[Warning] Don't install "PC-Doctor 5"

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eTools · #91 Post by **eTools** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:30 pm

Do you mean by the end of November?

Make sure you do run the restore in safe mode or it probably won't work.

USSS · #92 Post by **USSS** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:08 pm

sprey wrote:I am going to restore point (sometime before November) and give that a shot. Arggh!!!

Be sure to run System Restore in SAFE MODE; otherwise you might receive a message that (paraphrasing here): "System Restore was unable to restore your computer to [date of restore point]."

In Safe Mode, you access System Restore via Start > Help & Support.

Let us know if you succeed as at least 4 other members (including myself) have been able to resolve this issue using this solution.

EDIT: Oops, eTools beat me to the punch

larrya · #93 Post by **larrya** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 1:38 am

Some people were worried about loosing their data if they did a R&R. What I did was an R&R restore but only the Windows components, which is one of the options. My backup was 4 months old so I had to install Windows updates and any programs that I had updated or installed since then. But the big issue is that no data was lost.

I have contacted IBM here in Australia (I'm former IBM specialist) and gave them this forum to read - they had not heard of this problem even they do most of Lenovo hardware support for Aus. They are escalating it to the powers-that-be so maybe some pressure from IBM might help get this resolved.

#94 Post by **bill bolton** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:13 am

larrya wrote:I have contacted IBM here in Australia (I'm former IBM specialist) and gave them this forum to read - they had not heard of this problem

I can assure you that it has been called to them, so that's rather odd!

Cheers,

Bill

aki009 · #95 Post by **aki009** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 2:10 pm

The problem is with the silent uninstall in a few releases of PC-Doctor 4, which is triggered if you uninstall using the Thinkpad tools instead of the Control Panel Software Uninstall.

If you perform a normal uninstall before installing 5, you should be fine, but don't take my word for it. Make a restore point before trying.

BTW, PCD5 is well worth upgrading to.

sprey · #96 Post by **sprey** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 4:13 pm

eTools wrote:Do you mean by the end of November?

Make sure you do run the restore in safe mode or it probably won't work.

The culprit update was posted sometime between October 15 and November 1. So...any restore period prior to that should work (which for me, would be around the beginning of November).

Also...THANKS for the Safe Mode hint for the Restore, after 10 unsuccessful "restore attempts" (getting real nervous)...in Safe Mode, NO PROBLEM!!!!!!

USSS · #97 Post by **USSS** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 4:27 pm

sprey wrote:Also...THANKS for the Safe Mode hint for the Restore, after 10 unsuccessful "restore attempts" (getting real nervous)...in Safe Mode, NO PROBLEM!!!!!!

FWIW, I have never been able to run Windows System Restore except in Safe Mode on my T43. I'm not sure if this is characteristic of all Thinkpads running Windows XP Pro, but this turned out to be the quickest fix for the PC Doctor 5/Control Panel Add-Remove Programs (ARP) issue since I first posted it about 10 days ago.

Credits to Christopher Wolf for correctly diagnosing the root problem as an improperly configured installer for PC Doctor 5.

#98 Post by **Kyocera** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 4:51 pm

FWIW, I have never been able to run Windows System Restore except in Safe Mode on my T43

I use system restore as a "get rid of vendor software" I have to install on my systems and have not ever had to run it in safe mode on any t series. Sounds like you have another issue going on there.

sprey · #99 Post by **sprey** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:21 pm

Another suggestion...I moved to a different folder all the updates since the "bad update" that had been saved in "c:drivers, c:ibmtools, c:swtools to a different folder.

Why reload a bad driver and do this restore thing all over again? I think forcing the system to download NEW drivers insures the bad driver will not be loaded.

