completely unattended Windows install that eventually lands you on a completely built desktop when everything is done. I do not know what would happen if you interrupted it. Probably VBT ( very bad things ) ...

Guz · #12 Post by **Guz** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 2:43 pm

Actually, I've been looking into this issue for quite awhile now. I have a couple T40's to work with. All still have the HPA partition so doing the factory default restore isn't an issue.

But, I like to hand installs/customizations on my systems. I have access to Retail, VLK, OEM, etc. XP install disks. Guess what!?! The XP Keys stickers on the bottom of the machines don't work!

I know the algorithm for creating keys has been cracked, and there is a program out there that will verify a key to make sure it is valid. So I went digging and downloaded it and entered the keys. None of them are valid.

I have also taken the /i386 directory that is created when one does a system restore and used it to create bootable install disks, along with the other required directories (yea, I've done this many times in the past). Guess, what... the keys on the stickers STILL don't work.

I've even looked at the unattend.txt file, where you enter the key so you don't have to during the install. That key doesn't work. I've even looked at the setupp.inf file to verify that the values it holds shows that it is set as an OEM install, its correct.

So, I am REALLY confused at this point.

Luckily, I own valid a VLK key and CD so I can get around this. But I would rather not use this key since I already have paid Microsoft through IBM for valid keys when I purchased the Thinkpads.

smugiri · #13 Post by **smugiri** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 5:07 pm

@guz

But, I like to hand installs/customizations on my systems. I have access to Retail, VLK, OEM, etc. XP install disks. Guess what!?! The XP Keys stickers on the bottom of the machines don't work!

Yep, I think that the keys on the botton of the machine are for an OEM version of Windows that is licensed to IBM ( one key per install with the OEM Windows XP image ) while the installer in the product recovery disks for the system uses a VLK licenced to IBM as an OEM ( many install per key with that specific VLK image ). VLK keys and OEM keys constitute separate subsets Windows XP key space which explains why the keys do not work.

I know the algorithm for creating keys has been cracked, and there is a program out there that will verify a key to make sure it is valid. So I went digging and downloaded it and entered the keys. None of them are valid.

The key testers out there mainly check for keys for the Windows XP retail image. You need to find a tester for the OEM or VLK images and I am not sure those exist.

Guz · #14 Post by **Guz** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 6:20 pm

smugiri wrote:@guz
Yep, I think that the keys on the botton of the machine are for an OEM version of Windows that is licensed to IBM ( one key per install with the OEM Windows XP image ) while the installer in the product recovery disks for the system uses a VLK licenced to IBM as an OEM ( many install per key with that specific VLK image ). VLK keys and OEM keys constitute separate subsets Windows XP key space which explains why the keys do not work.

The differences on an install CD between VLK, OEM, and Retail is a single file with a particular line. You can change a disk to whatever you want with a simple text editor. The keys are just dependent on the what is stated in a specific file. The decryption engine is the same on any disk (the exception is with SP2 that blacklisted certain range of keys because they changed the dll engine).

The key testers out there mainly check for keys for the Windows XP retail image. You need to find a tester for the OEM or VLK images and I am not sure those exist.

Actually the tester I have obtained checks for Retail, and VLK. It does not have the option for OEM. So... the keys maybe for OEM only.

I'm in the process of exctrating the i386 dirs off the restored drive to try again to see what I might have done wrong (as per the sticky FAQ above).

smugiri · #15 Post by **smugiri** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 10:07 pm

wow @guz .... you obviously have put some time into finding out how these work ....

quick question @guz, how do you open up the iso image for editing ( assuming you work with the .iso? ) or how do you re-create a bootable image after copying all the files to a disk.

I have been trying to find a way to do this for quite a while now...

#16 Post by **GomJabbar** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 11:13 pm

You use a tool like ISOBUSTER to extract the iso image from a Windows Install CD. This is used to make your CD bootable.

http://www.smart-projects.net/isobuster/

You can find the following information from links on this page: http://www.isobuster.com/usefullinks.htm

*Knowledge base on bootable CDs
*Slipstreaming XP
*Boot Discs, related utilities, tools and lots more

atha · #17 Post by **atha** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 7:50 am

My problem was, that I had a German WXPpro factory HPA on my T40p and wanted to install English XP. I didn't have the English i386 from IBM, just a generic OEM install disk. After a couple of clean installs and factory installs later I've succeeded installing the clean install with English XP pre-activated. So here's my working procedure.

Before installing:
- Install factory recovery OS (If installed already, skip this)
- Get hold of the product key (with magical jelly bean for instance or unattend.txt should have it also)
- backup activation data (windows\system32\wpa.dbl)
- backup oembios* files from windows\system32 or IBM's i386 directory . In i386 directory those are in packed format (file extensions ending with _ ) and you have to use expand command.

Installing:
- Install windows with OEM version (i386\setupp.ini 's second line ends with OEM) and use the product code from factory install. After the install, the Windows asks for activation, just discard the request for now.
- Start in safe mode and copy the backed up files into the windows\system32 directory.

Conclusion: If you use the IBM's i386 directory to build the install disk, just follow http://www.4saad.com/WhatsNew/Fresh_XP_ ... /index.htm and you' should be fine. If you for some reason have to use other ones, get hold of the oembios* files as well as wpa.dbl from the factory install. AFAIK, Oembios is locked to the BIOS of laptop and pre-activation requires correct oembios to work. I'm not sure if the backup of wpa.dbl is necessary or not.

Automatic inclusion of oembios* files could also be possible, but I didn't want to rebuild the install disk so I just copied them afterwards.

Guz · #18 Post by **Guz** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 12:25 pm

Ok, me bad. I finally got things working (I was missing a couple files when I was making the CD's).

They are all valid OEM keys.

The key in the unattend file doesn't require activation (as stated previously).

The key's on the stickers DO require activation, but WON'T activate via the internet. I didn't bother calling M$ to correct the problem (just being lazy). I vaguely remember reading something somewhere that this is SOP for certain OEM key stickers (I hate activation).

So now I will spend the next couple of days working out how to get the newest drivers to properly install during the orginal install process and not to install MSN and the stupid messenger program (I hate those programs).

#19 Post by **carbon_unit** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 7:19 pm

To get the proper drivers just get the Thinkpad "Software Installer" program and it will handle the IBM updates for you.

Guz · #20 Post by **Guz** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 12:52 pm

carbon_unit wrote:To get the proper drivers just get the Thinkpad "Software Installer" program and it will handle the IBM updates for you.

Yep, nice little progie. But I would like to integrate the drivers in the install, so I don't have to run the software installer, except for when there are newer drivers out there.

It's mainly just an excerise in customizing installs. I used to do this for work awhile ago. But I haven't done it for sometime now and feel a little rusty so I need the practice.

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