EDIT: Move to 64-bit complete! Works FANTASTIC! Info inside!

[Crunch]

Hey all, I want to confirm a couple of things. I've been having problems with my 64-bit installation, which are isolated to the hard drive always running chkdsk, and it thinks certain files are corrupt.

I am running a dual-boot Vista x86/Vista x64 system. I've been told by a knowledgeable person that Vista does not work well in this scenario. I have my x86 version to where it blows everything away that I've ever had. And with SP1, it's even faster. I do want to run x64, though, so I'd like to know if all of my 32-bit applications will run pretty much the same in compatibility mode under x64, or if I will run into problems???

Apparently, Vista x64 is not like XP x64, as it even installs a folder called "Program Files(x86), as well as IE7 is installed in both x86, and x64, which I thought was odd. I guess I underestimated the OS, as that would be what, a sign that x86 apps are welcome? lol...I wouldn't even be bothered if it ran a couple of 32-bit apps a tad slower, as it is so blazingly fast with everything else.

Before I knock out Vista x86, I would like some comments from as many of you as possible.

Thanks for the input! I wanna do this soon.

[tinue]

Generally, if an application runs with Vista 32, it also runs with Vista 64 in 32 bit mode.

The notable exceptions are if there is a hidden device driver somewhere, or if the application uses "Volume Shadow Copy".

The former category includes iTunes up to version 3.5 (3.6 is fine now), the latter category includes most backup applications (e.g. the client side of the Microsoft Home Server). For many of these applications there is a 64 bit version, or there will be one soon.

You are also out of luck with any hardware that doesn't support Vista 64 explicitely: You need a signed driver, usually a 64 bit version. So if you have an older scanner, or printer etc. you might have to buy new stuff.

There is some hardware which claims to support Vista 64, but does it wrongly: Hauppauge WinTV cards are an example: They don't work with more than 3GB of memory in the system.

All in all, I personally am waiting for new Hauppauge drivers, and for the 64 bit Microsoft Home Server connector. Everything else works.

Regards, Martin

[bill bolton]

so I'd like to know if all of my 32-bit applications will run pretty much the same in compatibility mode under x64, or if I will run into problems???

The only way you are going to find out for all your 32 bit applications is to see what happens!

It depends quite a bit on what implicit expectations and links are built into a 32 bit application as to whether there will be a problem. If the developer(s) has made sure it is well abstracted from the OS layer it is generally fine, but in my experience there are quite a few applications where the developer(s) has skipped some abstraction steps, so may have problems..... like not being able to cope with having separate Program Files directories for x86 and x64 applications when it comes to specifying program linkages to other applications etc etc.

For my particular set of all of my 32-bit applications, I found that the vast majority were fine, but a few that had some issue or other with Vista x64. Some just wouldn't run at all (i.e. HD Temp, MF332 WWAN modem Connection Manger etc), while others would run but with small some oddities (i.e. Forte Agent).

YMMV

Cheers,

Bill

[Crunch]

Thanks for your replies! It looks like I'll be fine then.

Martin, as far as hardware is concerned, I don't really have anything other than what I have installed now, which is really only all the internal upgrades, which should obviously work just fine.

I use Steam for gaming, but then again I don't. I have 24GB's worth of games installed, but I must confess that I have played them maybe once or twice. 4-5 versions of HalfLife, BioShock, Counter Strike, etc. The usual suspects I assume. Do any of you think they will work on x64? I kind of doubt it, but I'd gladly give them up for the speed of 64-bit.

The only way you are going to find out for all your 32 bit applications is to see what happens!

Bill, yes, I agree. And I made up my mind that I'll do exactly that, see what will happen tonight. I have everything ready, so I'll clone the HDD before I reformat it and install Vista Ultimate x64 only. Then I'll just install each app one by one, as well as SP1, which sped up my current 32-bit installation quite a bit, by the way!