My $0.02...USD of course!

spwhiting@ · #100 Post by **spwhiting@** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:36 pm

Does anyone know if IBM/LENOVO has a download that will fix the CP/ARP problems without doing a system restore and when it will be available?

t41user · #101 Post by **t41user** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:46 pm

I have asked the same question on this forum with no proposed answers. Although I am a real novice, my impression is that neither PC Doctor nor Lenovo will make any attempt to fix any problems already caused by the former PC Doctor 5 installer. Rather, I think PC Doctor is going to provide Lenovo with another version of PC Doctor packaged with an installer that will not harm any additional computer systems. My understanding is that no specfic fix of any kind for already negatively affected users is being attempted by PC Doctor or Lenovo. (At best, one of them might provide us with information about what the PC Doctor 5 installer did to cause any problems.)

In my case, I used recovery CDs to restore my computer to factory image, then I reinstalled all software, program updates, and drivers, and will reload backed up data files little by little. By the way, the HPA function or whatever it is called did not work (or at least I could not get it to work), and the recovery CDs failed three times before I got them to work. Nonetheless, after about 15 hours of work, my computer is running fine now.

DavidNZ · #102 Post by **DavidNZ** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 8:25 pm

what looks to be a new version of PCD5 has appeared:

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-52871

I'm downloading now and should be able to do an install in a few hours.

For what it's worth, at the moment I am unable to uninstall most applications in the ARP CP and SI seems to think I need quite a few updates/drivers (which is false), so we'll see what kinds of things happen with this new version. *Definitely* doing a sys restore point before.

marvin · #103 Post by **marvin** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 10:15 pm

I have not installed the new PCD5, I did the following -using windows add/remove I unstalled PCD5 then I rebooted in safe mode and performed a 'system restore' to a known good date ( if you used thinkpads software installer you can check the install log for the date you installed PCD5 c:\drivers\install log.txt ).

Note: don't wait too long - System Restore has a size limit you may overwrite your last good restore date!

ps. PCD5 new install txt has the following statement:

This package installs the full version of PC-Doctor 5 for Windows.
This version of PC-Doctor for Windows includes the Lenovo
Troubleshooting Center that will help you fix problems with your
computer. but Software Installer has not recommended PCD5 as of 11-15-06

t41user · #104 Post by **t41user** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 10:42 pm

I, for one, have no desire whatsoever to install any new version of PC Doctor. Sure, it seems like an excellent diagnostic program. However, after a program that is supposed to help people and their computers actually harmed hundreds (is it less - dozens, or is it more - thousands?) of computer systems, I have no desire to give it another chance. Maybe if PC Doctor released a companion product called PC Doctor X for PC Doctor Y and spent a fair amount of money advertising it as a product that will determine if a specific version of PC Doctor is going to harm your computer, then I would give them a second chance.

"Brand new - PC Doctor X. This version of PC Doctor is specially designed to determine whether another version of PC Doctor, such as PC Doctor Y, is going to harm your computer."
- sounds like a much needed product and advertisement to me

DavidNZ · #105 Post by **DavidNZ** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 11:26 pm

Well, installation was smooth enough (as it was the last time), but the problems of a reduced and non-functional ARP CP still exist (as they were before).

So, a re-cap of my situation:

1. Uninstalled the original PCD that came with the X40 (late October)

2. Installed first iteration of PCD5.

3. ARP CP and SI driver info messed up as a result

4. Could not do a sys restore as restore points did not pre-date PCD5 install (found out about problems listed in #3 above too late, so restore points gone)

5. removed PCD5.

6. TODAY: installed PCD5 (new version) and problems with SI and ARP CP remain.

I'm pretty sure I followed the instructions to the letter throughout.

*sigh*

t41user · #106 Post by **t41user** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:26 am

Victims of PC Doctor 5 have my sympathy - I'm a victim too. However, there seems to be no reason to expect a corrected version of PC Doctor 5 to correct the problems caused by the faulty installer packaged with the earlier version of PC Doctor 5. PC Doctor is a program that diagnoses hardware. As far as I know, there is no function or part of PC Doctor that diagnoses the registry or the Add/Remove function of Windows. The best that we should expect or hope for is that further/future editions of PC Doctor will not be packaged with an installer that deletes or changes registry keys about what programs you have installed on your computer.

