Windows Licensing

[Giovanni]

Microsoft ought to get a clue and stop trying so hard to stop piracy when their methods of doing so don't work anyway and merely make it difficult for people who do want to remain legal. Of course, that's the way most laws work. They only interfere with the lives of people who don't wish to break them.

I think what I did was legal, at least I hope it was. I did make my Recovery CDs and everything for my T60p in case I wanted the Lenovo stuff again, but I wanted a clean XP install, and so I used the recovery CD that came with my Dell to make one for the T60p.

Though a regular OEM disc might check BIOS and refuse to install if you try to use it on a PC of a different manufacturer, you don't have to use the actual disc. I copied the I386 folder from the Dell disc, and then used nLite to integrate SP2 and some hotfixes for the ThinkPad. I tried to integrate the Lenovo key into the installer by grabbing it from the laptop before I reformatted (which is supposed to allow you to bypass the activation when installed on that machine), but that key didn't work, as Windows asked me to activate when I got it installed.

I merely typed in the code from the bottom of the machine and used the Internet activation, and it worked fine. Since I have two valid licences for Windows (one that came with the Dell, and one that came with the ThinkPad) I think that works. Though... I may have made extra trouble for myself, as I think the I386 folder that is originally on the ThinkPad's HDD already had SP2 integrated, haha. Still, I wanted to make sure everything was ship-shape myself by hand.

[jjesusfreak01]

You conform with the spirit of the law at least. 2 licenses, 2 laptops, sounds fine to me.

[Stargate199]

I tried to integrate the Lenovo key into the installer by grabbing it from the laptop before I reformatted (which is supposed to allow you to bypass the activation when installed on that machine), but that key didn't work, as Windows asked me to activate when I got it installed.

Entering the key only does that, enter the product key for you. It will not activate Windows (only corporate versions are pre-activated for easy distribution by IT.)

[Giovanni]

I tried to integrate the Lenovo key into the installer by grabbing it from the laptop before I reformatted (which is supposed to allow you to bypass the activation when installed on that machine), but that key didn't work, as Windows asked me to activate when I got it installed.

Entering the key only does that, enter the product key for you. It will not activate Windows (only corporate versions are pre-activated for easy distribution by IT.)

I didn't integrate the key from the bottom of the machine though, I integrated the key grabbed with the Magical Jellybean Keyfinder, which is supposed to be like the already authorized key, so if you have it integrated you shouldn't need to activate at all. (From the tutorials I've read.) It didn't work though, it asked for the key anyway (I think it said the key was wrong in the Activate Windows box, so apparently it read the key and didn't like it) so instead I typed the key from the bottom of the machine and then that worked.

Either the tutorials that say you can bypass activation that way are wrong, or I didn't do it right. Either way though I got Windows activated and it seems to be happy.

@jjesusfreak01

The Dell I have is a desktop, but since I have two valid license keys for XP Pro that I paid for, I don't think it really matters where I got the files for the installation. If I had gotten them from the I386 folder on the T60p's HDD, it may have turned out exactly the same. xD However I think this does prove that you can use OEM discs from major PC manufacturers on other PCs, as long as you make a new disc by copying the I386 folder (the only one that matters) you get rid of any of the OEM stuff that might prevent the installation.

[SpeedEng]

I have a t23 hand me down from my wife (she bought a dell a year ago)
she used this laptop for school. I tried to take out alot of programs to free up space but everything is still soo slow on this laptop,

can I use the dell xp cd to do a clean install on my ibm?


Thanks for your time

[Kyocera]

no, the dell is an oem install, you'll need an xp retail or IBM recovery cd's to reinstall your OS.

[GomJabbar]

Some generic (not major brand) OEM CD's will work with the Product Key on the bottom of the ThinkPad. I do not think a DELL OEM CD will work however. I believe it checks for DELL hardware before it will install.

[SpeedEng]

Thank you for your replys!!

The coa on the t23 is xp pro
im guessing using a copy of oem mce2005 will not work correct?

and last question (sorry for all the q's )
is it legit if I buy one of those ebay restore cd's?

Thanks!

[Giovanni]

Some generic (not major brand) OEM CD's will work with the Product Key on the bottom of the ThinkPad. I do not think a DELL OEM CD will work however. I believe it checks for DELL hardware before it will install.

I used a Dell reinstallation of Windows XP disc, just copy the I386 folder off it onto your HDD and use n-Lite to create a new reinstallation disc by slipstreaming SP2 and the other hotfixes you want in accordance with the guides on this site and it'll work fine. The I386 folder doesn't contain any of the Dell junk on it that might cause the disc to puke when it sees your machine isn't a Dell.

