Rescue and Recovery - Incremental Vs Full Backup

[Billyboy]

I've got an R51, SP2, and an external USB drive that I use for backups. I have to confess I don't understand fully what my options are for backing up with Rescue and Recovery (V3.1) and I can't find an adequate explanation in the documentation.

It APPEARS that I can only backup (incrementally) when I choose to do this on an ad hoc basis, and it APPEARS that the full backups can occur only when scheduled per the preference settings. Does that mean that if I only do ad hoc backups, I will never get another full backup (documentation says full backup after 5 incremental).

I don't have my USB drive normally turned on, so when the scheduled backup time rolls around, I usually just cancel it and do my backup later. But am I doing this incorrectly?

When I do incremental backups, I never see the message asking me if I want my USB drive to be bootable, does this only appear when doing the full backup?

Thanks

[ashleys]

I use RnR for both full and incremental backups.
I do them ALL manually. This way I control exactly when I take the backups.
I'm currently running V4.0 but it's the same with V3.1.

The first time you run a backup it will be a full backup and the name of the backup will be called 'Base'. After that, unless you delete the base level, further backups will be incremental (they may be called whatever you wish).

I usually take about 3 incrementals and then delete ALL the backups and take a new full one. I don't like keeping too many levels of incremental because, if I were to require to recover the drive, the forward recovery is messy with loads of incrementals.

[Billyboy]

Thanks, how do you delete all backups? Just reformat the drive? I'm backing up two PCs with the same USB Hard Drive, do I need to partition it? Thanks

[ashleys]

To delete backups, go to Advanced tab and select delete backups.
You will then get a list of your backups and you can select which you wish delete.

If you're backing up two PC's to same same external USB drive I would recommend that you partition the USB drive.
For example, partition the USB drive into an F: and G: drive configuration.
Attach the USB drive to the first PC and in the backup options select the USB drive as the backup location. It will then prompt you for which partition to send the backups to. Select F: and do a full backup.
Repeat the process on the second PC but select G: as the backup location and do a full backup.

After this, you will have a folder called RRBackups on both F: and G: containing your backups. I would expect problems for incremental backups if you tried to have both sets of backups in the same folder and that's why I would recommend partitioning the backup device and keeping them apart.

Rule of thumb for backups is keep it simple and make sure they work.

[Billyboy]

Thanks again, to do the partition do I need some 3rd party software (freeware) or does XP support this function (on a USB drive)

[ashleys]

You can use Disk Management in XP to do the partitioning.

Right click My Computer, click Manage and you'll be taken to "Computer Management", from within there select Disk Management. You can partition and format the drive from there.

[Billyboy]

OK, hopefully last question. When I look at the contents of the USB Drive (I've deleted all Backups), I see that I have many files that are probably due to the fact that during one of the backups I indicated I wanted the USB drive to be bootable. Can I assume it's OK to delete these (they are in the "hidden" category) - should I just reformat the drive (and if so, how do I do that?)

Thanks

[ashleys]

Yes, if you made the USB drive a bootable RnR drive then you'll have folders like Win51 etc on there. They make up the bootable pre-desktop area of RnR.

You can format the drive by either going into disk management and right clicking the drive and selecting format or doing the same from an Explorer display.

[Billyboy]

Thanks for your continued support with my issues. I’ve been able to delete previous backups and partition my USB drive. I’ve partioned it into 3 logical drives: My R51 (Drive name: Bill) my wife’s R51 (drive name Ellen) and a third partition for a Dell laptop that is dedicated to Photos (Drive name: Photos). I obviously didn’t use the Lenovo Rescue and Recovery on the third – I’m just backing up my photos with a simple backup program.

I have successfully established a Base backup for both “Bill” and “Ellen”

I can successfully recover individual files from either partition via either computer. I didn’t try a full recovery.

When I go to “View Backups” (USB hard drive) it shows me the Base backup for both “Bill” and “Ellen” (I can see these on either computer)

Note that neither “Bill” nor “Ellen” are bootable images.

