Partition table error with Partition Magic; how to fix?

[Marc_G]

Hi folks-

I'm getting an error with Partition Magic 8 (either running in Windows XP or in DOS) to the effect that "Disk 1 (76316MB 10337c 240 63s) appears to have partitions created using a different drive geometry (255 h 63s)" and then tells me how serious a problem it is and that I should backup and make new partitions.

Drive Image similarly chokes on the drive which is the real reason for my concern.

The system is working fine, and Ghost seems to have no trouble making backups (which work when I restore them).

Still, I'd like to fix the problem. I'm using an 80 GB drive, not the original 60 GB drive. The errors probably came about when the original system on the 60 GB drive was modified (with Partition Magic) to shrink the original C partition down to 20 GB; the service partition was moved at the same time. Eventually both partitions were copied over to the 80 GB drive, new partitions added, and later the service partition deleted and everything adjusted to new partition sizes. I think I've disabled the BIOS service partition protection. With ghost (version 9) I may have used some wrong switches (including the drive signature, copying MBR).

So, a lot has happened over the last month or so. Any ideas how to correct this? I have an external 80 GB USB2 drive, as well as the original 60 GB drive in the ultrabay caddy adaptor.

If I could fix the C: partition it would be a simple matter to delete all the other partitions and recreate them properly, then copy the files back into them.

Thoughts?

I've googled quite a bit but have found few helpful references for this particular problem. Doing a complete reinstall isn't an option due to some corporate stuff installed. I can't replicate that.

Marc

[Marc_G]

PS: I did see the thread on this forum from last May (same problem) but there wasn't anything there about how to correct the situation so that PM and DI could work with the drive.

Marc

[s0larian]

I don't know how to fix it without a complete reinstallation. But if you want to to that, then I would do the following (after backing up all data of course):

1. Delete all partitions
2. Clearing out the MBR
The easiest way is booting with a Linux Live CD like knoppix and typing in the following command as root:

Code: Select all

dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hda bs=512 count=1

3. create a new c:\ partition with the software of your choice (fdisk would do it)
OR
just install XP from CD and choose the apropriate size you want for c:\. Let the rest unpartitioned.
4. Do a recovery from the Bios (if you didn't use a XP CD)
5. Create the additional partitions with XP or your favourite Software.

I am using Acronis Disk Manager which leads to less problems resizing partitions compared to Partition Magic. But of course you never know what happens. You should avoid resizing whenever it is possible.

[friedrich-eugen]

Hello Marc-G,

Don't act to swift on it!!! PM is a nice tool, but it is not always right!

(1) What is Your operating system?

(2) Have You checked Your system-administration/ drives-administration ("Datenträgerverwaltung" in German) in case You use Windows NT/2000/XP ? What does it say?
(3) Have You done a chkdsk on Your drives?

(4) Have You used a different tool to check (!, not to change)?

(5) Does Your problem refer to an external (USB) drive or did Your drive "change" its (logical) "position" within the machine?

I have had such messages concerning USB-drives, as I use to partition and or format them in the ultrabay of my TP, that is they are regarded then as inside by machine and os. Now, if You change their position, as You will do by putting them in an external usb-drive, the machine /os will look at them differently. PM obviously has a problem understanding that correctly in any case.

Maybe there are similar effects under different conditions.

[Marc_G]

Hi guys-

Thanks for the feedback. I'm using Windows XP. At one time the original disk (the 60 GB) didn't have geometry errors, but I actually went through a lot of changes to get to where I am now (went to 80 GB disk #1 and then eventually over to 80 GB disk #2). At some point along the way I used PM8 to resize partitions.

Answers to the questions asked:
-Running Windows XP
-Admin Tools\Computer Management\Storage shows all the drives properly
-Chkdsk reports no errors
-Tried PM8 and PartInfo (which comes with it) both report similar errors.
-It's the primary internal drive.

Partition Magic definitely needs to be updated, but I don't know if Symantec considers it an active product that they will continue to invest in. But I am convinced I've got a problem that can be fixed.

Since both PM and Drive Image have problems with the disk, it really worries me.

I was thinking of doing this; do you think it would work OK:

1. Back everything up (I actually back up in a couple different ways, so I'm covered). Particularly including a Ghost image of the system partition. Plus all the other disk contents on an external USB or maybe on a econd HD in the caddy.

2. Use the Hitachi tool to low-level format the HD and clear the MBR. Then write a new MBR.

3. Boot to dos and run PM8. Create the partitions the way I want them, marking the first one active. Not sure if I can assign letters at this point; it's an NTFS drive.

4. Boot the Ghost recovery CD and use it's tools to extract the FILES (not partition info, just the files) from the system image file into the new active partition.

