ReadyBoost on a T42P

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RMD · #1 Post by **RMD** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:55 pm

I really want to get ReadyBoost going on my T42P.

Since this machine doesn't have any built in flash readers, I was going to purchase a PCMCIA card reader of some kind. (I don't want my USB flash drive sticking out of the side of the machine.)

First, am I correct that the T42P uses PCMCIA and not CardBus?

Second, what reader should I get? In fact, are there any straight up flash disks for PCMCIA?

wallybear · #2 Post by **wallybear** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:15 pm

First, all modern ThinkPads support both the original 16-bit PCMCIA interface (now called "PC Card") and the 32-bit extension of the interface called "CardBus". So, you will want a flash card reader in the PC Card format that supprts CardBus. As far as I know, all current readers on the market are 32-bit.

Second, by saying "straight-up flash disks for PCMCIA" I think you mean a PC Card that is solely dedicated to flash memory. I have never seen such a product. All "flash card readers" in PC Card format are designed to support standard flash cards such as CompactFlash, SecureDigital, xD, MemoryStick, MMC, etc.

Finally, I want to point out that it isn't the PC Card interface that is the issue in ReadyBoost. It is the speed of the flash memory itself. Vista will test any flash memory (in a PC Card reader or a USB drive) as it is mounted. If it qualifies for ReadyBoost (i.e., it is fast enough), then Vista will ask if you want to enable the feature.

I have tested three different PC Card flash readers with several flash cards (in CompactFlash and SD form factors). Some of them work and some don't....they don't work if the flash card is too slow. Usually, you''ll find that 2GB flash cards use slow chips and that 1GB or smaller cards use fast chips.

So, whatever you choose to buy, make sure you can take it back for a refund if it doesn't qualify for ReadyBoost use.

Hope this info helps you.

#3 Post by **GomJabbar** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:55 pm

RMD wrote:In fact, are there any straight up flash disks for PCMCIA?

Yes there are. I have a couple myself. I believe they quit making them since Compact Flash came out. You can get a Compact Flash adapter that allows a Compact Flash card to plug into a PCMCIA slot.

http://www.computergate.com/products/it ... odcd=IFS38

Wallybear is correct regarding PCMCIA and Cardbus.

RMD · #4 Post by **RMD** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 8:03 pm

So what would you guys recommend? Which type of memory is typically faster? Compact Flash? SD? etc.

I know the restrictions regarding ReadyBoost and speed of the memory. The point of my question was to find specific brands of readers/memory combinations that are known to work and work well on the T42P (or other ThinkPads).

Thanks.

Temetka · #5 Post by **Temetka** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 11:25 pm

I too am interested in taking advantage of the ready boost feature. So should I get one of those 'high speed' SD cards and a cardbus adapter, or a 'high speed' compact flash card and a cardbus adapter?

Also is there a minimum amount of size required in order to take advantage of ready boot?

Thanks in advance.

Gart · #6 Post by **Gart** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 1:02 pm

I have the advanced doc for my T60p, which has the 6-1 card reader. I tried slipping a high-speed SD card into the reader and it did not qualify for SpeedBoost.

I tried my Samsung microdrive and it (obviously) didn't qualify for speed boost, and I put my 8gb flash drive directly into the usb port and it too did not qualify.

While my main motivation for all my past storage devices has been size, I now must pay attention to speed also.

Without spending any $$$, has anyone gotten a PCMCIA card reader with compact flash or SD to actually work with speedboost?

hkelley · #7 Post by **hkelley** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:30 pm

As someone who has enjoyed the benefit of ReadyBoost on my TP,
I recommend Tom Archer's MS blog which answers most of your questions about ReadyBoost including type of devices, size and speeds that are most effective. It is a quick read with plenty of good information.

http://blogs.msdn.com/tomarcher/archive ... 15199.aspx

kulivontot · #8 Post by **kulivontot** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:10 am

somewhere in that blog link, I believe they state specifically that microsoft will not support the use of memory card slots for ready-boost, and instead will only support USB-keys or other forms of more permanent flash memory. The reasoning was that they didn't want to deal with a situation where the drive was empty, but still detected in the machine. I do not know the validity of this claim, as my T60 does not have a memory card slot so I can't test. But be warned that memory card readers may not allow you to use ready-boost.

noetus · #9 Post by **noetus** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 12:56 am

kulivontot wrote:somewhere in that blog link, I believe they state specifically that microsoft will not support the use of memory card slots for ready-boost, and instead will only support USB-keys or other forms of more permanent flash memory.

It depends. I read through the post, and it seems that memory card slots WILL be supported if they don't show up as 'empty' drives when there's no card in the slop. PCMCIA card readers are often like that - a drive only shows up when there's a card there - in fact, if you think about it, it has to be that way for the multiple card readers - so you should be ok.

gotconsultants · #10 Post by **gotconsultants** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 1:08 am

Microsoft was handing out ReadyBoost 2GB Sandisk Flash drives at CES to the press... They gave out all sorts of little goodies, but [censored] off the press who were thinking that they were getting copies of Windows Vista...

