Is Vista Worth it?

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Cassirer · #1 Post by **Cassirer** » Wed May 17, 2006 3:12 am

hmmmm

a) is it worth it? Is it essentially all cosmetic or is it a better system that would justify the work to load it on to the T60??

b) I am surprised to hear that the graphics might be a problem … newest model of the thinkpad might have problems with the graphics … hello, lunix has had transparent windows and better graphics for years … what makes the Aero Glass special?

Steve

Moderator: I made you guys a new Vista Bashing thread. This had little relevence to the thread it was in originally.

w0qj · #2 Post by **w0qj** » Wed May 17, 2006 3:43 am

What's so good about Vista's Aero Glass anyways?
The basic operations remains the same...

There's already a lot of tips out there that suggest if you want a noticeable improvement in Windows UI speed, switch back to Classic Windows Theme (and turn off other animated/shadow options) in Win'XP-Pro.

So what's so good about Vista's Aero Glass interface?

#3 Post by **Kyocera** » Wed May 17, 2006 5:33 am

I googled this explanation of the effects and it also has the specs.

#4 Post by **jdhurst** » Wed May 17, 2006 5:39 am

This is a very good question. There are some features about XP that keep me in XP instead of Windows 2000. The key two are (1) Clear Type, and (2) general advancements. I still use the classic interface as I don't find the eye candy useful or productive (it gets in the way).

So if I use classic instead of Aero, what will Vista bring? As I understand it, one key feature is Windows Updates will happen in standard user mode. Businesses will embrace that feature.
... JD Hurst

#5 Post by **Kyocera** » Wed May 17, 2006 6:23 am

I can tell you from using Vista that it is set up slightly different, much to my chagrin actually. One thing is control panel has more "help" features. Things just are not ( what I consider) the normal places after to many years of windows use probably. There is also a classic interface like XP has. I'll check it out tonight and report back.

#6 Post by **GomJabbar** » Wed May 17, 2006 7:10 am

jdhurst wrote:So if I use classic instead of Aero, what will Vista bring? As I understand it, one key feature is Windows Updates will happen in standard user mode. Businesses will embrace that feature.
... JD Hurst

My antivirus can do updates without being in the administrator profile, why can't Windows? Standard user mode (Limited User) is just crippled too much. I can't even change the power scheme in Battery Maximiser while in standard user mode. Some other programs only work properly in administrator mode. This has been a complaint of many pundits. W2K made it easier by having a power user profile as an option. XP has a power user profile too, but it is unknown to many users because it is not found where one would expect it; in User Accounts in Control Panel.

#7 Post by **jdhurst** » Wed May 17, 2006 7:51 am

GomJabbar wrote:
jdhurst wrote:So if I use classic instead of Aero, what will Vista bring? As I understand it, one key feature is Windows Updates will happen in standard user mode. Businesses will embrace that feature.
... JD Hurst
My antivirus can do updates without being in the administrator profile, why can't Windows? Standard user mode (Limited User) is just crippled too much. <snip>

Yes, Symantec Corporate can update in standard user mode also. That Windows update cannot is a problem for small businesses. Large businesses use SUS servers, but that is a costly approach. I do hope Vista fixes this lot. My read is that it will (fingers crossed).
... JD Hurst

Legionnaire · #8 Post by **Legionnaire** » Wed May 17, 2006 11:13 am

I believe the question here is if it is worth to make the transition to Vista. For some that may mean hardware upgrade, for others settings & preferences migration.

My opinion is that if you are happy (or just "doing ok") with your computer (here: thinkpad) and Windows XP stick with it and don't try Vista.

And afterall if I decide to make any "transition" that will be towards linux.

I say that keeping in mind what's most important for me: my thinkpad to be 24/7 available for work.

P.S.: I've read a Vista preview in which it says that there's a new filesystem with permissions (admin/user level) that will bring quite a headache not only to sys admins but also to home users. If you have some spare time, google it and you'll find out more.

Nolonemo · #9 Post by **Nolonemo** » Wed May 17, 2006 5:23 pm

[deleted]

#10 Post by **jdhurst** » Thu May 18, 2006 7:43 am

Legionnaire wrote:I believe the question here is if it is worth to make the transition to Vista. For some that may mean hardware upgrade, for others settings & preferences migration.