5. At this point, I SHOULD be able to boot into Windows XP, right?

6. If I get this far, it's a simple matter to copy back the contents of the other partitions to where they need to be.

Is there any flaw in this? Again, I can't do a re-install because of corporate stuff in the system partition that I can't reproduce.

I have many resources in addition to the 80 GB main drive:

-A USB2 drive 80 GB (currently has a backup of the working system from about two weeks ago, though it may not boot if swapped in due to drive letter changes).
-A separate USB2 drive 80 GB that is part of my backup plan; it is populated with contents regularly via BounceBack software.
-A 60 GB drive (which came with the system) that currently is bootable with a fairly recent copy of my system, plus another partition with fairly recent Ghost Image backups. FWIW it has the "geometry errors" as well.
-A 40 GB drive that currently has the factory preload on it.
-The DVD Multiburner, so I can make big image backups on DVD.


Definitely I can work my way through this; it's just a matter of finding the right path. Does my plan seem OK, particularly steps 3-5?

Marc

[s0larian]

there is no need to low-level format your disk. Some people say that can even damage your hdd. Just delete the partitions and clear the MBR. That is enough.

[Marc_G]

Hi s0larian-

Thanks for the info. Using the correct utility from the drive mfr I wonder how I could possibly damage the drive, but if I can clear the partitions and mbr alone, that should do it I agree.

Since PM won't touch the drive, I'll have to clear it out some other way unless I low-level format it. I could easily remove everything except the system partition in Windows. I suppose I could go in with FDISK and wipe it...

Marc

[s0larian]

clear the mbr like I described in my 1. response in this thread. This is the fastest and easiest way, I did it myself without any problems.

Another dos-based method is described here:
http://ldp.rtin.bz/LDP/LG/issue63/okopnik.html

I don't know exactly why low-level formatting is considered as bad for the drive, but I read it many times.

[friedrich-eugen]

Hello Marc-G,

I do agree with s0larian,

having backedup Your partitions ( I'm not sure, whether You should use ghost (another thread in these forums suggests that it may produce problems with IBM's hdds (IBM uses a "larger" mbr(?!)) in IBM TPs), but using acronis should do the job properly.),

use the "softest" means You can find, to start. Take care to preserve the recovery partition on your hdd (it is a hidden, fat32 one, called IBM_service), delete other existing partitions, repartition and reformat Your hdd.

I have used PM 8/DI 7 on my Tps without any Problem, but I have used those patched versions (8.01!, 7.01!), I loaded from the internet and expanded to CD.

Low-level-formating, if tools do offer it, does mean stressing your hdd physically, which may result in failures, which may result in loosing the hdd without any need to.

Good Luck

[Marc_G]

Hi guys-

Thanks for the continued followups. I appreciate it!

Basically, the plan I outlined above didn't work to result in a bootable drive.

While you were typing away with your suggestions, I had found an old 20 GB drive. For kicks I low-level formatted it (concerns about LLF noted; this drive I don't care about), created a couple partitions on it with PM8 (DOS version; not sure exact version but I'll look into making sure I have 8.01), set the first partition (10 GB NTFS) active, and copied all my C: drive stuff into it (more on this in a minute), and attempted to boot.

Nothing.

Then I remembered I had forgotten to fdisk/mbr it. Ran into some trouble when I booted my USB key to DOS; it was recognized as C: and fdisk/mbr worked on it rather than the real HD. Dug out my old floppy USB drive and got that to work. Properly FDISK/MBR'ed the hard drive.

Rebooted. Nothing. Black screen with flashing cursor. Not even a "missing OS" warning.

Any ideas why this process doesn't result in a bootable drive?

About the "copying of the files:" hoo boy. I thought it would be an easy matter to use a Ghost image as the source, and just copy the files out onto my newly created (by PM8) first partition.

Well, it was easy, but it was SLOW. Once started, it took 5 hours!!! Hence my lack of response for a while. For about 4 GB worth of files. This was from a DVD, by the way. A normal restore of this much data would take maybe half an hour. Ghost's file restore process must really suck. But the data are there...

Just no boot.

I'm glad I tried this on a drive other than my main one, although of course I could have restored the functional ghost image intact.

Friedrich- thanks for the warning about the service partition, but I have removed that long ago. I have the restore CDs, and an IBM-stock image is useless to me anyway, as I need corporate stuff that was installed by my IT folks; I don't have the ability to reproduce that. Otherwise, I might just start over with a preload.

Since I'm using a drive that didn't have the trouble I originally described, I'm not sure what's going wrong here. Any ideas?

Marc

[egibbs]

Differences in drive geometry?

Try installing Windows on the 20 GB drive first, then if it boots copy over the data files if you want.