Oh well... SanDisk Flash 2GB Cruzers qualify..

nutjobox · #11 Post by **nutjobox** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:21 am

they tried to give out vista to well-known web affiliates before ces, yet only received backlash for people believing they are bribing their way to vista success.

#12 Post by **tomh009** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:32 am

To find out CF and SD performance data, check out the Rob Galbraith performance database:

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_ ... p?cid=6007

While the database is focused on camera performance, it also has some computer-to-card data now.

noetus · #13 Post by **noetus** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 12:22 pm

tomh009 wrote:To find out CF and SD performance data, check out the Rob Galbraith performance database:

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_ ... p?cid=6007

I'm not sure that's the best source for test data on transfer speeds. The reason is that for Readyboost the card must be fast enough on RANDOM read/writes, and most tests (in the past) were performed on SEQUENTIAL read/writes. The reason? Most CF and SD card usage has been for digital camera use, and sequential read/write is the most important in that setup (transferring large files quickly). Readyboost, however, is specifically designed for random read/writes, when hard disk access is slow (because of the need to move the head around). Also, the speed of the card READER is also significant. The same SD or CF card will work at markedly different speeds in different Cardbus readers. So you have to watch two different performance figures, one ONE kind of test that isn't performed so often (this will change as more cards are used for Readyboost, though).

A good place to get test data on the speeds of CD and SD cards on BOTH random and sequential read/writes AND on their individual performance with different card readers is the following:

http://www.hjreggel.net/cardspeed/

Based on this info, the Panasonic Pro High Speed Cardbus SD Reader (BN-SDPC3E) with the Sandisk Extreme III 2GB SD card would be an excellent combination, **in theory**.

Incidentally, I have Transcend 2GB USB that is Readyboost capable but I notice a performance degradation with it plugged in and Readyboost enabled. The mouse gets kinda jerky and disk/processor access seems to go up. I don't know why.

#14 Post by **tomh009** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:34 pm

noetus wrote:A good place to get test data on the speeds of CD and SD cards on BOTH random and sequential read/writes AND on their individual performance with different card readers is the following:

http://www.hjreggel.net/cardspeed/

OK, that's a nice database (as well). Now, what level of random access performance should I be looking for?

Gart · #15 Post by **Gart** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:34 pm

OK. I did as much research as I could and went out and got a 4gb Cruzer Micro. It was a toss-up between two and it came down to price (Circuit City had it on sale for $80). The Cruzer site said that this drive was SpeedBoost approved...or something like that.

I plug it in, say I want to use speed boost, then I tell it I want it to use the ENTIRE drive for speed boost.

So now it's in there. How do I tell it's working? I can't find a utility that shows speed boost utilization or anything like that. I just have a nice orange glow from the Cruzer LED.

But boy does Word 2007 open FAST!!!

warder · #16 Post by **warder** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 11:49 pm

With 2GB RAM, unless you are running some SERIOUS applications, you won't really notice any difference running ReadyBoost. On your T41 you might.

You can check in the event viewer under applications/microsoft/windows/readyboost to see if it is working.

Or the performance monitor enables you to view many (boring) stats.

The purpose of ReadyBoost is to cache your page file, enabling smaller reads to come from flash rather than your hard disk. Since memory is paged more when you are low on free RAM, typically only PCs struggling with available memory will see any improvement - and then only when paging small blocks of memory.

Word loads instantly on mine, with or without ReadyBoost.

ashleys · #17 Post by **ashleys** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 3:43 am

You're right, Readyboost is just caching the pagefile.

What is different with Vista is pre-fetch which due to it's nature relies on readyboost to provide the added performance. Pre-fetching has been done for many years, usually within subsystems such as databases. However, the difference with Vista is that the decisions on what to pre-fetch is being made by the OS. Traditionally what to pre-fetch was under the control of the systems adminstrator, for example with a database application only certain indexes would be cached. We all know that letting Windows decide what's best is not always successful

#18 Post by **tomh009** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:10 am

warder wrote:The purpose of ReadyBoost is to cache your page file, enabling smaller reads to come from flash rather than your hard disk. Since memory is paged more when you are low on free RAM, typically only PCs struggling with available memory will see any improvement - and then only when paging small blocks of memory.

ReadyBoost is not just caching the page file.

ReadyBoost, which is really an extension of SuperFetch, watches for patterns of file access, and typically caches smaller files (to minimize random i/o, rather than sequential i/o experienced with reading large files). You can see some of the technical details in the presentation from the Windows hardware engineering conference last year:
http://download.microsoft.com/download/ ... 1_WH06.ppt

I am not yet running Vista myself, so I don't know how long it takes for Vista to see your usage patterns and adapt ReadyBoost to those, though. But I think ReadyBoost will only be caching the page file if your memory is too low to start with.