Hmm...speaking of SP1. Should I maybe just let it install whatever Windows Updates it has available through Windows Update, or run SP1 right from the start. I have the full installer (x64 version is about 736MB's worth), so all the hotfixes, updates, etc., should be in it!? I have already found out playing around with VUx64 in this apparently ill-advised dual-boot configuration that I need to get the drivers myself. I pretty much have them all in one place, so I'm good to go on that front as well.

You also mentioned the x86 Program Files folder. I was actually pleasantly surprised. IE7 is also installed in both x86 and x64. I assume the installer will "see" which folder to install whatever app it is that I want to install, and use the correct folder...

Funny you should mention your WWAN manager software. I am going to get an HSUPA card when I get back to the U.S., and I will also want to run AT&T's WWAN manager for it. But that's in the future.

Software-wise, the most important are the various video playback software I use, all of which work great on x86. So those will be most interesting as far as the extent to which they will work. This is not like Steam and the games. lol...I need at least a few to work, so I can watch streaming video and Bluray's, DVD's, etc. without any problems. Also, plug-in's for Firefox are important. Oh well, we shall see...

One more thing. I've already noticed that the CPU temp's go up by 10-15C, and that was light usage for a relatively short period of time. Do you also see the temps go up noticeably? Mine usually hover in the mid-50's C, go up into the 60's, and will reach over 70C when I watch a movie, while scanning the hard drive for malware, for example. I don't want to mess up my CPU. Is 70C too hot? What temps are you getting?

Alright, thanks very much again!! If you, or anyone else, can think of anything to add that I ought to do (or avoid), please post. It'll be another 4-6 hours before I'll pull the trigger on this project.

[tinue]

That's in the end what I've done: Run a pilot. I installed an old harddrive into my X61s and tried everything out on x64. Since everything worked I finally started using Vista 64 for good.

Games: On my desktop I have Unreal Tournament 3 installed, and it runs as well on Vista 64 as on Vista 32. Again: So far, all software which runs on Vista 32 also runs on Vista 64, with the exceptions mentioned.

Plugins: 32 bis apps need 32 bit plugins. Since (to the best of my knowledge) Firefox is 32 bit only, all (32 bit) plugins should simply work on Vista 64. The story is different for IE7 64 Bit: So far I didn't find anything in 64 bit version: No Java, no Adobe stuff (flash, shockwawe, acrobat), which is why I exclusively use IE7 32.

SP1: If you have it I would use it. I also hacked it onto my Thinkpad and didn't regret it a bit.

Regards, Martin

[bill bolton]

Hmm...speaking of SP1. Should I maybe just let it install whatever Windows Updates it has available through Windows Update, or run SP1 right from the start.

That's what I did on a recent Vista x86 build and it worked fine... saved a lot of online updating!

I assume the installer will "see" which folder to install whatever app it is that I want to install, and use the correct folder...

Yes, that's what has happened every time so far for me.

Cheers,

Bill B.

[Crunch]

Plugins: 32 bis apps need 32 bit plugins. Since (to the best of my knowledge) Firefox is 32 bit only, all (32 bit) plugins should simply work on Vista 64. The story is different for IE7 64 Bit: So far I didn't find anything in 64 bit version: No Java, no Adobe stuff (flash, shockwawe, acrobat), which is why I exclusively use IE7 32.

Holy...ok, I'll try to behave but this baby is running like a moth...I mean, EVERYTHING WORKS. LOL...As for the browser/plug-in issue, I've found out the following today, which will hopefully help someone else. Adobe has not released 64-bit versions for Flashplayer and Shockwave. However, the error message said that I could run an x86 browser while in 64-bit environment with zero problems, which I can now confirm!

As for the Firefox lack of 64-bit, there is only Firefox 3 Beta 3 (codenamed Minefield) at the moment, so I'm using Firefox 2 x86 for streaming video. FF2 is still faster on x64 than on x86. Unreal, this thing. IE7 I only use in 64-bit when I need to see how it effortlessly "dances its way" through the websites and I have this fade mode on, and it's just...insert any superlatives here...lol

SP1: If you have it I would use it. I also hacked it onto my Thinkpad and didn't regret it a bit.