Ed Gibbs

[Marc_G]

Hi Ed-

I think I get what you are suggesting: do a regular windows installation onto the drive, then copy over the files (overwriting most files) and voila it should work.

I may revert to this if need be.

Before doing that, I'd like to learn enough to do it the other way. This is a fun experience, though somewhat time hogging.

Marc

[egibbs]

If you want to try fooling around, you could try a repair install. Boot from a Windows CD and let it try to fix the installation.

Windows expects some boot related files to be in specific physical locations on the drive. So copying an image from one size drive to another doesn't always work. The repair install may be able to correct it, or may not.

Good luck, have fun.

Ed Gibbs

[Marc_G]

Very good idea. To do this I need to build an XP-SP2 bootable CD. I've got a link I just need to follow it...

Marc

[Marc_G]

Thinkpadders-

As I write this, my beautiful T42p 1.8GHz 1.5GB RAM UXGA system is positively [censored] at me.

Why? Because it's running XP off an old 20 GB drive. Slower than heck, but it works!

Following up on the repair install idea, I made an XPSP2 slipstreamed bootable CD and booted into the recovery environment. First I tried the "FixMBR" program. It detected a problem with the MBR and fixed it.

This still did not allow the system to boot, though. I next went back into the recovery environment and used the FixBoot program to write a new boot sector.

This did work, and the system booted. It came up with ChkDsk and verified that all was OK on the system. I think it noted some free space marked as unallocated, or something like that, which it fixed quickly before I could capture the error in my memory. Then it booted normally, but, finding a new HDD, installed appropriate drivers for it, and rebooted once more. Finally, the system stabilized and in fact I'm writing from it.

Partition Magic has no problem with the system at this point. So, the means I put forth (but appending the fixmbr and fixboot steps) to get out of the drive geometry error is a valid one, though perhaps a bit clunky.

I wonder if running fix mbr and fixboot alone would cure the ills I've got on my main drive without going through the whole "move files, remove partitions, repartition, replace files" rigamarole. I think I'll try it, after suitably backing up anything that has changed since the last backup.

I'll experiment a bit and be in touch.

Marc

[Marc_G]

OK, the quick answer, as expected, is that NO, just running FixMBR and FixBoot isn't enough to clear the drive geometry error. I tried it on a 60 GB drive that I had that was giving a similar error and it didn't fix it. Didn't hurt anything, though.

OK. Next step is for me to make sure I'm redundantly backed up, then just go for it, wiping all partitions then copying stuff back over.

My thought is just to use this 60 GB drive as a host OS for the copying, rather than doing the ghost thing again. That was too slow.

Wish me luck!

Marc

[Marc_G]

IT WORKED!!! (sound of angels singing in background)

My 80 GB main drive is now a PM8-accessible drive, boots properly, and so far, so good. There are a few caveats I'll list at the bottom; any thoughts regarding those would be welcome!

Here's what I did:

Step 0: BACKED UP REDUNDANTLY. I actually have 4 different backup strategies tonight! Notably including cloning the system partition over to a USB HD, which was used to restore from.

1. With the 80 GB drive installed as primary, I booted from the XP SP2 CD that I had made earlier, went into Repair, and ran FixMBR and FixBoot. FixMBR did find problems and reported correcting them.

2. Still in Repair, I was able to remove most partitions. It gave me some nasties about the system partition.

3. I booted my DOS Win98 USB key and removed the system partition. Bingo. Clean HD.

4. Went into DOS Partition Magic. Created various partitions; for now left them unformatted.

5. Removed primary HD. Installed my 60 GB backup of my XP installation, which incidentally has similar problems as the 80 GB drive. Booted to XP. Installed the 80 GB in the UltraSlim bay caddy and inserted it.

6. Went into XP-based Partition Magic run from the 60 GB drive. Finished setting up and formatting the partitions in the Ultraslim bay.

7. Adjusted drive letters to be what they should be except the 80 GB's drive letter that I assigned arbitrarily to Q, since C: was taken by the 60 GB system partition.

8. Did a file-wise copy from the external USB drive system partition that I had made earlier back onto my Q: partition. This took half an hour. Since this clone of the system wasn't active, none of the files were reserved by the system.

9. Set my "Q" drive in the ultrabay to be active, then removed the Q drive letter association. So, at this point my recreated 80 GB drive had 6 partitions, with the first one containing the system files but no drive letter, then various partitions D through H that were empty but formatted.

10. Safely removed the Ultrabay drive. Shut down Windows.

11. Swapped the 80 GB drive into the primary slot. Booted. It noticed some changes and initiated ChkDsk; came back clean; boot continued. Noted some changes; suggested a reboot. Did that, next boot was normal, or almost so.

I had thought I might need to go into the repair installation and reset the active boot, but apparently not!

