Licensing considerations when virtualizing XP OEM in VmWare?

[dbrewer]

Ubuntu Feisty is my primary OS, but for my work I frequently need access to Windows applications. Right now I'm using my personal laptop at work and using an office-provided desktop when I need Windows access. My workplace has offered to buy a laptop for me if I can work things out so it's the only machine I need. I'm pulling for a T61.

So, the point: I would like to figure out the most financially efficient way to arrive at my desired setup, which is an Ubuntu host OS running a Windows virtual machine via vmware server. This leads me to my questions:

1) Does anyone here have experience virtualizing vista under vmware server? We have a few free licenses of Vista Ultimate (Retail) which I could use, but I'm concerned that Vista is going to be such a resource hog that it really won't be a good choice as a VM. In fact I've pretty much decided that XP is the best choice for this. This leads me to question 2...

2) If I buy a T61 with Windows XP Pro (which would be OEM, of course), are there legal and/or technical difficulties in installing that copy of XP on a virtual machine on the same laptop? I have had problems with exactly this issue on another machine, but that was a Dell and the Dell version of the XP OEM install disks gives you grief if you don't install it on a Dell.

I think that's it -- many thanks in advance for any insight into this issue.

[GomJabbar]

I saw this post yesterday by wallybear which may be of interest to you.

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 599#304599

[steveg47]

You will not be able to use the Thinkpad XP recovery disks to install XP to a VM.

[ErikD]

Yes, but if you have a regular old XP OEM install CD you should be fine just using the COA provided on the laptop. Probably not 100% in accordance with the EULA, but close enough, still using it on a single machine that it came with.

[dbrewer]

Hmm... unfortunately, I think the only only XP installer disks I have acess to are:

1) A retail XP installer, purchased for a co-worker's Macbook Pro.
2) Dell OEM XP disks, which I'm pretty sure won't work.
3) The XP install disks I created as part of the restore disks for my T42.

I suppose the easiest thing to do would be to try Vista first and see just how sluggish it is as a VM. Maybe it will be okay... it's not like I'm going to be trying to run Aero on it or anything.

Thanks for the responses!

[steveg47]

Hmm... unfortunately, I think the only only XP installer disks I have acess to are:

1) A retail XP installer, purchased for a co-worker's Macbook Pro.
2) Dell OEM XP disks, which I'm pretty sure won't work.
3) The XP install disks I created as part of the restore disks for my T42.

I suppose the easiest thing to do would be to try Vista first and see just how sluggish it is as a VM. Maybe it will be okay... it's not like I'm going to be trying to run Aero on it or anything.

Thanks for the responses!

Vista runs reasonably well as a VMWare guest in VMware 6. Even if you wanted to run Aero in Vista you couldn't as the VMWare video driver only provides 16mb of memory. XP on the other hand runs incredibly well in VMWare and uses less resources. For Vista I would recommend at least 1.5 gb of memory if you're going to run a vista vm guest. I have successfully installed both 32 and 64 bit versions of Vista in vmware but the 64 bit is noticably slower.

[bonestonne]

i've successfully emulated Vista in VMWare, and i'll tell you, its nothing special. normally really slow because Aero was enabled upon completion of my installation, and it was cripplingly slow. you'll need at least 1.5gb of RAM to easily do this, you'll want 768 devoted to each OS [host and virtual] to prevent crashing if you want Vista.

if you shoot for XP, you could get away easily with a gig or less of RAM, XP runs moderately well virtually, but it'll take what recources it needs. also, if you access external drives, do know that VMWare doesn't share with ubuntu, it'll take the drive over without safely ejecting it, so you'll want to be careful.

you'll have a good shot at using the dell install disks and your co-workers install disk for XP, i wouldn't suggest vista for this, because chances are, Aero will start when the installation is finished, and it'll crash quickly.

i can't imagine what programs you wouldn't be able to find a linux version of with the same file support, but alright.

i dual boot on my tower, and soon as i get a charger for my laptop, it'll run Ubuntu, not sure how well the wireless will work, but its all going to be experimented with.