Yea, I just let it install 48 or so updates, and then SP1, full 734MB installer version. Everything since then is an orgasmic blur. hahahha

That's what I did on a recent Vista x86 build and it worked fine... saved a lot of online updating!

Bill...I am just over-x64-joyed. LOL...Yea, that's what I ended up doing after letting the initial and totally fresh install download 48 updates. Then, SP1 went on that baby without a hitch.

I assume the installer will "see" which folder to install whatever app it is that I want to install, and use the correct folder...

Yes, that's what has happened every time so far for me.

I am very pleased with this in particular. I didn't think it would go THIS smoothly! I've basically re-installed almost ALL of my apps, and many were 32-bit only, and every single time, sure enough, it went into the right folder.

Thanks to you two in particular. And also erik, for telling me my problem was my dual-boot Vista x86/x64, which was the culprit of my initial x64 installations not working at all. It certainly was!!

Man, this was, and continues to be fun. LOL...I found very few 64-bit virus/malware products, so I'm currently running a 30-day trial of eset 64-bit, which I had used previously and it was fine. I am going to guess and say it's not a good idea to install x86-based anti-virus software?? What are you guys running?

The only other thing is the heat. My system now runs approx. 10-15C's hotter, and I've topped out at over 80C when I put so much strain on my T7600, where the x86 version would have stopped rendering videos properly, or run other tasks slower. This baby is unstoppable! It would...not...budge.

[rvacha]

I've been running Vista Business 64 on my T61 for about 6-9 months now and I love it. Virtually everything runs without a hint of problems. People tend to complain about 64-bit driver support but I've been partially lucky and partly smart (buying Lenovo gets you excellent and timely driver support including 64-bit). To date the only issues I can think of are/were:

1. Cimetry Autovue crashes opening large CAD files
2. An old M-Audio external USB audio codec had to be scrapped
3. My data card software claimed to be Vista 64 compatible - and perhaps it is - but it does not contain 64-bit drivers for my card. Now I use an AT&T Tilt/HTC Kaiser for a data card via USB with no issues
4. The Lenovo provided WinDVD supposedly doesn't work, but I don't care much
5. VPN - as far as I know nobody provides 64-bit VPN support and Cisco has publically stated that hell will freeze over first. Fortunately my employer saw 64 bit writing on the wall and as of yesterday we have a totally VPN-free solution

IE7 64 is more secure than 32-bit so that's what I use by default. If I HAVE to go to a Flash site I open the 32-bit version. MS Silverlight doesn't work under 64 bit either.

I use the Eset NOD32 64-bit and love it. Highly recommended. I use Vista's built-in Defender for malware and have been happy with it

I don't see much speed improvement in going to 64 bits except if there is 4GB or more installed. Superfetch has a field day and prefetches just about you've ever used. App startup is lightning fast. I'll never go back

For video codecs I have been running VistaCodecs, http://shark007.testbox.dk/ and it handles everything I've thrown at it. if you don't like WMP then you'll like Media Player Classic Home Cinema Version http://tibrium.neuf.fr/

I've been running SP1 for three days now and it works better overall, but nothing earth shattering except networking, which is WAY faster than before. According to the boards, YMMV in the speed department. GUI is more polished since some odd behaviors have been fixed.

[Crunch]

Plugins: 32 bis apps need 32 bit plugins. Since (to the best of my knowledge) Firefox is 32 bit only, all (32 bit) plugins should simply work on Vista 64. The story is different for IE7 64 Bit: So far I didn't find anything in 64 bit version: No Java, no Adobe stuff (flash, shockwawe, acrobat), which is why I exclusively use IE7 32.

SP1: If you have it I would use it. I also hacked it onto my Thinkpad and didn't regret it a bit.