Now if you just use the actual Dell disc itself to reinstall, I can't guarantee that will work for you.

[Elwyn]

I think this is related...

The COA and XP Pro serial number on this laptop.... are different . The SN of which this copy of XP is registered too (And activated) are present on the internet

Does this signify that I have a dodgy copy of XP installed?

FYI/BTW it came preinstalled on this machine. I haven't updated or upgraded it yet.

HCBR8 (plus the rest) is what the machine is actually using. I've googled the other code and there aren't any hits for it

Having a look on the web though I found this: http://www.intelliadmin.com/blog/2006/0 ... t-key.html

It has been interesting to read this thread, here, to work out how to actually get a legit version installed with the relevant code....

But I've already been reccomended to do a new install rather than a recovery install...

Don't look at me like that. I'm innocent. Honest. I have an alibi

[Stargate199]

As long as the COA on the computer is legit and is the original COA, you should be okay. You can check your Product key that is used for you copy of Windows by googleing for a program called Magical Jelly Bean Key Finder. If the copy of Windows is factory installed (I.E. Original hard drive with Windows installed from the factory) then the product key may not match since some OEM use a universal key for their products when they are made to make everything a lot easier.

[LPC]

I am slightly confused. Here is what I want to do and what I have.

I have a retail copy of xppro and a xppro COA with recovery partition HD on a T23 with a bad motherboard.

I want to install xppro on my Imac via Bootcamp and do a clean install on my working T23 (it does not have a COA)

Can I make install disks from the bad T23 and use them with the COA on the good T23?

Or should I use the retail copy of xppro using the COA on the badT23 and retail key on the Imac or vise versa?

Thanks,

[Stargate199]

The recovery disks will not work with anything else but a Thinkpad. Those disks check to see if the machine is running with the IBM bios (which apple's don't have). Second of all, the recovery disks will only accept an OEM license key, not a retail. To install Windows of your Intel iMac, you will need to use RETAIL XP cd. I guess you could also use an generic OEM xp cd if you had one, but I don't know if that would technically legal since this is an Apple machine.

[LPC]

Thanks Stargate for the reply.

I replaced the mobo in the T23 with the COA with the mobo from the working T23. I will use my retail copy to load XP but use the key from the COA on the T23. I will load XP on the Imac with retail copy and key.

[Stargate199]

I will use my retail copy to load XP but use the key from the COA on the T23.

That will not work using a retail copy but using a COA key. The key that is on the COA is an OEM (original equipment manufacturer) key. Only an OEM copy of Windows (like the recovery CDs) will be able to use that key. I would try to track down a copy of the recovery CDs to do the install on the T23. Otherwise you are fine on installing windows on the iMac.

[Goldberry]

Just read all of this thread and am totally confused as to how I would reinstall XP pro if I had a problem.

I recently purchased a T40 from an employee of a major accounting firm who provided the following info.

He received it from the firms lottery. It seems when their laptops warranties are up they replace the machines and offer them to employees for a very nominal price on a lottery system.

He indicated to me that it is their practice to completely wipe the hard drive clean before handing them over. It is then reloaded with XP pro. No recovery disks were available. I went into the bios predesktop area and it shows the hidden partition as disabled/empty and available for use.

So what is the best thing to do if I have to format and reinstall. I have read that I need IBM OEM XP pro install disks as these will accept the COA license. I read these can be obtained from Newegg but all I see on Newegg are OEM XP pro for $139.99. This makes no sense to me to have to spend that much to reinstall and surely these Newegg disks come with a key neaning I am buying a new license.

If I was to use Acronis or Norton Ghost and make an image of what I have would that not serve the purpose to reinstall? Of course I still have to spend for the program unless I use a trial version to make an image but I would still have to buy the program as any use of the image would be long after the trial period was up.

I may be dreaming but surely if a company paid for a license for this machine there should be some way for a subsequent owner to reinstall for a nominal fee.

[Stargate199]

Most of the time, these companies buy in bulk and only have a single set if reinstall CDs for the IT department. It would be standard procedure to wipe the computers clean of any data after use. They are not obligated to reinstall Windows after they wipe the computer clean. If they had a huge lot of these, they simply would not take the time since most of the time they sell the laptops to refurbishing vendors who will reinstall Windows and then sell the computer. You can purchase a new OEM copy of windows for NewEgg if you wish, or just look for a set of recovery CDs on eBay or here in the marketplace forum.

