T41: lost? 9gb during windows update after R&R?

[vwbmw]

Last week I bought a T41 2373-8RU from a local off-lease reseller. Build date Oct'04, with XPpro (not SP2). After R&R (using Access IBM key, not F11), with recovery partition, only 34-35gb of '40' is available (normal). Next thing I do, before loading any software, I hook up to DSL and run Windows Update(Express). Finds 64 updates ("58mb"). Let it do its thing for 1.5 hours. Result: only 26gb left available on HD!! What happened to cause Win/XP update to consume such excessive HD space?!

I next updated to XP SP2 (1.5 hours), installed ZoneAlarm, Spybot, AdAware, AVG, Firefox, MS Office, PSElements ..all of which occupied only <2gb more. But whatever happened to my scarce HD space during the initial 'update'? Should I re-wipe it all via Factory Recovery, and if so, what to avoid, or do differently to get a gb-thrifty HD result? Should I have skipped the misc updates (n=64) to the Oct'04-era factory XP and just downloaded SP2? (IIRC, I didn't see a SP2 update option until after the other updates)

[I'm new to "best practices/procedures" on recent Thinkpads; my last one was in Win3.11 era! I'd posted in T4x forum w/o replies, was advised to re-post here.]

[RealBlackStuff]

When you do the M$ Updates, XP keeps the original files that are updated, and installs an UNinstall routine for that patch. These UNinstalls themselves each take up ca. 600KB. Get your 64 updates, multiply by 600K, add the 'old' files, and there's your missing GBs.
If you have Explorer set to show all hidden and system files, go in the c:\windows directory, you'll see all those real-estate-wasters in the form of e.g. $NtServicePackUninstallIDNMitigationAPIs$ or $NtUninstallKB918118$.

With the exception of $hf_mig$ you can delete all those (blue colored) folders to reclaim your precious space.
There's probably a utility that can do this for you, but I'm not aware of it.

[vwbmw]

Thanks, realblackstuff. I find 138! folders of the form $NtUninstall.......$ (no 'blue' folders though, all mine show as standard 'yellow'). None with exact name $NtServicePackUninstallIDNMitigationAPIs$.

Of those 138, all except the following are the $...KB...$ sort:
(earliest in list, timedate= the '64' misc WinUpdates or SP2 update)
$MSI31UninstallKB893803v2$ (4mb) **
$NtServicePackUnistall$ (300mb) **
..to..
(latest in list, probably from other apps install?)
$NtUninstallMSComPackV1$ (594kb)
$NtUninstallWMFDist11$ (14mb) (WinMediaPlayer11?)
$NtUninstallwmp11$ (10mb)
$NtUninstallWudf01000$ (650kb)

So I can safely delete ALL the $...KB...$ folders, and the two**? They're not needed because I can always redo R&R plus WinUpdates if I'd ever need restart from square one?


>>you wrote: you'll see all those real-estate-wasters in the form of e.g. $NtServicePackUninstallIDNMitigationAPIs$ or $NtUninstallKB918118$. With the exception of $hf_mig$ you can delete all those (blue colored) folders to reclaim your precious space<<

[RealBlackStuff]

Yes you can.
In the (exception) folder $hf_mig$ is a list of all updates that were ever made, you MUST keep that.

The filenames that I printed bold were just examples, and need not coincide with your names.
ANYthing that starts with $Nt... can be deleted without a second thought.
The same goes also for those starting with $MSI...

The reason those files show up in blue (on my PC), is because my Explorer replacement program Powerdesk shows 'compressed' files/folders in a different color. Explorer by the way also shows them in a different color (blue on my PC, default may be the yellow you mention).

If you don't feel comfortable with this, take an image first, then delete. I've been doing this already since my W2K-days, and never needed any of those files back!
Make sure you empty your Recycle Bin as well!
It would be advisable to do a defrag after you reclaim that space.

I don't think I'm the only person wiping these...

[vwbmw]

ANYthing that starts with $Nt... can be deleted without a second thought. The same goes also for those starting with $MSI... <> empty your Recycle Bin as well! <> advisable to defrag after you reclaim that space.

Well, I've deleted all the 130 $Nt... hidden folders, emptied Recycle, Disk Cleanup/Compress, Defrag, reboot ..and all I gained was ~500mb space! ..C:Properties changing from 25.6gb free to 26.1gb free on '33.8gb' HD What have I missed? Something's wrong with this picture, no?

I'd expected to at least gain a few GB to get near or above 30gb. If I'd known this (or found this Forum) pre-purchase, I'd have looked for a '60'gb T41 instead. I'm obviously new to this, but I ask experienced Forum users: just what is "normal" available HD free space for a new-in-box or Factory Recovery '40'gb T41 Thinkpad? Or the flip side: just how much real estate should the factory install of WinXPpro (plus WindowsUpdates, SP2) consume?