Gart · #19 Post by **Gart** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:12 am

That ppt was a good read.

When I went to the event viewer, I found this entry for the first time I stuck my cruzer in:

The device (SanDisk U3 Cruzer Micro) is suitable for a ReadyBoost cache. The recommended cache size is 3889152 KB. The random read speed is 3879 KB/sec. The sequential write speed is 2695 KB/sec.

So I wonder what the "Lower Limit" is for any flash drive to be suitable for ReadyBoost when it comes to i/o speeds? Is that published anywhere?

warder · #20 Post by **warder** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:02 pm

tomh009 wrote:
ReadyBoost is not just caching the page file.

ReadyBoost, which is really an extension of SuperFetch, watches for patterns of file access, and typically caches smaller files (to minimize random i/o, rather than sequential i/o experienced with reading large files). You can see some of the technical details in the presentation from the Windows hardware engineering conference last year:
http://download.microsoft.com/download/ ... 1_WH06.ppt

I happen to disagree with you here Tom. From everything I've read, including in that PPT, ReadyBoost just caches the Windows page file. Note that the page file is memory, just memory not currently paged into RAM.

Yes, it may be used by Superfetch, in that Superfetch can pre-load DLLs and apps into memory ready for use, but at the end of the day, the memory it loads it into may be in RAM or in the page file.

ReadyBoost to me appears to simply be a cache of the page file.

In the words of Matt Ayers, Program Manager in the Microsoft Windows Client Performance group and owner of the ReadyBoost feature:

What happens when you remove the drive? "When a surprise remove event occurs and we can't find the drive, we fall back to disk. Again, all pages on the device are backed by a page on disk. No exceptions. This isn't a separate page file store, but rather a cache to speed up access to frequently used data"

It is a cache of the page file.

warder · #21 Post by **warder** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:04 pm

So I wonder what the "Lower Limit" is for any flash drive to be suitable for ReadyBoost when it comes to i/o speeds? Is that published anywhere?

From the link further up in this thread:

Q: What perf do you need on your device?
A: 2.5MB/sec throughput for 4K random reads and 1.75MB/sec throughput for 512K random writes

#22 Post by **tomh009** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 12:01 pm

warder wrote:ReadyBoost to me appears to simply be a cache of the page file.

In the words of Matt Ayers, Program Manager in the Microsoft Windows Client Performance group and owner of the ReadyBoost feature:

What happens when you remove the drive? "When a surprise remove event occurs and we can't find the drive, we fall back to disk. Again, all pages on the device are backed by a page on disk. No exceptions. This isn't a separate page file store, but rather a cache to speed up access to frequently used data"

It is a cache of the page file.

Indeed it is a cache. But you are reading "page file" into Matt Ayer's quote when it's not there. (Note that a "page" does not necessarily imply a "page file".) If you want to test this, just turn off your page file and see whether ReadyBoost goes inactive.

Or we may have to just agree to disagree ...

pierro78 · #23 Post by **pierro78** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:10 am

I tried a fast 8GB transcend CF card in a Cardbus delkin adapter and I had no luck activating readyboost on the card. By the way Vista was seeing the card as a regular hard drive and I didn't have the "autoplayer dialog" when I was inserting it.

I also read here : http://www.google.com/search?q=readyboo ... bson.co.uk that readyboost does not support cardbus ...

I measured my card as indicated in http://blogs.technet.com/jamesone/archi ... nough.aspx and I had more than 4MB/s on the random read check, which is above the Readyboost requested 2.5MB/s ... I didn't have the patience to finish the random write check though ...

I hope somebody is going to find a workaround for the Cardbus Readyboost incompatibility ...

#24 Post by **tomh009** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:45 am

On XP, a CF in a Delkin adapter will show up as a removable drive. I have not yet tried with Vista though.

As for the Cardbus-ReadyFetch compatibility, I could only find the one note by "Ken" saying Cardbus wasn't compatible.

Temetka · #25 Post by **Temetka** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:08 pm

Well that settles it then. My T41P will never take advantage of reayd boost. I was hoping to use a PCMCIA compact flash or sd card reader and leave it in the slot as a permanet feature. I am not going to have a USB drive sticking out of the side of my laptop.

[censored].

zverg · #26 Post by **zverg** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:22 am

Temetka wrote:Well that settles it then. My T41P will never take advantage of reayd boost. I was hoping to use a PCMCIA compact flash or sd card reader and leave it in the slot as a permanet feature. I am not going to have a USB drive sticking out of the side of my laptop.

[censored].

Exactly.. rats. Why didn't they think people who value portability in their laptops would want to use readyboost too?

Temetka · #27 Post by **Temetka** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 12:44 am

Another [censored]:

My spelling in the last post from me was very bad. I apologize for that.

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