[polo]

Greetings,

I have read all the posts here and would like some advice. I have an A31p which came with a Win XP Pro COA and the OS factory installed. Later when I wanted to delete the recovery partition I acquired a set of recovery CDs from IBM. Sometime after that the graphics array failed and I eventually replaced the motherboard with one from an A31. That one later developed problems, too.

I recently bought a lot of three A31p machines that had come off corporate lease. They had no hard drives and all came with a Win 2000 Pro COA. My plan is to try to make three operating machines out of the bits and pieces of four that I have.

I really would like to be able to use one of them to replace or resurrect my original dead machine. I don't use Windows much at all but need to have it on rare occasion for work so would like to be able to keep the dual-boot XP and Linux. Since the hard drive is already set up to do that, all I should need to do is move it, the additional RAM, and the wireless card over and I should be set. Since I have a legitimate COA for XP Pro I feel morally and ethically sound doing this but am not sure if there will be motherboard/bios issues when I need to do updates. Also, am wondering if I need to move the motherboard into the bottom case half that has the XP Pro certificate.

As far as the remaining machines go, I plan to install Linux on both of them but it might be nice to put Win 2000 on one which I want to give my brother since he may need it to run a couple of utilities for his job that are Windows specific. I tried to see if I could order Win 2000 recovery disks from Lenovo but unfortunately they no longer offer them for these model machines. If anyone knows where I could obtain a legitiamate set of recovery disks for a 2654-BU9 or 2654-Y13 I'd be interested.

Thanks in advance for your help and I hope to be able to contribute likewise in the future.

Polo

[hellosailor]

It is more complicated than that, and the terms of the COAs change from time to time without warning.

For instance, the "to the trade" OEM versions of the OSes, the ones you buy on a new machine form a major vendor, are keyed to the BIOS and the motherboard type. If your OEM version is looking for a "BigBlue BIOS 4.5.678" that's all you can install and run it on. Burn out your motherboard, and you must replace it with the same type--or throw it out.

Then there are the "retail OEM" versions, the ones sold in trade channel for little guys to use when building and sellers computers without a big brand name and custom OS support. The retail OEM versions USED TO be tied to a computer, as defined specifically to mean "CPU, motherboard, or hard drive".

That held through NT5 (Windows2000) and Win98, for retail OEMs.

In NT4, the COA allowed multiple installations on the same computer, and even MS's own tech support recommended multiple installations on the same machine, so there was a back door for server recovery issues. With NT5, the terms changed and MS refined "hardware" to mean any widget including a keyboard, a power LED, or a case screw. ANYTHING. You betcha, I confirmed that with MS licensing division directly. But again--that was for RETAIL OEM versions. Stuff from Toshiba, IBM, and the like was still tied to the motherboard bios ONLY.

NT5 also changed the terms to one installation and one only, if you installed it twice on the same machine (say, to have an experimental version as an alternate boot) that was a violation.

XP kept those terms (it was only a dot-one upgrade to NT5.0) at first, but then they were changed AGAIN and last time I heard, MS was defining "computer" to mean "motherboard" again. They can't figure out which or who's foot to shoot in Redmond.

The only consistency is that for a big name brand (Toshiba, Dell, Lenovo, etc.) the license is for the motherboard/bios only.


On activations: MS went to great pains to clarify and publicize their policies when they brought activation into the US after trials elsewhere. There are specific counts on the components in the computer, offhand "3 and 5" and "7 and 9". What do these mean?

The activation counter, which is in the OS code, actually enumerates the hardware in your computer. It counts "so many of these little things" and "so many of these big things". And then it looks to see if you are on a notebook or desktop. Since notebooks are expected to be used docked and undocked, they get the more generous "7 and 9" count. What's being counted? Well, the CPU type is a major item. The hard drive's serial number, CD/DVD drive serial number (yes, they have them in the firmware), the amount of RAM, the LAN MAC address, all are enumerated. As long as the counts are not exceeded WITHIN A 90DAY PERIOD, you do not have to reactivate. If you do exceed the count within a 90-day period, you must reactivate.

And MS's original promise was that would be a 5-minute-or-less toll free phone call. I know several folks that have had to make that call--they've had no problems with it. Unless your product key comes up on the list of known bootlegs, or you call them way too often, they are very good about saying "Here's your new number, have a nice day".