My opinion is that if you are happy (or just "doing ok") with your computer (here: thinkpad) and Windows XP stick with it and don't try Vista. <snip>

As noted earlier, there are features in Vista that will appeal to business. Otherwise, to your point, it has rarely been worth it to me to upgrade the OS in any computer I had. I will keep XP Pro on the two machines I have now, and when the time comes to replace them, I will probably move to Vista. There is no compelling reason to do anything right now. ... JD Hurst

icantux · #11 Post by **icantux** » Thu May 18, 2006 10:39 am

Here's an interesting article:

http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/win ... 308_05.asp

According to him, an upgrade to vista wouldn't be worth it. He offers an explanation about the glass windows and user accounts protection ... Overall conclusion:
"Windows Vista will do what so many other Windows releases have done, and simply offer consumers and business users a few major changes and many subtle or minor updates."

XCoalMiner · #12 Post by **XCoalMiner** » Sun May 21, 2006 10:27 am

I believe some security features are in Vista that no service packs or add-ons to previous releases can emulate.

One such feature is a username/password prompt before any software installation proceeds, this includes even ActiveX (.MSI) installs currently done on demand in a browser.

DavidNZ · #13 Post by **DavidNZ** » Sun May 21, 2006 1:17 pm

One feature I would like to see, and have heard is coming, is a clean way to add metadata to files. For me, this will greatly improve my ability to search through hundreds and hundreds of academic journal articles that I've got archived.

That said, I am honestly thinking about moving to the second generation MacBook, assuming the problems I've read about over the weekend are indeed fixed in the second generation. Not sure why, but I'm slowly being pulled back to the Mac environment.

DIGITALgimpus · #14 Post by **DIGITALgimpus** » Sun May 21, 2006 1:54 pm

XCoalMiner wrote:I believe some security features are in Vista that no service packs or add-ons to previous releases can emulate.

One such feature is a username/password prompt before any software installation proceeds, this includes even ActiveX (.MSI) installs currently done on demand in a browser.

A revolutionary feature... yet common on every other platform for years.

makaveli559m · #15 Post by **makaveli559m** » Mon May 29, 2006 1:55 am

I like Vista but its a rip off because people still use Pentium 3 laptops and machines as much as P4. To make it a minimum of 800mhz is not wise. The lowest they should do is 400mhz or 450. I mean thats too much of a jump of mhz, I mean the lowest for XP 233mhz. Why wouldnt the successor follow the tradtion of how much cpu usage grows at each relase of Window. Like Windows 2000 the low point is 200mhz to run at good speed as in XP it only grew 233mhz as a minimal requirement. Vista should than around 400mhz I said it.

christopher_wolf · #16 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Mon May 29, 2006 2:28 am

Windows Vista will not have the WinFS file system because that would have held it up for too long. All WinFS really was was a manager for the various file systems you had, NTFS and FAT would act as "plugins" and you could mount and use files with ease across file systems. Quite a few things got cut out of Windows Vista and the final release is still a long ways off.

One thing that I did not like was the invasion of more [censored] "Help" features. If the user needs a pretty, Fisher-Price-like environment for something as serious as the Control Panel, that user shouldn't be fiddling with the control panel (some would say most users shouldn't even fiddle with the power button to begin with...but I digress). When I search, I also don't need a small squad of animated characters to assume that I have the attention span of a ADHD-riddled 5 year old who just had a cereal bowl of sugar and crushed ritalin pills and then proceed to do "cute" things (that take up memory by the way) whilst my search goes on.

The Aero interface looks nice, but that is about it. There is no amazingly handy ability that Aero introduces above the standard interface. Why not just make it look like whatever interface you have been comfortable with so far from Windows and then use the new "Power" towards other, more productive things?

icantux · #17 Post by **icantux** » Mon May 29, 2006 7:54 pm

christopher_wolf wrote:When I search, I also don't need a small squad of animated characters to assume that I have the attention span of a ADHD-riddled 5 year old who just had a cereal bowl of sugar and crushed ritalin pills and then proceed to do "cute" things (that take up memory by the way) whilst my search goes on.
...

