Windows System Restore Problem

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bobstockler · #1 Post by **bobstockler** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:09 pm

On Windows XP Professional with Service Pack 2 and all patches . . .

I've used Windows System Restore at various times, and it was working as advertised for 2 years or so - but lately it hasn't been.

For a while now, any and all Restore Points disappear after a reboot.

Any help in making it quit eating my Restore Points on a reboot will certainly be appreciated.

Bob

#2 Post by **GomJabbar** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:03 pm

Norton Antivirus interferes with System Restore. It doesn't delete the System Restore Points per se, but they are unusable. I did read somewhere that there is a setting that can be changed in NAV to let System Restore work.

In dual-boot scenerios with Vista, Vista restore points are deleted after booting into XP. If System Restore in Vista monitors the XP drive or partition, I believe this will delete the XP restore points.

Do you have enough space on your hard drive for System Restore Points to be saved? If a non-system drive has less than 50 MB, System Restore will not work across the system.

Windows Help and Support wrote:To resume System Restore monitoring
1. Open System Properties.
2. Ensure that the Turn off System Restore check box is cleared.
3. Under Drive settings, select the drive or partition by clicking it, and then click Settings.
4. Ensure that the Turn off System Restore on this drive check box is cleared.

Note

* To open System Properties, click Start, click Control Panel, and then double-click System. In the System Properties dialog box, click the System Restore tab.

bobstockler · #3 Post by **bobstockler** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:43 pm

I do run Norton Anti-Virus, but have done so since getting my TP in 2005, and had no problems with System Restore until recently. I run only XP, no dual boot. I do have a secondary USB HDD; I turned off System Restore on it but that didn't help.

I install an upgrade or patch that tells me a reboot is required, but I delay it, and find a Restore Point has been created. But after the reboot there are no Restore Points.

Bob

#4 Post by **GomJabbar** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:11 pm

Here are a couple of links.

Message: "Restoration Incomplete. Your computer cannot be restored . . . " when you run Windows System Restore

Troubleshoot System Restore “Restore Point Failures” in Windows XP

Windows Xp System Restore, Not working

USSS · #5 Post by **USSS** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:27 pm

Thanks for the links, GomJabbar.

I've been having issues with System Restore myself the past few months, and I've been setting manual restore points daily. Sometimes they stick, but most of the time they are gone the next day.

Appreciate the help!

bobstockler · #6 Post by **bobstockler** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:13 pm

GomJabbar wrote:Here are a couple of links.

Message: "Restoration Incomplete. Your computer cannot be restored . . . " when you run Windows System Restore

Troubleshoot System Restore “Restore Point Failures” in Windows XP

Windows Xp System Restore, Not working

Thanks for posting the links GomJabbar . . .

I tried suggestions that seemed related to my problem (all Restore
Points disappear after a reboot).

I right clicked on "%Windir%\INF\sr.inf" and re-installed System
Restore. I don't have an SP2 CD, so some of the files it required
I had to find on my HD. Maybe some of them were at fault - but,
anyway, that was of no help.

I ran "sfc /scannow", and it found nothing amiss. More info:

The Event Viewer for System shows errors from "sr" when shutting
down the system. Double clicking on all of them shows:

The System Restore filter encountered the unexpected error
'0xC000000D' while processing the file 'ATMELTPM.INF' on the volume
'HarddiskVolume2'. It has stopped monitoring the volume.

System Restore monitoring is turned ON _only_ for my primary HDD.

Following up to Microsoft Support on that error event hints that
there may be a hotfix for my problem. We'll see.

Bob

#7 Post by **jdhurst** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:21 pm

System restore points go away after a while when you do regular Windows Updates. I saw that starting to happen a couple of years back, and between the disk usage limit for Restore as well as updates, the system restore process is only good for the most recent updates. I no longer use it because of this. It would take a great deal of disk space (and probably affect performance) to keep the restore feature accurate over 4 years of operation.
... JDH

#8 Post by **GomJabbar** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:58 pm

bobstockler wrote:The System Restore filter encountered the unexpected error
'0xC000000D' while processing the file 'ATMELTPM.INF' on the volume
'HarddiskVolume2'. It has stopped monitoring the volume.

That's a very good clue. It appears the security chip is what is breaking System Restore for you. If you do not need the security chip, you can disable it in the BIOS. Hopefully that will fix your problem. Otherwise, I am not knowledgeable enough on the issue to know what to do.

EDIT: I would not disable the security chip if you use the Client Security Software or especially if you have encrypted volumes on your hard drive. You need someone more knowledgeable than me to give you directions on how to proceed. I have the security chip on my T42, but I do not use it and I have it disabled in the BIOS.