Hey Martin, yes, Firefox 2 is 32-bit only, which is why I installed Minefield, a.k.a. Firefox 3 Beta 3, but running both FF3 and IE7 64-bit, the plug-in's I need (Adobe Flash player/Shockwave, along with a few others), it comes back with an error message saying they are only available in 32-bit at the moment. However, and I was impressed at how specific the offered resolution was. The error message simply stated in no uncertain terms: If you want to use these plug-ins, you can do so without any problems in Vista x64, but you have to install a 32-bit browser, and then install the 32-bit plug-in's. So I installed Firefox 2, and sure enough, they all work like a charm.

This is one of many examples where I was surprised as to how seamless and smoothly everything runs, albeit with a few, but very easy workarounds. I'm at the point where I have everything installed that I need, and what I want, with the exception of games, and the Steam engine, which I would gladly forfeit, in case they don't work, as I virtually never play games anyway. In fact, I can use the 24GB's worth of games I have installed on my Vista x86 cloned drive, which is currently installed in my 2nd T60p.

[pae77]

I have been playing COD4 on my vx64sp1 setup without issues. In fact after SP1, I've been able to play at slightly higher settings without problems.

I've also been noticing slightly higher temps after SP1, but they are still within an acceptable range.

The main incompatibility I've run into is in trying to run PeerGuardian (pre and post SP1). There is now a Vista beta version, however, for the time being, to get it to run on x64, one needs to do a work around which involves disabling Vista x64's driver signature enforcement. This can be done by pressing F8 at boot like you were trying to boot into safe mode, and then selecting "disable driver signature enforcement" from the list of boot options that comes up, and then the unsigned PeerGuardian driver and the program will run fine.

Otherwise, everything important that I've wanted to run has worked great on Vista x64. I won't be going back. It's fine now and will only get better from here.

[Crunch]

Alright, almost a week into 64-bit, and I have noticed the following benefits and two problems:

Tremendous WiFi improvements! Downloading while simultaneously having multiple browsers working. Major for me! W-o-W!

Much faster transfers from one hard drive to another! I've seen transfer rates of over 40MB/sec when moving or copying LARGE files. Again, very useful for me! W-o-W!

Startup/shutdown MUCH faster: Most noticeable on startup! It boots in SECONDS...It takes a mere 20 seconds from the fingerprint reader (at the BIOS) to having the desktop populated, with the hard drive idle. W-o-W!

Problem with Firefox 2.0.0.12 (32-bit browser, no 64-bit version available), with the TabMixPlus add-on: It works great, but every time I reboot, the sessions, even when saved, are GONE. So are the added "quick bookmark links" in the toolbar. Gone every time I reboot the machine. Time for Firefox 3 to be released. The Beta 3 works well, but I don't want to make a beta browser my main browser, and even though IE7 is night-and-day faster when run in 64-bit, I still much prefer Firefox, and will scrap TabMixPlus in favor of Session Manager. Let's see what happens with that.

Lack of 64-bit plug-in's: While there is a great workaround for this, I still have to run Firefox 2 x86 to be able to use Adobe's Flash and Shockwave players, so as to be able to use the web as I am used to doing. IE7 64-bit has the same problem, which is another reason not to switch to IE7 as my main browser. Hopefully, these plug-in's will be available shortly.

I'll update this list when (if?) I discover any other improvements and/or issues with Vista 64-bit. However, so far, so very very good!

EDIT: Firefox problem FIXED! I just uninstalled TabMixPlus, and installed Session Manager, and what do you know, the session, with 11 open tabs, was not deleted! This is great, as it was annoying to lose the session every time I rebooted. So stay away from TabMixPlus for now, fellow Firefox 2 users.

EDIT 2: Tab Mix Plus works FINE!!! So does Steam. See below!

[pae77]

I'm not having any probs with latest version of FF (not the beta), but I don't use that extension you mentioned. I can't stand IE. Only use it when forced to when a page won't work in FF even with the IE Tab extension.