I should be happy, but…… I can’t determine definitively where the data is backed up (e.g. which partition).

When I backup, there is no request from R&R for a partition under the USB drive.

When I look at the capacity used in each drive (via Windows Explorer – and the same on the two R51s) I note that:

“Bill” is using more than the Local Hard Drive for the corresponding computer (21.2GB versus 19.7GB)
“Ellen” is using FAR less than the Local Hard Dirve for the corresponding computer (64 MB versue 15.5 GB)
“Photos” is about what I would expect (3.7 GB)

What bothers me is the possibility that I’ve backed up “Ellen” on top of “Bill” – yet I can see “Bills” files distinctly when I look at restoring individual files – and I can see “Ellen’s” files distinctly when I look at restoring those individual files.

Where do you think the data is? How can I get visibility into these partitions from an R&R perspective (can’t find anything that helps)

Thanks again in advance.

[ashleys]

I can't be sure but from the disk usage you may have placed both on one partition.

However, to check, you should find an RRBackups folder on each partition that has a backups as this is where the data is stored.
By default these as hidden so you will need to go into Explorer and select the option to see hidden folders. This can be done by launching Windows Explorer, Select Tools, then folder options, then View and clicking on the "Show Hidden Folders" button.

I'm not on my Tpad at the moment so I cannot check the exact RnR options for selecting the backup location. I'll check on RnR later and post back.

[egibbs]

One of my biggest issues with R&R is it's propensity to hide the details of stuff - where files are backed up, etc. from the user. This is by design - to make it simple for the bottom end of the bell curve and keep them from mucking around with settings that they shouldn't be messing with. But for anyone with half a brain it's extraordinarily frustrating.

I would agree that both sets of backups are on the Bill partition (as separate backup sets), and there is probably no way you can change that in R&R. Live with it or get TrueImage or Ghost, either of which give you much more control over the backup process.

Ed Gibbs

[Billyboy]

I confirmed by checking the hidden folders that both backups are on the same partition. Will there be an issue going forward with managing these two,or more importantly, recovering one or both if they are on the same partition?

Between Ghost and True Image, which is recommended (if you can tell me)

Thanks

[egibbs]

Don't think there will be an issue, but with R&R you never know.

I use TrueImage, just because I swore to never install another Symantec product for as long as I live. Your mileage may vary.

TrueImage has a 15 day free trial. Try it and see the difference for yourself. It's a pretty light install.

Ed Gibbs

[ashleys]

You should be abke to get them on different partitions, as follows,

1. Within RnR delete you current backups. Do this on both machines.

2. Just to be on the safe side, format both backup partitions that you have made.

3. On the first PC go into RnR and go into "Set Schedule and preferences". On the backup locations select Local Hard drive and click OK. Then leave "Set schedule and preferences". Do NOT do a backup at this point but go back into Set Schedule and preferences. Now as a backup location select USB hard drive and click OK. You should now be presented with a box showing the partitions on your USB drive. Select the first partition.

You now have the first partition selected as the backup location.
Take a full backup on the first PC.

After backup has completed unplug USB device and attach to second PC.
Repeat step 3 on the second PC but when you get to the point following the USB drive selection, select the SECOND partition.

When you take the backup on the second PC the backups file should be located on the second partition.

[Billyboy]

For Ashleys, thanks that seems to work. I wanted to save both as bootable backups, but could only backup the first one that way. Can I assume I'll need to apply your technique do this for the incremental backups as well?

[ashleys]

The incrementals should go to the same RRBackups folder location that the base is. Therefore, from now on, you should not have to indicate to RnR where to place any backups. Hopefully, on PC one they'll go to the first partition and on PC two they'll go to the second.

I wanted to save both as bootable backups

It's not the backups that are bootable, it's the pre-desktop area. This is created when you run the Create Rescue Media application and indicate you wish to place the bootable version of RnR on your USB device. This pre-desktop area can only be placed on one partition.

The backups that you create can be used by RnR when it is running as either a stand-alone application (in the case of booting from the pre-desktop area) or from running it as a Windows aplication.