#107 Post by **GomJabbar** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:57 am

I agree with t41user above. I suspect after this episode, PC Doctor will not get caught with this installer problem again.

@DavidNZ - If you do not have a backup that you can restore to, then a restore to factory contents or a fresh install of Windows is the only solution that I can see that will get your system whole again. In the meantime, I suspect your system is still usable, but I believe you will have problems upgrading existing software. So one of these days you are going to have to "bite the bullet" and start fresh.

DavidNZ · #108 Post by **DavidNZ** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 2:46 am

You're spot on, GomJabbar - in fact, I came to that realisation as soon as it became apparent that I had no sys restore points to select. Oh well. I backup my working files to three external hard drives, but I don't bother with RnR or True Image as I'm more concerned with keeping my data backed up. I have all CDs and installer files necessary, so come the new year, and once I get Office 2007, I'll be doing a full system reload, as I tend to do every year anyway.

Don't get me wrong, still love my little X40. Last week, the Service Adviser at our local BMW dealership asked about it while I was getting some work done in their lounge as the car was getting the oil changed: "Is it new? It looks so little!" "Erm, nope - 2.5 years old!"

Nick Y · #109 Post by **Nick Y** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 2:57 am

I see that PC Doctor has returned to the download list.

Version: 5.00.4329.01
Release Date: 2006/11/15

File names:
pcd5setup_4329.exe 40,905,192 PC-Doctor 5 for Windows

pcd5setup_4329.txt 2,106 Installation instructions for PC-Doctor 5 for Windows

eTools · #110 Post by **eTools** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 3:39 pm

If I uninstall PC4 and install PC5 is anything corrupted? How about if PC4 is not uninstalled?

If anyone has or is willing to fidn these answers it would be much appreciated. Just trying to clear things up.

Thanks.

sprocket1100 · #111 Post by **sprocket1100** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 7:40 pm

Nick Y wrote:I see that PC Doctor has returned to the download list.

Version: 5.00.4329.01
Release Date: 2006/11/15

File names:
pcd5setup_4329.exe 40,905,192 PC-Doctor 5 for Windows

pcd5setup_4329.txt 2,106 Installation instructions for PC-Doctor 5 for Windows

Well it's the 17th today and after reading all the past issues here regarding PCD 5 and its poor installation / working history, decided when I saw the above comment about PCD 5’s re appearance. I naively though ok it’s fixed and must be ok now?

I will not bore you all with the explicit details because there is still a fault with PCD 5 in my opinion. While it is good people here can get quite analytical and dissect into minute detail the problems they have encountered, at the end of the day this thread has more than enough information to try and get the problem resolved by the people who wrote this software.

Basically the following was done by me:

De installed my previous version of PCD, re booted and installed PCD 5, did not run PCD 5 straight away but re booted the laptops.

After Windows (XP) came up to a ready state a window popped up at the same time informing me that “Outpost firewall has detected a problem and may be resolved by re installing” I try to move my mouse to click the ‘ok’ box in the above and it froze. In fact the whole laptop had locked up.

I ended up having to use the power button to power off / on the laptops and de install PCD 5 and as a precaution re install my fire wall because I was not prepared to take a chance. Since doing the above my laptops are now running ok again.
At the end of the day both my T42 and R40 were running ok for their everyday tasks. Today the 17th I install Version: PCD 5.00.4329.01 Release Date: 2006/11/15 and that’s when the above problems started. Prior to installing PCD 5 I’ve not installed anything or altered any running components of the laptops for quite a while (with the exception of antivirus / spyware updates. At the end of the day everything was running ok until PCD 5 was installed – So yet another warning, maybe it’s not ‘fixed’ yet?