EDIT2: A thought occurred to me. You may be able to disable the ATMEL driver in Windows Device Manager, reboot, then set a System Restore point. After the restore point is set, you could reenable the ATMEL driver, reboot, and see if your Restore Point is still there. If your restore point remains, then anytime you need to use System Restore, just disable the ATMEL driver in Device Manager. I am not sure that this would work, but it is an idea.

bobstockler · #9 Post by **bobstockler** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:34 pm

GomJabbar wrote:
bobstockler wrote:The System Restore filter encountered the unexpected error
'0xC000000D' while processing the file 'ATMELTPM.INF' on the volume
'HarddiskVolume2'. It has stopped monitoring the volume.
That's a very good clue. It appears the security chip is what is breaking System Restore for you. If you do not need the security chip, you can disable it in the BIOS. Hopefully that will fix your problem. Otherwise, I am not knowledgeable enough on the issue to know what to do.

EDIT: I would not disable the security chip if you use the Client Security Software or especially if you have encrypted volumes on your hard drive. You need someone more knowledgeable than me to give you directions on how to proceed. I have the security chip on my T42, but I do not use it and I have it disabled in the BIOS.

EDIT2: A thought occurred to me. You may be able to disable the ATMEL driver in Windows Device Manager, reboot, then set a System Restore point. After the restore point is set, you could reenable the ATMEL driver, reboot, and see if your Restore Point is still there. If your restore point remains, then anytime you need to use System Restore, just disable the ATMEL driver in Device Manager. I am not sure that this would work, but it is an idea.

AFAIK I don't have a security chip in the G41 I got in 11/2005, and I can't find an ATMEL driver in Device Manager.

You missed the point that the error message said it encountered the error when it reached that file on HarddiskVolume2, which I am not monitoring,

Bob

#10 Post by **GomJabbar** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 10:14 pm

Well, there could be some question exactly what is HarddiskVolume2? Is it the hidden partition, or is it an encrypted volume?

AFAIK, ATMEL is the security chip. ATMEL is a chip manufacturer that make security chips for ThinkPads. TPM stands for Trusted Platform Module. See following link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Platform_Module

I see that the G41 apparently does not have a security chip, yet it is compatible with the Client Security Software which does use the security chip. Security is not my forte. If I had to guess, I would suspect that you have or have had one of the following installed, Client Security Software, Utimaco SafeGuard PrivateDisk Personal Edition, or Password Manager, or some other encryption software. Possibly if you upgraded Rescue and Recovery, that might be the culprit.

FWIW, I do not have the file ATMELTPM.INF on my T42. Try searching for that file on you hard drive, then maybe you can find the application that is using it. If you find it, open it in Notepad to view it's contents for information. If there is an ATMEL driver installed, it should be in Device Manager. I have seen it there before, but I do not remember where exactly. Look in System Devices and click on View > Show hidden devices, then look in Non-Plug and Play Drivers. Since I have the security chip disabled in my BIOS, I do not have a driver loaded for it...

bobstockler · #11 Post by **bobstockler** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 1:41 pm

You got it right, the "ATMELTPM.INF" file is the installation file for the
"Atmel TPM Device".

It's in "C:\Program Files\Lenovo\Client Security Solution\pda\MININT\INF"
and in "E:\MiniNT\inf" on my bootable USB drive. It's part of Lenovo's
ThinkVantage Client Security Solution 8.

But I don't believe that particular file has anything to do with my problem,
but think it's a problem with Microsoft's System Restore.

In System Properties, the System Restore tab shows only:

Status
IBM_PRELOAD (C:) Monitoring

I disconnected the USB drive and I get the same error, so the "Harddisk2"
thingie is a mystery. BTW, the error is on the reboot, not the shutdown;
a Restore Point exists immediately after a reboot, but then dissappears.

When I get a Round TUIT I'm going to take this up with Microsoft Support,
but in the meanwhile I'll set a Restore Point after any reboot and forget
about its bad behavior.

Just for fun, though, I renamed "ATMELTPM.INF" to "JOE.INF" and rebooted.
This time the error message was the same, except the file it choked on was
"btpmw32.cat" (which was in the same folder as "JOE.INF").

On the reboot, ThinkVantage Client Security noticed that "ALTMELTPM.INF"
was missing and restored it.

bobstockler · #12 Post by **bobstockler** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 2:25 pm

jdhurst wrote:System restore points go away after a while when you do regular Windows Updates. I saw that starting to happen a couple of years back, and between the disk usage limit for Restore as well as updates, the system restore process is only good for the most recent updates. I no longer use it because of this. It would take a great deal of disk space (and probably affect performance) to keep the restore feature accurate over 4 years of operation.
... JDH

When it was working properly for me I never found Windows Update to cause
any problems. In fact, when I installed an update it would create a Restore
Point for me. And, according to the docs, when it runs out of space to store
a Restore Point it makes space by deleting the earliest one stored. And that,
in my experience, is how it used to work on my system.

Well, there's always ThinkVantage Rescue and Recovery 8.

