Software installer vs System update 2

Message

mlli4 · #1 Post by **mlli4** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:51 am

Recently, I upgraded my hard disk. Then I made a fresh Windows XP install. Software installer is really handy. I just need to install it and ask it to find the driver I have backuped. In 15 minutes, all drivers are properly installed. On the other hand software update 2 requires Dot Net 1.1 to run. When it runs, system update 2 will try to download the update from internet, even if there is local copy. Personally, I think the old Software installer is simpler and better. What is your opinion?

#2 Post by **GomJabbar** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:57 am

That's a no-brainer. Software Installer all the way.....

To bad Lenovo is planning to ditch Software Installer for System Update.

It would be nice if this poll could change their minds.

mhm · #3 Post by **mhm** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:02 am

To bad Lenovo is planning to ditch Software Installer for System Update.

Really?

That's really bad. A lot of new packages just add support for new systems. If I don't need them why would I risk installing it automatically and introduce a new bug?

Let's vote and make Lenovo hear us (they have the choice to ignore buy hey...).

#4 Post by **jdhurst** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:56 am

This poll is running 100 percent in favour of Software Installer just now. SI offers much, much more flexibility that Software Updater at this point. We need Lenovo to re-write SU if that is the product they intend to keep. The key feautures SU needs are:

1. The ability to run without being connected to the internet.
2. The ability to inventory what you have and display it.
3. The ability to install what you may have downloaded manually and exploded into C:\Drivers\Windows folder. The reason for this is to be able to download a bunch of updates, explode them, and then install one-by-one and test in-between. I know lots of people won't bother with this, but those of us who attempt to test things first like to be able to backtrack if there is a problem. SU just blitheringly updates whatever, and if it hoses your machine - too bad.
4. The ability to connect to the internet and find new updates and then install (or not install) at the user's pleasure.

SU as it sits is a complete non-starter (my opinion - based on useage over several years). It need intelligent re-write as to capability and the way it runs.
... JD Hurst

#5 Post by **Kyocera** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 6:18 pm

I'm sure we've all heard that old saying "if it ain't broke don't fix it" that definately applies here. I have tried several times to use the System Updater plugged in to various T1 connections and would actually get the "the server has lost connection" or some crap like that, very frustrating.

Nick Y · #6 Post by **Nick Y** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 1:46 am

I think that both need to be deleted and rewritten into one new application; the current situation of both is that they are sub-standard.

S/W U/D II offers a useful route to finding out what it is that you are going to install, whereas S/W Inst doesn't.

According to dagordon 'When I told this to Lenovo support last night (actually, early this morning) they said something like, "Oh, we don't reccomend using System Update, it can cause systems to become unstable." Fantastic. Then why are you making it available for download?' (From http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 5&start=90
Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 2:24 am )

I used S/W Inst yesterday as posted on the T40 forum, for one recommended -bluetooth - and two required updates. It stopped my Bluetooth mouse working; tried to install an Ethernet update and failed; tried to install Winbond update and failed. -The latter is already installed at the same version. Still trying to work out the 'required' Ethernet upgrade as the required version is not on the T43 driver matrix!

Up until recently S/W U/D II wanted to to install the Power Maximiser, which I believe to be way out of date, dated 2005 IIRC, and superceeded by what I have installed.

Quite frankly, I no longer trust either and that is not a very good situation for a fairly essential s/w utility.

JPOESQ · #7 Post by **JPOESQ** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 3:00 pm

Interesting, but Software Installer and System Update seem to find different updates. For example, Software Installer will find a Bluetooth update that System Update will not find. On the other hand, System Update finds an update to WinDVD that Software Installer does not find.

Sounds like we need to run both for now in order to get all of the available updates.

#8 Post by **bill bolton** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 7:38 pm

Given some of the discussion above..... what functionality is actually required (including functionality that may not be in either tool right now) as distinct from which particular tool is best?

What's the functionality shopping list for tool to keep your ThinkPad is good "fettle", from a system software point of view?