#112 Post by **jdhurst** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:40 pm

We are having many different experiences here. Since I was fortunate enough to be here *before* PC Doctor 5, I uninstalled PC Doctor 4 first, then installed V5 and all worked. Today I uninstalled V5 and installed the new V5 (4329) and it worked along with Software Installer and Add Remove Programs. That is no surprise sinc 4240 was working as well. It is also no help to those having problems. ... JD Hurst

venik · #113 Post by **venik** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 5:40 pm

As we like to say in my lab-- Who needs viruses when we have WINDOWS (augmented, of course, by the wonderful PC "Doctor")?

intelliot · #114 Post by **intelliot** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:22 am

What exactly is "R&R"? What is the best way to make backups for a ThinkPad?

#115 Post by **GomJabbar** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 2:21 am

R&R or RNR is short for Rescue and Recovery. In older ThinkPad computers you find it in Start > All Programs > Access IBM > Rapid Restore Ultra 4.0 (or named something similar). Newer ThinkPads have it in Start > All Programs > ThinkVantage > Rescue and Recovery (if I am not mistaken). This is IBM/Lenovo's program for doing backups to CD's, DVD's, internal hard drive, external hard drive, or network drive. R&R has some advantages, but it is slow.

R&R also refers to the Rescue and Recovery workspace which you get to by pressing the blue Access IBM button or ThinkVantage button at the beginning of the boot sequence. From here you can restore a backup that you have made previously as well as do other maintenance tasks. You can also boot into R&R from a Rescue Media CD.

If you own the ThinkPad in question, press the blue Access IBM or ThinkVantage button while in Windows to learn about all the features included in your ThinkPad, such as R&R.

dagordon · #116 Post by **dagordon** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 11:31 am

I don't think I can adequately describe just how infuriating this problem is.

A couple of days ago I noticed the Add/Remove Programs problem. Not only were the Remove/Change buttons gone, but there were a couple of unrecognizable entries (alm, BUM, TPNala Wallpaper), which particularly freaked me out (despite the many precautions that I take, I figured that I might have been infected with something).

So I pretty much instantely reimaged my system. Over the past couple of days I've been slowly rebuilding it. Last night before going to bed I noticed that the problem had returned! A search of these forums revealed the cause. (I had searched here the first time but for whatever reason didn't come up with anything.)

So now I'm reimaging again. System Restore is not an option for me (I need my system to be rock solid, and past experience with System Restore has been that it leaves systems in less than rock solid condition).

In my case it was System Update that did me in -- it suggested that I install the PC Doctor 5 update, which I did.

What is absolutely infuriating is that the faulty software is STILL being made available to people. This is completely inexcusable. Lenovo has known about this problem for some time now. The problem is equivalent to a piece of software that they are distributing being infected with a virus. Upon learning of the problem Lenovo should have IMMEDIATELY pulled the affected software. Why this was done is absolutely mind-boggling.

At some point someone is going to get really [censored] off by this issue and is going to contemplate legal action. The point is not that Lenovo made available software which destroyed people's computers. This happens from time to time, of course, and software companies are not generally liable for what happens. But in this case Lenovo has KNOWN about the problem for some time and apparently refuses to take any action. It's hard to see how this isn't just recklessness on their part.

t41user · #117 Post by **t41user** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 9:09 pm

dagordon, i agree with you about how serious and infuriating the problem is. On the other hand, we might want to keep in mind a couple of things. First, within a few days of me patiently and carefully informing PC-Doctor of the problem, the PC-Doctor people got Lenovo to take down the link to the PC-Doctor 5 version with the faulty silent installer. (For several days up until that point, Lenovo continued to deny the actual problem.) Second, I see no cause for legal action. I haven't checked lately or on PC-Doctor particularly, but most software installation companies/packages have people agree to (accepting (responsibility for)) any negative consequences of the installation. Third, I believe that the current link to the current link to PC-Doctor is to a version of PC-Doctor that does not cause any problems. Perhaps some systems might have downloaded the problematic version, only to be installed at a later date by people who did not know about the problems.