#13 Post by **jdhurst** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 2:30 pm

Windows updates is not the only application that uses restore points. There are lots on my system, so the "most recent" restore point for application A may have been deleted by updates or installs of unrelated applications B, C, D, E and so on.

Each system is different, and on my own system, the restore points evaporate pretty quickly. ... JDH

#14 Post by **GomJabbar** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 5:55 pm

bobstockler wrote:The Event Viewer for System shows errors from "sr" when shutting down the system. Double clicking on all of them shows:

The System Restore filter encountered the unexpected error
'0xC000000D' while processing the file 'ATMELTPM.INF' on the volume
'HarddiskVolume2'. It has stopped monitoring the volume.

I believe your problem is very similar to the problem below regarding dual booting XP with Vista:

Microsoft wrote:Information for advanced users

Consider the following scenario. A shadow copy is created on a volume in Windows Vista or in Windows Server "Longhorn." Then, you access the volume from an earlier Windows operating system. In this scenario, the shadow copy is deleted. You experience this problem if one or more of the following conditions are true:

• You use Windows Vista or Windows Server "Longhorn" in a dual-boot configuration with Windows XP or with Windows Server 2003. In this scenario, any restore points that have been created in Windows Vista are lost when the computer is started in an earlier Windows operating system. Additionally, shadow copies that were created in Windows Server 2003 are lost when the computer is started in Windows Vista or in Windows Server "Longhorn."
• You create Windows Vista restore points on an internal hard disk or an external hard disk. Then, you move the hard disk to a computer that is running Windows Server 2003 or Windows XP.
• You use an internal hard disk or an external hard disk to store Complete PC Backup files, and you then access the volume from either Windows Server 2003 or Windows XP. In this scenario, all earlier versions of the backup files are lost. Only the most recent backup files are still available.

This problem occurs because the volume snapshot driver that is included with Windows Vista and with Windows Server "Longhorn" uses disk structures that are incompatible with earlier versions of Windows. Therefore, the earlier operating system deletes Windows Vista shadow copies or Windows Server "Longhorn" shadow copies together with the associated restore points. This behavior occurs because the earlier Windows operating systems do not recognize the new disk structures.

Notes

• In Windows Vista, shadow copies are used to maintain restore points. Additionally, shadow copies are used to maintain Complete PC Backup files. Therefore, when you access the volume from an earlier operating system, the restore points or the earlier versions of Complete PC Backup files are lost.
• Although Windows Server "Longhorn" does not include the System Restore feature, Windows Vista and Windows Server "Longhorn" use shadow copies for other purposes, such as for backups. Windows Vista and Windows Server "Longhorn" also delete shadow copies that are created by earlier versions of Windows. Therefore, after you use the earlier version of Windows to start the computer in a dual-boot environment, no restore points are available to the System Restore feature when you next start Windows Vista.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/926185

#15 Post by **GomJabbar** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 6:18 pm

Something else you might try is running checkdisk to look for disk errors. Open My Computer, right-click on the disk drive you want to check, choose Properties > Tools > Error Checking > Check Now... Check both boxes to: Automatically fix file system errors, and Scan for and attempt recovery of bad sectors. Your computer will probably need to reboot to run checkdisk with the above boxes checked. This will take some time to complete (over an hour - perhaps several, depending upon your hard disk size and speed).

bobstockler · #16 Post by **bobstockler** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 2:16 pm

I ran CHKDSK (all boxes checked) and it found nothing wrong to fix.

I've ordered an SP2 CD and will reinstall System Restore with files from it,
rather than from files already on my hard disk, and see if that fixes it.

bobstockler · #17 Post by **bobstockler** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:20 pm

In the forum "System Restore" in the AumHa Forums (http://aumha.net/index.php)
in the thread titled "System Restore Points Soon Disappear After Reboot" the
problem I was having was resolved. In that thread:

Bill Castner suggested the hotfix I was after was KB 888402.

Robear Dyer told me I could request a hotfix from Microsoft at:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/935195

I requested the hotfix and Microsoft Support soon emailed me the instructions
for downloading it, which I immediately followed.

After installing the hotfix, the same error is reported by "sr" after booting,
but the Restore Points are NOT removed ! ! !

Thanks to the AumHa Forums and all who tried to help me there, and especially
to Bill and Robear.

And thanks to those in this forum who tried to help me.

My problem was resolved - case closed.

#18 Post by **GomJabbar** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 5:54 pm

Thanks for posting your solution. I am sure this will help others in the future as well.

I see that I was looking in the right area, I just didn't know the solution. So it was the Client Security Solution software that was the culprit.

Here is the Microsoft page that describes the hotfix you posted above.
http://support.microsoft.com/default.as ... -us;888402

I see the one who solved your problem is no lightweight.

Bill Castner - AH-VSOP & MS-MVP (Microsoft Most Valuable Professional)

For those interested; below is the post where he has your solution.
http://aumha.net/viewtopic.php?p=156720#156720

Windows System Restore Problem

Windows System Restore Problem

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