Cheers,

Bill

#9 Post by **GomJabbar** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 7:55 pm

There seems to be a recurring problem (both tools are guilty, I believe) that the Wireless Driver Software/Access Connections upgrade often goes awry. IMHO, these tools need to uninstall Access Connections, then uninstall the existing Wireless Driver Software before performing a Wireless Driver Software upgrade. If necessary, Access Connections can be reinstalled on the next reboot. There could be a notice referencing the fact that updater needs to be run again after reboot.

Too many users are having problems just letting the updater install everything it finds.

Secondly, regarding Software Installer, couldn't it use the information stored in the Registry for Add or Remove Programs to provide a list of the installed IBM/Lenovo software and drivers? Too often Software Installer does not properly show what is actually installed. Regarding System Update, I have not used it except for trying it out a couple of times when it came out earlier in the year. I really don't know it's behavior as well as Software Installer's, so if the above is not true with System Update 2, please forgive my ignorance.

andrzej · #10 Post by **andrzej** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:18 am

Software Installer a few bugs

A. two different lists explained by the same Software Installer
biger> View driver and application version information
>> Package name | Version
smaller> Find Updated Packages > Install Package
>> Package name | Importance | Available Versions | Installed Version

B. few drvs explained several times in the list
in my case
- 2* Intel(R)PRO/1000 PL Network Connection 9.2.50.10
- 3* ThinkPad Bluetooth with Enhanced Data Rate Software 5.1.0.2100

C. lack of - ThinkPad Hotkey Features Setup 1.31.0610

details were explained by me
post RE: ThinkPad firmware http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 1&start=19 link

Puppy · #11 Post by **Puppy** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:20 am

andrzej wrote:B. few drvs explained several times in the list
in my case

You have to uninstall the driver first, reboot, install new version and reboot.

andrzej · #12 Post by **andrzej** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:50 am

Merry Christmas & Best wishes - tx
Puppy
...You have to uninstall the driver first,
reboot,
install new version
and reboot...

FYI above are the latest drvs versions

BTW sorry to say but I desparately need 'NIC drv'
in my case mentioned
Intel(R)PRO/1000 PL Network Connection 9.2.50.10
for my the Internet connection
- so I need it for upd & new install

#13 Post by **GomJabbar** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 9:18 am

andrzej wrote:BTW sorry to say but I desparately need 'NIC drv'
in my case mentioned
Intel(R)PRO/1000 PL Network Connection 9.2.50.10
for my the Internet connection
- so I need it for upd & new install

There you go... Ethernet (Intel PRO/1000 LAN adapter software) for Windows 2000/XP - ThinkPad T60, T60p, X60, X60s, X60 Tablet

Nick Y · #14 Post by **Nick Y** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 9:23 am

JPOESQ wrote:...Software Installer and System Update seem to find different updates....

Correct, although I recall occasionally seeing common items.

JPOESQ wrote:...Sounds like we need to run both for now in order to get all of the available updates.

For now, yes, but both have fairly significant problems and a sensible (to my mind) rewrite would combine the two.

Why have two when the majority of users want to check for latest versions; update or decline where necessary -which means being in a position to know what the update will do and hence whether it is necessary; install automatically and then proceed to work with **confidence**. (-BTW there will always be times where some updates cannot be installed totally automatically.)

#15 Post by **GomJabbar** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 10:01 am

Nick Y wrote:-which means being in a position to know what the update will do and hence whether it is necessary

Good point

Something like Microsoft does with Windows Update - only better. If you launch Windows Update and choose the Custom button, you are presented with a list of updates. You can click on the + button to read a little about the update, and click on a link to find out even more. Something like that in Lenovo's version of updater would be great! When you run the program to get the list of available updates, it would be great to have the option to click on a link for more information on an update, with a second link to the readme file for that update.

RBob · #16 Post by **RBob** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 10:19 pm

Kyocera wrote:I'm sure we've all heard that old saying "if it ain't broke don't fix it" that definately applies here.