Only a few things to note that seem a bit weird:

A. My C: drive used to show up in the list as highlighted via blue text. It doesn't do that anymore. Any idea how to get it back? It was cute.

B. Most of my applications show up as "newly installed" with the orange highlighting in the Start Menu. I don't care, but I find this weird.

C. I'm getting errors when I get to the desktop after boot about IBM Active disk protection. I'm thinking to uninstall / reinstall it.

D. I think I freaked some of my apps out; when I started up MS Word it tried to run the installer tool before bringing up the application. My MSO Cache isn't yet reinstalled on the H partition so I cancelled that out...

All in all it's looking good, though I have some copying-back of all my data from the various partitions to do. It's been going on while I've typed this but will continue for another hour maybe 2. I should have put more on the 60 GB drive and less on the USB2 drive...

Will make a final report tomorrow.

Thanks for all your support.

Marc

[friedrich-eugen]

Hello Marc-G,

just been back, congratulations, as far as I can see, You overcame the first and most important hurdle.

In fact, my experience with backup tools compared with imageing tools does favor imageing tools. My experience with copying constellations does favor the use of built in second harddisks (ultrabay).

You should not wonder that Your system does not behave yet quite the way it was before, as probabely it will still have to find all registered programs it had known before, as only the system partition is presently present.

Your observations:

- A blue-highlight for a drive I know as marking it as compressed, You should not have that on Your system-partition (at most & only for data-directories under C).

-Did You use (& look at) the drives-administration unter system- administration after the copying Process for c was finished? Is the Info on C the one You want to see?

- Copying Your system-partition has probabely changed some data-info on some program-files. This for itself should not bother You.

- IBM-Tools might be sensible to such copying process, as probably are MS-Programs. Do test Your IBM-Drivers & Tools and do test Your MS-Programs and run repair-install, whenever You meet unprecedented errors and/or run into messages You did not have before. (To repair MS-office You will need the installation-CD (directory)).

- Run some kind of registry-repair-tool after all has been done ( I have used the norton-systemworks-tool, but there may well be better ones).

Once again, good luck

[egibbs]

So what are you going to do for a hobby now that you've fixed it?

Seriously - if you are just fooling around having fun then more power to you. But if you want a stable, low maintenance system that you don't have to muck with then I recommend just going with a single big partition.

I know others will disagree with me, but I've tried it both ways and can't see any advantage in having multiple partitions. I have Partition Magic, Dirve Image, etc. and have done a lot of fooling around with them - like you I wound up spending more time fixing induced problems than I saved.

Sure it's nice to be able to restore a system partition without touching data - but that means you need to do separate backups for the system and data partitions. And with the way Windoze insists on modifying system files evertime you touch your mouse there is no guarantee that things won't be out of synch when you restore the system - witness your little glitches.

I used to backup using Drive Image from floppy, but the network support sucked (at least for the version I had). It refused to talk to my Network Attached Storage (which runs an embedded Linux) and I wound up having to image my laptop to my desktop then copy the image to the NAS.

I currently have one big partition on both the TP and the desktop, and have no problems with it. Despite swearing I would never use the IBM backup software again (after some issues with Rapid Restore a couple years ago) when I got my T42p I was pleasantly surprised at how much better Rescue and Recovery is, and it has no trouble speaking to the NAS directly. So my current backup scheme is to backup using R&R to the NAS once a week, and once a month or so I do an MS Backup to the NAS. When the NAS gets full I burn everything off to DVD and start over.

Of course I understand wanting to play. But when you get tired of playing consider taking the simple approach.

Ed Gibbs

[Marc_G]

Hi egibbs-

Thanks for the details. I'm a fan of partitions; have been since I encountered repeated problems with using a single big partition back in the early NT days. So, I'm on the other side of the fence. Keep in mind that I have somewhat special needs, with GB sized virtual machines, Lotus Notes databases that fragment the heck out of the drive unless corralled to their own partition, and so on.

Now that the system has correct partitions the way I want them, I won't be fooling with them anymore. I'm done playing. And with the problems with the partition table done, I think I can revert to Drive Image. Ghost had some nice features but I was always more comfortable with DI from my trusty old USB key.


Friedrich- Thanks for the info about the blue drive. I wonder why my system drive was set to be compressed before?? Anyway, this explains why the files take up more space, which I just noticed after reading your explanation.

So far things are working well. I will use a registry cleaner as you suggest, though there shouldn't be anything in there now that wasn't there before.

I'll sort out the Active Protection thing and I think I'll be done.

Thanks all!

Marc

[Marc_G]

One final note:

After going through this process, for the first time since getting the TP I was able to image it with Drive Image 2002 (from DOS mode). It had choked on the drive ever since I got it. Ghost was able to work but never DI2002 until now...