[Crunch]

I'm not having any probs with latest version of FF (not the beta), but I don't use that extension you mentioned. I can't stand IE. Only use it when forced to when a page won't work in FF even with the IE Tab extension.

I don't either, but the problem was isolated to the TMP extension, so all is well with Firefox 2 now. Session Manager works without a hitch.

[Crunch]

Update: I kind of had a feeling about this, but Firefox 2 users: Tab Mix Plus works just fine under x64!!

The "culprit" was my having installed both Firefox 2 AND FF3 (Beta 3 a.k.a. Minefield) at the same time. I uninstalled FF3 Beta 3 a while ago, and just recently came to the conclusion, that it had probably interfered, and sure enough, it had. I re-installed the TBP extension, restarted, and it worked. Then Session Manager. Uninstalled, rebooted, works just fine. So now I have ONLY TBP (which I prefer to Session Manager) for managing tabs, and no "quick links" on the toolbar are missing and TBP works without any problems.

On a different note, I won two free games that run under Steam, so I thought, alright, perfect time to test the only app I had not yet re-installed after migrating to 64-bit. Not only does it work flawlessly, but the games even enter a "64-bit mode"...More realistic and visually stunning games I have never seen until now!

Now the only things I am missing are 64-bit browser plug-in's, so I can use either Minefield (ideally when it is officially released) and IE7 x64. The browsing experience is so amazing, but I am forced to use FF2 x86, as well as IE7 x86, and I don't understand how anybody browses without, at a minimum, the Adobe Flash Player plug-in, for example. There's one I stumbled on that works , but the sites I frequent require the Adobe ones. I watch a lot of CNN and NBC News, and both of those, amongst many others require the Flash player. Is anyone aware of beta plug-in's, or an ETA as to when they'll be released?

[Indy]

I took the 64-bit jump this week and I'm truly amazed at the difference in performance... My T61p is now very fast - even ith 32-bit applications... It's just a shame that it wasn't like this out of the box.

[Crunch]

I took the 64-bit jump this week and I'm truly amazed at the difference in performance... My T61p is now very fast - even ith 32-bit applications... It's just a shame that it wasn't like this out of the box.

Awesome! Glad to hear it. I can't wait for Firefox 3 x64 to come out, but still, I need those 64-bit plug-in's.

So you also notice significant(!) improvements in 32-bit apps? Which ones, if I may ask.

[rhema83]

I have upgraded from Vista Business x86 to Vista Business x64 SP1, for more than a week now. The startup and shutdown times have reduced drastically. I have almost never seen a Windows computer boot this fast, with the exception of fresh clean installations.

File copying has also improved significantly. It is most noticable when you finish downloading a large file. Previously, the download dialog would almost stop responding for a few seconds while the system copies the file from the temporary location to the designated download location. Now, that few seconds have been reduced to a brief moment.

My programs are all running fine. Media players such as iTunes and RealPlayer work without hiccups. Engineering programs usually have native x64 support (MathCAD, MATLAB, AutoCAD) so they run even faster. Office applications show no noticable difference since they don't use much resources in the first place.

I don't know what else to say. I am getting used to this new setup and I am a very satisfied user. I am really hoping that there will be more support for x64 applications in future.

[richarddd]

How does Vista x64 compare to XP in terms of speed? From this thread, it seems clear that Vista x64 is faster than Vista, but others suggest even Vista x64 is slower the XP.

[red bioroid]

Hi Crunch:

Can you help me with these games for Win Vista 64? I can't get them to install or run under any compatibility mode.

1. Quake 3 Arena: The OS won't even let me install it.
2. Max Payne: The OS won't even let me install it.
3. Far Cry: I got the game to install and loaded patch 1.4. But after I hit the Play button. It came back saying " This program has stop working"

If I can just get Far Cry to work, I'd be a happy camper.