I believe the new policy is "It ain't broke? Well, we can fix that."

bigtiger · #17 Post by **bigtiger** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 11:08 pm

I didnot notice too much different between those two softwares, although I prefer SI to SU.

simonbrew · #18 Post by **simonbrew** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 4:51 pm

Apologies - as a newbie I started another thread on my experiences with Software Installer & Systems Update 2. Its URL is here:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... highlight=

I have pointed the other thread back to this one, in which I suggest the discussion can continue.

simonbrew · #19 Post by **simonbrew** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 10:41 am

HELP!!
I'm trying to update drivers etc on my son's T41.

I want to use SU2 because I have SU2 installed on my own T41, and it seems to work fine for me, so it's simpler to have both machines the same.

When I tried to run SU2, It said it had to uninstall Software Installer SI &/or Update Connector UC, and then to restart SU2. After uninstalling Software Installer, SU2 still failed, this time because I apparently still have Update Connector installed. However SU2 failed in its attempt to uninstall Update Connector and I can't find UC anywhere, so I can't try and uninstall it manually.

So I'm stuck with still using Software Installer - should I give up on my attempt to convert to SU2? It seems that Lenovo are hell-bent on converting to SU2, and I don't want to be left behind!

Nick Y · #20 Post by **Nick Y** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:03 am

simonbrew: Not sure what the answer is to your question, but you can always install updates manually, which may be the simplest and, I am beginning to think, the safest answer.

#21 Post by **GomJabbar** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:06 am

See if you don't have the Update Connector install program in the following directory. C:\IBMTOOLS\APPS\UPDATER

simonbrew · #22 Post by **simonbrew** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 5:57 pm

Many thanks to Nick Y & GomJabbar who gave me encouragement to struggle on.

I decided to uninstall and re-install SI, and this eventually worked, though some of the results were clearly wrong, as described above by others. Some recommended program versions were much lower level than what has already have installed by SI.

One of SI's recommended updates was to install SU2, so I did so. SI downloaded v2.00.0084 although the latest version on the website is v2.00.0084a. I decided to play safe and download 0084a manually.

0084a stopped soon after loading with a message that it was updating itself. The answer is to LEAVE WELL ALONE! DO NOT press OK for at least 60 secs, or you will cancel the self-update. After 60 secs, you can press OK to the self-updating message, and thereafter, everything seems to run OK. I now have SI & SU2 both satisfactorily installed; SU2 thinks everything is OK, though SI v4.01.0615 still thinks that I should downgrade the LAN driver from v 87.1.0 to v7.2.17.101, downgrade my BIOS from v3.21 to v3.20, and downgrade SU2 itself from 2.00.0084a to 2.00.0084.

CONCLUSION:
SU2 seems to be better informed about the correct versions of all the drivers than SI, but I agree with other correspondents above that SI has better functionality.

In reply to ComJabbar:
After doing all this work, I saw your helpful reply, so checked the IBMtools folder you recommended. Sure enough an INSTALLER for Update Connector is now where you suggested, but no UNINSTALLER, so I think that Update Connector has somehow been successfully purged during the operations above, prossibly during the re-installation of SI.

In reply to Nick Y:
I agree! I don't think I'll be trying ANY updates for at least 6 months, automatic or otherwise - Thanks again.

ashleys · #23 Post by **ashleys** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 3:21 am

I've been using Software Installer to just check my driver status for some time without any problems. Software Update was always too slow.

A couple of days ago I did a clean install of XP on my T30.
I installed all the ThinkPad drivers manually and then ran Software Installer to check their status. It showed them all at the correct level. However, Software Update showed that both WinDVD and DLA needed upgrading. This was WRONG.

I cannot see any reason *NOT* to use Software Installer. Furthermore, you can always use it to just check your levels without actaully doing the updates.

Software installer vs System update 2

Which is better Software Installer or System update 2

Software installer vs System update 2

RE: Software Installer a few bugs

Re: RE: Software Installer a few bugs

RE: reinstal the Internet connection drv

Re: RE: reinstal the Internet connection drv

See also this thread... SI v SU2

System Update 2 requires removal of Update connector - HOW?

Partial success - SU2 now working...

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