Why not just make it look like whatever interface you have been comfortable with so far from Windows and then use the new "Power" towards other, more productive things?

But... but ... it's revolutionary!

Remember, Microsoft didn't remain a multi-billion dollar industry for nothing. They have ways to make people buy whatever they offer. They call these things "value added features". Functional? heck no. Useful? absolutely not...

That's what really puts me off about MS... They have a few good products, but the way they usurp unsuspecting computer users is beginning to piss me off.

HA! reminds me way back when Microsoft introduced Win95 with all the fanfare fit for first human-alien encounter... I worked at a store (electronics shop) and people would call to ask when they could buy Win95 without realizing that they needed a computer to run this "win95"... HA HA... All because it was a "revolutionary" product.. and people wanted, nay - had to have this revolutionary product.

Guess what - this still happens albeit in different terms.. Hee hee!

w0qj · #18 Post by **w0qj** » Wed May 31, 2006 10:31 pm

To be fair, Win'XP-Pro offered many more user friendly features over previous Windows releases (such as Win'98se).

For example, Win'XP supports foreign language (Unicode) files/folders names on English version of Win'XP-Pro. A number of MS applications (MS Office'XP, media player) supports these (ie: you can open/work with files).

The problem is, quite a number of MS applications (eg: imaging software is a very noticable one), and many other branded programs simply don't understand foreign language file/folders.

eg: some antivirus scanners simply miss these file/folders, many MP3/WMA player programs don't support these.
Even iTunes only very recently implemented support for this.

- - - - - - -
As for upcoming Windows-Vista, I'm not thrilled about the Aero Glass interface (especially since it's very hard to tell which is the active windows! Just try pressing [Delete]--i'm not certain which Window will delete things!).

However, Vista seems to have many exciting changes under the hood... so maybe i'll consider upgrading my T42s (2373-k5h) to Windows-Vista:

500 Hours of test on Windows Vista
http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/31/ ... index.html

Improved IE7 (big deal--i'm already using FireFox with all these feature *now*).
http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/31/ ... age11.html

Better network troubleshooting wizard (this looks like Access Connecdtions, by the way):
http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/31/ ... age12.html

Built-in hard drive encryption (even Tomshardware could not get this to work!)
http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/31/ ... age19.html

and the list goes on and on...
looks like it's worth looking into...

[Edit: Tomshardware's Conclusion about Aero Glass is telling:
http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/31/ ... age40.html

"It remains to be seen whether users will still enjoy the many colored effects in Vista after they've seen them for a while, or will decide to turn them off in favor of a normal default Windows scheme with gray windows.

Either way, Vista incorporates many small but effective changes that can help simplify work and also boost productivity for everyday tasks. Many of these small details don't manifest themselves to ambitious users until weeks or months of exposure to Vista, and are easy to miss when working with early versions of this system."]

brentpresley · #19 Post by **brentpresley** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 7:11 am

Just DLed and installed Beta 2 on the T42 in my sig and have to say that Vista is a . . . . PIG.

Took 12GB of HD space and booting takes 650MB RAM.

Comon, how rediculous is that?!?!?!

I'm also not a big fan of the integrated Digital Rights Management they put in to appease the MPAA and RIAA.

But . . .
I'm sure joe sixpack will buy new HW for the cutsie interface, so with that said - I think I'm going to go out and buy intel stock (near a 52-wk low, btw - great time to buy). The new Core 2 processors coming out in a month (which SPANK the AMD Athlons and Opterons, BTW) are going to be an absolutely necessity for a pleasant experience w/ this OS. So sales should be great.

#20 Post by **GomJabbar** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 7:49 am

brentpresley wrote:I think I'm going to go out and buy intel stock (near a 52-wk low, btw - great time to buy).

Thanks for the tip!

brentpresley wrote:...Vista is a . . . . PIG.

Took 12GB of HD space and booting takes 650MB RAM.

Comon, how rediculous is that?!?!?!