[tylerwylie]

I'm very impressed with the x86_64 bit support in Windows Vista, it's actually usable unlike 64 bit XP. I run Vista in a Virtual Machine however, and it runs just fine .

VMWare Workstation ftw.

[rhema83]

By the way, Vista x64 does have some quirks. Be warned!

When UAC is turned on, MS Office may give you "this application is not installed for the current user" errors. The only way to fix that is to turn UAC off.

Adobe Creative Suite CS3 does not update correctly when UAC is turned on. The PDF printer does NOT work at all. The PDF preview handler also doesn't work, and I recommend the FoxIt version instead.

There are also numerous other little things you need to fix to make your ride smoother. Just remember, don't turn on UAC or all hell will break loose. I wonder why Microsoft is breaking its own applications when UAC is meant to be left on.

[gpgofast]

Generally, if an application runs with Vista 32, it also runs with Vista 64 in 32 bit mode.

...
There is some hardware which claims to support Vista 64, but does it wrongly: Hauppauge WinTV cards are an example: They don't work with more than 3GB of memory in the system.

All in all, I personally am waiting for new Hauppauge drivers, and for the 64 bit Microsoft Home Server connector. Everything else works.

Regards, Martin

I've got no problems with my Hauppauge tuner running Vista 64. I'm also waiting on Homeserver 64 bit connector.

[tinue]

I've got no problems with my Hauppauge tuner running Vista 64. I'm also waiting on Homeserver 64 bit connector.

They are fixing the drivers by age, beginning with the newest model. I have the WinTV PVR 500, which (according to a post on the Hauppauge site) will be the last model still to be fixed. Older models won't get new drivers.
You probably have a newer model.

Regards, Martin

[Crunch]

bioroid...Sorry, cannot help with games for the most part. Are the three games you mentioned Do they run under Steam?

You speak of compatibility modes...Installing x86 games and applications should just be installed. The Vista x64 will automatically put them in the Program Files(x86) folder if they're 32-bit.

The "signed driver must-have issue" has been taken care of. I haven't needed it, or the BIOS whitelist hack, so I have not messed around with either. I see some people want to install UNSIGNED drivers?? I'll make sure to PM you later.

tylerwylie: No kidding about the VMWare....

As for XP 64-bit, it sucks. It's NOTHING like Vista 64-bit. It never took off, and the lack of interest and available drivers made it one of MS's biggest disasters...(see WinMe haha)

richarddd: Vista vs. XP:

This depends in large part what the user's system looks like. Pentium M or high-end Core 2 Duo? 1GB RAM or 4GB? The comparison is dependent not only on the OS, but the hardware used.

[richarddd]

richarddd: Vista vs. XP:

This depends in large part what the user's system looks like. Pentium M or high-end Core 2 Duo? 1GB RAM or 4GB? The comparison is dependent not only on the OS, but the hardware used.

x61s with Core 2 Duo and 3gb RAM (willing to go to 4gb if it made a real difference).

Will v64 run faster in vmware on XP than v86 runs?

[Crunch]

richarddd: Vista vs. XP:

This depends in large part what the user's system looks like. Pentium M or high-end Core 2 Duo? 1GB RAM or 4GB? The comparison is dependent not only on the OS, but the hardware used.

x61s with Core 2 Duo and 3gb RAM (willing to go to 4gb if it made a real difference).

Will v64 run faster in vmware on XP than v86 runs?

It will make a difference if you have a need for the 4th GB. I tried mine both with 3, and 4GB. No difference, as I usually don't even go over 2.5GB. My system is limited to 3GB addressable RAM, just FYI, but it still doesn't make a difference, as I have never come close to even 3GB.

I have just installed VMWare, but not used it as of yet. XP is so lightweight, comparatively speaking that I doubt you'll need 4GB's.

What will you use the X61 for? 4GB are usually only necessary with graphic-intensive applications, such as AutoCAD, Photoshop, or gaming, or example. It had better be a highly graphic-intensive game, though! How strong a Core 2 Duo will you employ?