Do I like activation? Hell no, and "Genuine Validation" sometimes just plain fails to work. Has MS done a reasonable job at making it painless? Yes. Despite all sorts of rumours and bad information.

So...on Polo's question? If the motherboards are good--you can fix the rest and reactivate them. If the motherboards are fried, your COA allows for replacing them--like for like, with the same series of motherboards, but that's all. Otherwise, you can only use your old OS to qualify for some upgrades, according to whatever upgrade offers are out there.

[hellosailor]

It is more complicated than that, and the terms of the COAs change from time to time without warning.

For instance, the "to the trade" OEM versions of the OSes, the ones you buy on a new machine form a major vendor, are keyed to the BIOS and the motherboard type. If your OEM version is looking for a "BigBlue BIOS 4.5.678" that's all you can install and run it on. Burn out your motherboard, and you must replace it with the same type--or throw it out.

Then there are the "retail OEM" versions, the ones sold in trade channel for little guys to use when building and sellers computers without a big brand name and custom OS support. The retail OEM versions USED TO be tied to a computer, as defined specifically to mean "CPU, motherboard, or hard drive".

That held through NT5 (Windows2000) and Win98, for retail OEMs.

In NT4, the COA allowed multiple installations on the same computer, and even MS's own tech support recommended multiple installations on the same machine, so there was a back door for server recovery issues. With NT5, the terms changed and MS refined "hardware" to mean any widget including a keyboard, a power LED, or a case screw. ANYTHING. You betcha, I confirmed that with MS licensing division directly. But again--that was for RETAIL OEM versions. Stuff from Toshiba, IBM, and the like was still tied to the motherboard bios ONLY.

NT5 also changed the terms to one installation and one only, if you installed it twice on the same machine (say, to have an experimental version as an alternate boot) that was a violation.

XP kept those terms (it was only a dot-one upgrade to NT5.0) at first, but then they were changed AGAIN and last time I heard, MS was defining "computer" to mean "motherboard" again. They can't figure out which or who's foot to shoot in Redmond.

The only consistency is that for a big name brand (Toshiba, Dell, Lenovo, etc.) the license is for the motherboard/bios only.


On activations: MS went to great pains to clarify and publicize their policies when they brought activation into the US after trials elsewhere. There are specific counts on the components in the computer, offhand "5 and 7" and "7 and 9" IIRC. What do these mean?

The activation counter, which is in the OS code, actually enumerates the hardware in your computer. It counts "so many of these little things" and "so many of these big things". And then it looks to see if you are on a notebook or desktop. Since notebooks are expected to be used docked and undocked, they get the more generous "7 and 9" count. What's being counted? Well, the CPU type is a major item. The hard drive's serial number, CD/DVD drive serial number (yes, they have them in the firmware), the amount of RAM, the LAN MAC address, all are enumerated. As long as the counts are not exceeded WITHIN A 90DAY PERIOD, you do not have to reactivate. If you do exceed the count within a 90-day period, you must reactivate.

And MS's original promise was that would be a 5-minute-or-less toll free phone call. I know several folks that have had to make that call--they've had no problems with it. Unless your product key comes up on the list of known bootlegs, or you call them way too often, they are very good about saying "Here's your new number, have a nice day".

Do I like activation? Hell no, and "Genuine Validation" sometimes just plain fails to work. Has MS done a reasonable job at making it painless? Yes. Despite all sorts of rumours and bad information.

So...on Polo's question? If the motherboards are good--you can fix the rest and reactivate them. If the motherboards are fried, your COA allows for replacing them--like for like, with the same series of motherboards, but that's all. Otherwise, you can only use your old OS to qualify for some upgrades, according to whatever upgrade offers are out there.

[horst696]

Hallo there,

I've got another problem...
I have an IBM R40 with a Windows XP COA Sticker underneath it, but I don't have any special Install CD's for my Laptop because I bought it in Ebay and now I want to know which Install CD I have to use. I tried it with a normaly Win XP CD with SP2 but it didn't worked.

So please help me!!!!!!!!!!!!

[hellosailor]

Horst, in the US MS allowed the OEM maker to sell "replacement media" for the computer, and MS sells the same thing themselves. You might try contacting MS over there to see if thy offer the same option, and contacting Lenovo over there to see what they have available for you.

I don't know which version is supposed to work with that machine, but it is possible that an older (XP, no SP) disc might work, since MS changed their process several times to lock out installations using some product keys that were massively misused.