Thinkhead · #21 Post by **Thinkhead** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:35 am

You can be sure that all the Vista eyecandy will suck serious battery power. I even stay with the W2k look in XP.

I will not upgrade my licenses. Of course, if you buy new, there is no way to get around Vista.

w0qj · #22 Post by **w0qj** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 9:58 pm

Wow! 12 GB of Windows-Vista system files?
That's 15% of my 100 GB 2.5" notebook HDD...

Here's another interesting angle on whether to upgrade to Vista on your pre-existing notebook computer:

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1972452,00.asp

Where Are the Vista Killer Apps?
By Mary Jo Foley
June 6, 2006

Users don't buy operating systems for operating systems' sake; they buy them for the applications that run on them.
ADVERTISEMENT

Given that truism, it's not too early to wonder about the whereabouts of Windows-Vista-optimized apps.

[The short answer is: there's none right now, especially with the newly filed lawsuits between MS vs. Adobe & MS vs. Symantec]...

#23 Post by **GomJabbar** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 10:12 pm

w0qj wrote:Users don't buy operating systems for operating systems' sake.

I don't believe that applies to some of the users on this forum.

ARD · #24 Post by **ARD** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:53 pm

Well, I collect operating systems.
Does that count?

duckylam · #25 Post by **duckylam** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 2:42 pm

Well, among all the complaints with Vista (I like to whine about ram, disk space and worthless Aero interface too), one thing that I do like is the new start menu/run command. Much better than XPs

christopher_wolf · #26 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 4:57 pm

ARD wrote:Well, I collect operating systems.
Does that count?

Do you have DEMOS? It is an old Soviet clone of BSD, used to run on older IBM and DEC systems, made it into version 3 last I heard; been looking for an install image of it ever since.

ARD · #27 Post by **ARD** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:51 pm

christopher_wolf wrote:
ARD wrote:Well, I collect operating systems.
Does that count?
Do you have DEMOS? It is an old Soviet clone of BSD, used to run on older IBM and DEC systems, made it into version 3 last I heard; been looking for an install image of it ever since.

No I don't sorry.

christopher_wolf · #28 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 1:03 am

ARD wrote:
christopher_wolf wrote: Do you have DEMOS? It is an old Soviet clone of BSD, used to run on older IBM and DEC systems, made it into version 3 last I heard; been looking for an install image of it ever since.
No I don't sorry.

Awwww, hmmmm; that is still one of the few OSes on my "OSes to Find, Collect, and Use" list. I haven't been able to find any image of anything related directly to it on the web....I am starting to think I would have to get it the old fashioned way.

440roadrunner · #29 Post by **440roadrunner** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 2:50 pm

"Is Vista Worth it?"

Not only is it not worth "it" Microshaft needs to go back to the drawing board. Of three test machines, all faster than 2ghz, and all with at least 512mb of RAM, only one works with Vista. One refused to finish loading/installing, and the other had the video so screwed up that it was impossible to do anything with it.

The new Exploder is a mess. There is no trace of the old menu on top, and I had difficulty figuring out how to do much of anything. MicroBill and his Buddies need to trash this mess and start over. I won't be buying this product, or whatever the retail is gonna be called, anytime soon.

pphilipko · #30 Post by **pphilipko** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:18 pm

440roadrunner wrote:"Is Vista Worth it?"

Not only is it not worth "it" Microshaft needs to go back to the drawing board. Of three test machines, all faster than 2ghz, and all with at least 512mb of RAM, only one works with Vista. One refused to finish loading/installing, and the other had the video so screwed up that it was impossible to do anything with it.

The new Exploder is a mess. There is no trace of the old menu on top, and I had difficulty figuring out how to do much of anything. MicroBill and his Buddies need to trash this mess and start over. I won't be buying this product, or whatever the retail is gonna be called, anytime soon.

You might want to think about withdrawing those comments before the finished products actually ship! I'm not trying to be a Microsoft fanboy or anything, but obviously there's going to be some bugs initially...after all, who's ever heard of a bug-less product at inital launch nowadays?

IMHO, anything is better than those Apples.

Is Vista Worth it?

Is Vista Worth it?

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