[Kyocera]

i've successfully emulated Vista in VMWare, and i'll tell you, its nothing special. normally really slow because Aero was enabled upon completion of my installation, and it was cripplingly slow. you'll need at least 1.5gb of RAM to easily do this, you'll want 768 devoted to each OS [host and virtual] to prevent crashing if you want Vista.

I had a similar experience with Vista using virtual PC, just wanted to experiment so I aborted it after a couple of weeks, but less that a gig and a half ram will be aggravating.

[steveg47]

Virtual PC, though free, is rather pathetic. You'll find that Vista as a vmware guest on your t61 runs adequately. As to that comment that Aero was enabled by default (or in any other way) in a Vista VMWare guest session, never going to happen. Also, my t60p has never crashed running vista in vmware and I run it a lot.

[dbrewer]

i've successfully emulated Vista in VMWare, and i'll tell you, its nothing special. normally really slow because Aero was enabled upon completion of my installation, and it was cripplingly slow. you'll need at least 1.5gb of RAM to easily do this, you'll want 768 devoted to each OS [host and virtual] to prevent crashing if you want Vista.

This is exactly what I was afraid of, and why my preferences for this are definitely for XP. Thank you for confirming my assumption! I'm going to have I think 2.5 gigs of RAM, but I often have multiple VMs running so it's surprising how fast that can go.

Thanks for the rest of your advice too, it sounds like I've got a reasonably good chance of just being able to use the XP license that comes with the machine... enough chance for me to give it a shot and deal with the situation later if it doesn't work out.

i can't imagine what programs you wouldn't be able to find a linux version of with the same file support, but alright.

It comes up surprisingly often. Part of my job has to do with converting data from institutions such as museums into a format suitable for making a decent website. A recent example: Filemaker Pro. As far as I can tell there aren't any Linux-based tools out there for prying data out of that particular... er, I hesitate to grace Filemaker with the name 'database'.

Also, I do some tech support on our windows domain, and it's probably a good idea for me to have access to the appropriate tools when necessary.

[boyAfraid]

david,
i am planning on doing something very similar to you. i have a t61 pre-loaded with vista business and an a31 which was pre-loaded with xp pro. i successfully made an install disc from the i386 folder on the a31 by following this guide. once you have the install disc, it should be no problem to install xp in vmware.

a couple of other notes: you might want to also check out nlite as a way to reduce the size of your xp virtual machine. i'm working on this myself because i plan on having more than one xp virtual machine.

also, keep in mind that vmware allows you to use a real partition as your virtual machine. in other words, you could always keep the pre-loaded os and install ubuntu as your secondary os (as in a dual-boot configuration). then, configure your vmserver in ubuntu to use the xp partition for your virtual machine.

finally, since you have access to the free vista licenses, it probably makes the most sense for you to simply get the new machine pre-loaded with xp. that way, you will have access to both os's.

just my $0.02,
bA

[dbrewer]

For the record... I used the guide that boyAfraid mentioned to create an XP install disk from the i386 folder (http://www.howtohaven.com/system/create ... disk.shtml). I had to make one slight modification to that guide to get a working disk: when burning the disc, I had to modify the character encoding to 'DOS' or else some of the filenames don't come out as expected on the disc. Other than that it worked like a charm.

This disc worked perfectly to install XP under VMware in Ubuntu Feisty, and it activated on the first try with no call-in hassle. I did have one major issue while installing the Windows updates: there are two 'critical' security patches which, when either one is installed, render the vm unbootable. Later today when I'm using that computer I will try to remember to post the information about which patches cause the problem. I ended up having to just skip those two patches.

Thanks for all the help working out how to do this!

[Melvyn]

1) For legal reasons, you can't install OEM Windows on VMware.

2) For technical reasons, your COA is for your ThinkPad machine and VMware/VirtualPC have their "own" virtual hardware configuration. So, you can't activate your oem windows in a virtual machine. It will just activate good on your real hardware with no matter.

3) Both (Virtual PC and VMware) works good with vista (as guess). You can install and run very well on my machine. I have licence for WMware 5.5 and it don't install on vista. Installed on XP I can install a Vista VM.

4) Because your machine will be core 2 duo (or at least core duo) you'll have good performance; as far as you're not considering Aero and flip 3D.

Anyways, my recomendation is go for the XP.