[Rick the Green]

Just to add my personal experience here, T23 , old hd dead, no recovery disk.
I took a win xp pro generic OEM disc, slipstreamed with sp3, installed it with the XP PRO COA Key on the bottom of the machine, key was accepted.

Then tried to activate over the internet, didn't work, so i called MS, went on the automated process where you give the numbers to the machine, didn't work either. Then i spoke with a real person, he asked me the 1st and last groups of numbers, then he gave me the activation numbers NO questions asked whatsoever, nothing.
I thanked him and went on my happy way

[Stargate199]

Probably what happened is that the computer generated the wrong number when you called. I have had no problem calling MS for an activation code before, but hey the computer probably runs windows so this kind of stuff will happen once in a while.

[hellosailor]

I would guess the slipstream broke it, or the generic OEM substitution broke it. I *think* that the specific version of the OS is part of the enumeration process that generates the codes. So, if your COA is for "OS.0.a" and you've tried to activate a slipstreamed "OS.1.b"...it will break. You've got two "wrong" checksums being generated for the wrong OS, wrong version, versus the COA.

Computers don't generate wrong numbers--they need outside assistance to make math errors.<G>

Part of MS's process has been to intentionally "if in doubt, fail activation, get a human" and let the human figure out if they're being hoodwinked or not.

[ParatoOptimal]

I just purchased an X31 without a HDD.
It has a COA for XP-Pro.
I bought a new HDD.

1. What do I do to get XP-Pro from Lenovo or MS?
Will these discs have a recovery partition?
Is there anything I should know about installation and getting the X31 to accept the key?
The key is on the COA, right?

2. I have a Corporate XP-Pro Disc my work gave me for one install.
Can I use this on my X31 or will the X31 not accept the key?

3. In the future, I may choose to install Win7 Ultimate and Ubuntu.
I know there are issues with Aero in Win7 but are there any other install issues I should be aware of?

Thanks

[Elwyn]

I just purchased an X31 without a HDD.
It has a COA for XP-Pro.
I bought a new HDD.

1. What do I do to get XP-Pro from Lenovo or MS?
Will these discs have a recovery partition?
Is there anything I should know about installation and getting the X31 to accept the key?
The key is on the COA, right?

2. I have a Corporate XP-Pro Disc my work gave me for one install.
Can I use this on my X31 or will the X31 not accept the key?

3. In the future, I may choose to install Win7 Ultimate and Ubuntu.
I know there are issues with Aero in Win7 but are there any other install issues I should be aware of?

Thanks

1. I don't think that they do them any more but you can certainly try.
1a. "Recovery Partition" This is something that would be present on the HDD and not on optical media. Considering you don't have a HDD this point is especially important

2. The key is for an OEM copy of Windows XP and thus your Corporate XP CD won't accept it. However, you could use the licence code that comes with the disk.

3. Not sure about Windows 7 and I don't even know if the hardware will cope with it. As for Linux, there are an enormous amount of documents on the web to help you install and cope with it and your laptop. I am sure that you will have hours of fun in learning the new stuff. I know I did You might find that some of the Fn keys don't/won't work but that may have been updated by now.

Good Luck

Elwyn

[hellosailor]

Para-
In the US you would contact Lenono Support first and tell them that you want to buy replacement media for your XP system. They will probably ask you why and the simplest answer is "the drive crashed and I can't find the original disks".
You have the COA so you are entitled to use that license, keep it simple with them.

If Lenono don't have the media any more (expect them to charge about $45 if they do have it) then you can contact the Microsoft Fulfillment Department. Any of the MS support lines can connect you to them or give you the right # for them. The MFD supply replacment media, and only replacement media, to folks who otherwise have licenses but need physical media with the software on it.

Last time I checked, they would tell you first to ask Lenono, and if the OEM discs are no longer available, they will send you the retail product discs (which is all they supply) for a nominal sum, like $15 including 3rd day express shipping. These discs SHOULD work with your OEM installation key as far as I know. (The US and UK licensing and coding may vary, in the US I have used retail media with an OEM code before and it did work--on the OEM machine.)

Obviously if you use the retail media you do not get Lenono drivers, or the recovery partition, or any other OEM features. You willneed to download all the OEM drivers and your best bet is to download them to a CD/DVD and then copy them all to your new machine, presuming it will at least boot & run in a "limp home" mode until you can load them.

But with any luck, Lenono will still have discs for you.

[dsvochak]

What do I do to get XP-Pro from Lenovo or MS?

Check the marketplace here. I'f there's nothing available, post a WTB for recovery disks for your machine. It's likely someone will have a set.