This whole incident has brought be back to my old policy of not fixing things unless they're broke - of not updating software unless there is a serious problem with the old software, etc. The damage that the PC-Doctor faulty installer did to my computer took me about 10 to 20 hours overall to fix. It would be nice if Lenovo wrote me an apology, or gave me a free piece of hardware or something, but I'm sure that the cost-benefit-analysis people correctly saw that the overall profit maximizing thing to do was just link to a corrected version of PC-Doctor and do virtually nothing else.

dagordon · #118 Post by **dagordon** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 9:24 pm

t41user wrote:dagordon, i agree with you about how serious and infuriating the problem is. On the other hand, we might want to keep in mind a couple of things. First, within a few days of me patiently and carefully informing PC-Doctor of the problem, the PC-Doctor people got Lenovo to take down the link to the PC-Doctor 5 version with the faulty silent installer. (For several days up until that point, Lenovo continued to deny the actual problem.) Second, I see no cause for legal action. I haven't checked lately or on PC-Doctor particularly, but most software installation companies/packages have people agree to (accepting (responsibility for)) any negative consequences of the installation. Third, I believe that the current link to the current link to PC-Doctor is to a version of PC-Doctor that does not cause any problems. Perhaps some systems might have downloaded the problematic version, only to be installed at a later date by people who did not know about the problems.

The second time the problem happened for me was yesterday: with a copy of System Update downloaded YESTERDAY to a newly imaged machine. Maybe the direct link to the software from the driver downloads page has been corrected, but System Update, at least, is still pulling the faulty version.

This is what particularly upset me: the PC Doctor update trashed my freshly imaged system!

When I told this to Lenovo support last night (actually, early this morning) they said something like, "Oh, we don't reccomend using System Update, it can cause systems to become unstable." Fantastic. Then why are you making it available for download?

spwhiting@ · #119 Post by **spwhiting@** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 9:02 am

Dagordon downloaded PC Doc on 22 December 2006 and still experienced problems.

Are there others who have downloaded the 'new' PC Doc that have had the ADD/REMOVE section of the Control Panel ruined? If so, then IBM/LENOVO have an obligation (moral, ethical, whatever) to remove the PC Doc from their driver matrix and replace it only after it has been fully tested successfully.

t41user · #120 Post by **t41user** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 12:09 pm

spwhiting@ I totally agree. However, it's not clear to me whether the currently linked version of PC Doctor causes any problems. Could the automatic update processes (such as system update, or whatever they're called) be downloading PC Doctor 5 from the old link to the faulty version rather than from the new link to the corrected version?

I don't trust automatic updates myself (even for critical updates) and update everything on my computer manually and piece by piece. I haven't heard anyone complain about PC Doctor for at least a few weeks now.

The people at PC Doctor seem to know what they're doing (whereas the people at Levono seem frequently to give people horrible advice - e.g. when this problem first arose, instead of admitting a problem and trying to resolve/fix it, Lenovo told many people to keep trying to download and reinstall more programs, including the PC Doctor and its faulty installer). If anyone is unsure about PC Doctor and a certain link to it, why not contact PC Doctor tech support and ask them? Each time I contacted them, they got back to me pretty quickly with an intelligent and reasonable response. As for Lenovo, I don't trust them anymore. I love my T41 and the support for it provided by IBM in Georgia. However, I'm probably going to get a comparable Dell laptop once Vista has been out for a while.

[Warning] Don't install "PC-Doctor 5"

Using IBM R&R after the PC Dr debacle

Re: Using IBM R&R after the PC Dr debacle

The underying issue

no such luck

Re: no such luck

why give it another chance?

what did you expect?

PCD 5

upsetting, i agree, but let's be careful not to go too far

Re: upsetting, i agree, but let's be careful not to go too f

agree, but

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