The 'proper' GB# must be similar for every '40'gb T41 ever shipped (is 33.8gb ex-HPA about right?), but my only T41 experience is my sample n=1.

[RealBlackStuff]

Have you also ran all the IBM updates? They have the unpleasant habit to also remain on your harddisk, but they do that in their unpacked, space-eating form, rather than in the compressed download files.
You'll find those in the IBMTOOLS or DRIVERS directories.
I am too new at Thinkpads to know yet, if you can delete any of that stuff or not.
Perhaps some other good soul can inform you about that?

Windoze has advanced considerably since your 3.1 days.
I can tell you a long story or keep it short and sweet...
I'll opt for the last one.
Go to http://www.ccleaner.com and get their program CrapCleaner.
Install and run it. It will empty more space wasters in e.g. the various Temp directories, caches etc.
Look at the disk-size before and after CC ran. Bet it's OK now.

A full XP/SP2 installation does not take up more space than ca. 1.5GB.
Count 4-5 GB for the restore partition, which leaves you with ca. 32-34 GB out of a 40GB hard disk, depending on whether the HD was 'measured' in 1000KB (as preferred by manufacturers) or 1024KB (the real McCoy) multiples.

[vwbmw]

Have you also ran all the IBM updates? <>Go to http://www.ccleaner.com <> A full XP/SP2 installation does not take up more space than ca. 1.5GB. Count 4-5 GB for the restore partition, which leaves you with ca. 32-34 GB out of a 40GB hard disk

Thanks for suggestions. (I may be offline for a couple weeks, so will follow up when I can.) But I find I'm needlessly wasting hours of time not knowing what sensible order of operations I should have followed from 'square one' to update a 'new' used T41. IBM drivers/Bios first? or WinXP Updates? (or get SP2, skipping the 64 other updates?) Antivirus/Firewall 2nd? etc

My T41 was tagged as '36'gb(+HPA) at purchase. I didn't write down the initial (C: properties) HD space, but perhaps it was 34.8gb (or 35.?); when out of curiosity I ran R&R on day1, I had (as now) 33.8gb free (lost? 1gb: I mean, there's many posts about creating a 5gb partions when porting the HPA to a new HD ..so why does my HPA now seem to be ~6gb?) Like you said, I assumed XP/SP1 used <2gb, and expected whatever Windows Updates,+SP2 would still leave me above 30gb ..NOT at 26gb! (but I digress).

I intended to do IBM (drivers) Updates first, but when I ran the installed Access IBM "IBM Update Connector v.5.2", I only get "an error occurred connecting to IBM Help Center". Alternatively, using "Update Access IBM" via FFox or IE6 to www.-307.ibm.(etc) gives a listing of many driver types for 2373-8RU. But I expected the "Detect My System" link to peek (ping?) at my specific machine to advise me what I needed, rather than me guessing which to attempt 1st, 2nd, etc.

Once I accumulate the proper threshold of do-this-first, then-do-this (and avoid/ignore-this) knowledge from Thinkpad forums etc, I'll probably start over with R&R to somehow achieve a '40'gb XPpro+SP2 T41 with >30gb free, if possible.

[RealBlackStuff]

I'm only one guy answering to your posts.
Perhaps having a look at my answers in this post may help?
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=39048
I don't want to force my opinions upon anyone though....

[GomJabbar]

The critical driver install sequence applies mainly to Access Connections and your wireless driver. Think of it as a layer cake. If you want to upgrade a driver or install a driver, you must begin at the lowest applicable layer and work up. To upgrade a driver in a lower layer, uninstall the upper layer drivers first, then reinstall in reverse order. This will prevent a mountain of problems. Even if you use Software Installer, follow this procedure.

Basically I would recommend installing in the following order. If someone thinks the order is not quite right, feel free to chime in.

1) Install Windows.
2) Install the Intel Chipset Drivers.
3) Install the ACPI Power Management Driver.
4) Install the Windows Supplement files from Lenovo's site if there are any.
5) Install your basic hardware drivers such as wireless adapter driver, lan adapter driver, video adapter driver, modem driver, audio driver, etc.
6) Install Battery MaxiMiser or Power Manager software as appropriate.
7) Install the Hotkey Features driver.
8) Install Access Connections.
9) Install any remaining software. Genereally you do not need to worry about uninstalling any in this catagory to upgrade any of your drivers.

See following link for more info on Access Connections (Fn + F5) problems and fixes.

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=29939

[vwbmw]

Thank you, GomJabbar, and realblackstuff, for taking time to help. I may be offline for a couple weeks, so there'll be a delay in feedback on my part. (Asked some local PC techs: they've never heard of Windows XP updates somehow consuming 9gb of HD space. So I posted here in case any other '40'gb Tx TP user experienced this, and how they corrected/avoided it during a re-do.)