What does Rescue and Recovery image?

[keithsketchley]

Does it do a current image or just the factory partition?

What's needed is an image of updated configuration - all the driver and Windows updates. I believe True Image will do that, does RnR?

[killer]

The first time R&R is run it creates a full copy of your current system. Any back-ups taken thereafter are incremental.

Creating a set of factory recovery disks is achieved by using Create Recovery Media ... which is nothing to do with R&R.

I hope this helps.

[RealBlackStuff]

I wouldn't trust R&R.
Rather, spend a few bucks and get Acronis TrueImage.

[keithsketchley]

Thanks, I want TI but for multiple computers it adds up.

[killer]

TrueImage may be better than R&R. I don't know. R&R has never let me down, but it is important to take external backups of R&R if you want to be secure.

[keithsketchley]

So if RnR is run after updating drivers, Lenovo utility SW, and Windows will RnR’s image include those updates, or just the original factory load from the factory recovery disks?
Will the make-recovery-disks option include those updates? (I know from experience it does not include applications such as Microsoft Office.)

I tried to test RnR v4.23.0016 this morning but it won't recognize that there is a blank in the optical drive, haven't had time to troubleshoot yet.

Does Microsoft Update update the .cab files? (I asked Microsoft but their support person was incompetent (did not have a clue what .cab files were) and when s/he finally escalated to colleague(s) I never heard from them again on the subject.

(There’s much in IBM/Lenovo utilities etc., but I can see advantages to a simple Windows installation + drivers – such as small computer shops make on generic hardware.)

[killer]

I have tried to make this as plain as possible; the first time R&R does a back up it takes a copy of your hard disk. Thereafter, when you do a back up, it is incremental to your first back up.

You can do this 10 times a day if you wish. Most people do it after significant changes and also on a weekly basis. People who wish to guard against loss of data make sure that they copy the back ups to an external drive or DVD.

Do not confuse 'factory restore' and 'create recovery media' with R&R.

Microsoft and R&R are unrelated. Do not confuse the two.

It really isn't difficult if you RTFM.

[keithsketchley]

You are ignoring the vagueness/misuse of terms like "backup", which TI labels their product. Is a "backup" user(s) data only? Or full contents of the HDD? If the later, how does that restoration from that "backup" differ from a recovery CD?

"Image" is also loosely used, including perhaps by me.

What I want is to be able to do firstly is completely restore contents of my HDD (at time I made the image of an updated configuration).
Backup afterward is great too.
TI claim to do both, but has its own complexities thus risks of incompatibility with specific computer and applications.

There is of course Image Ultra Builder from IBM/Lenovo, a program meant for
people taking care of many computers with variations among them in software load and hardware - it makes a reload/new load image by splitting the normal image into modules from which the administraotr can choose ones for differing hardware.

Beware that True Image requires special sequence/drive location to clone a Thinkpad drive, due to the way IBM set up the hidden partition.

Also there seem to be other problems with TI on Thinkpads, depending perhaps on freshness of TI - v2011 has been out for a while now so hopefully has been fixed where needed instead of waiting for next year.

[killer]

What is it about my summary of R&R that is confusing? It is all covered in R&R's help section. Go to R&R and select 'Launch Advanced R&R' then click on Help at the top. Everything is there.

I have used R&R to restore a system exactly as it was when the last backup was made. It really is quite a simple concept; you make a copy of your hard disk, and then do incremental backups. If anything goes horribly wrong then you recover to a working system. However, if your HDD fails then you might find that recovery isn't possible. That's why advanced R&R lets you copy all backups (base and increments) to an external HDD, DVD, CD, etc.

RTFM, and then use sensible administrative procedures.

[keithsketchley]

RYOFM and think.

You now describe what you achieved which is far better than terminology like backup, thankyou.

One problem is you throw in other things like factory recovery discs which is not what I asked.
I did mention concerns about what IBM/Lenovo and Microsoft were doing, which you jumped on.

Having been burned by Symantec, whose Ghost version I bought did not do what was inferred, I use the proper administrative procedure of ensuring good understanding.

[RealBlackStuff]

Thanks, I want TI but for multiple computers it adds up.

You buy only one TI. From inside the program, you create a bootable CD.
With that you can image as many PCs as you like, without having to install the program.
Only 1 license required.

[keithsketchley]

<You buy only one TI. From inside the program, you create a bootable CD.
With that you can image as many PCs as you like, without having to install the program.
Only 1 license required>

Thanks, but.....
To use it for backup as well requires a license for each computer being backed up?
Some license policy is at http://kb.acronis.com/content/11997

IOW, does regular TI (home and small office) have to be installed on each computer being backed up? (There's probably a network version that could interrogate computers regularly but that's a different version.)

[RealBlackStuff]

Maybe I am touching borderline issues here, but I can use my TI CD (made from a legal purchase) on all machines I throw it at.
I don't do backups, I take full images all the time.
They take very little time (compared to a backup) and a restore of an image takes also minimal time.
I'll leave it at that...

[keithsketchley]

I'll cover my testing of RnR 4.23 later (it works but does not really delete backups from external media, leaving a mess). Meanwhile:

RE LICENSE COVERAGE
I presume Acronis’ license terms allow moving the software from one computer to another, but not simultaneous installation. But terms might have changed from earlier years – I do not know. The current End User License Agreement is available for both home and corporate from the licensing link I provided earlier.
The EULA for home use is the usual verbose redundant incompetent-lawyer babble that doesn’t even protect Acronis’ own interests. It does say <Acronis grants and you accept a non-exclusive, nontransferable, non-assignable license to use Software in accordance with its documentation, only for your own internal use solely on the specific number of computers that you have licensed.> The purchase page is not fully clear on what one is buying – presumably a “license” (which in the industry does not define specific number of computers – “site license” for example doesn’t), the hard-to-find product licensing table page is specific that for TI Home 2011 one license covers one physical machine (but it does not clarify if that is installed as on a donor machine). (OTOH, TI Home 2011 Online Backup version covers five physical machines. And the versions including a security software cover three physical machines, but you don’t want them if you’ve just renewed your security software license from someone else.

The EULA for corporate use is clearer, explicitly counting computers including both donor and recipient. For the “standard” license <One (1) instance of the Hardware installed Software in one physical operating system environment;> which seems to have grammatical errors that fuzz its meaning. (Other licenses for servers may include more computers or virtual partitions.)
A “home” license is of course envisioned for very few computers, with any quantity one of the "corporate" licenses would be better.

PS: Does “nontransferable, non-assignable” mean a purchaser cannot give the license to someone else? That’s not normal.

[RealBlackStuff]

What's the point of dragging this out?
You're more than welcome to buy as many licenses as you want/need.

[keithsketchley]

ESTING RnR
I went through creating a first RnR backup set, with RnR 4.23.0016.00, which it’s initial dialogue boxes say can be used to rescue, later ones say backup.

If you backup to the local HDD you can later create CD/DVDs from a backup made to the HDD, the Help function says. That’s a better sequence for regular backup use because keeping a copy on your HDD allows restoration of individual files whereas from CD/DVD does not. RnR run at computer startup with its Startup DVD in the drive does have an option to rescue individual files to external media, but I assume that is from the HDD not the DVD set – just facilitates getting data off the HDD when Windows is corrupted beyond repair.) It is very limited in where recovered files can be put, other than restoring to original location which I suppose is what you’d normally want to do, I think it can recover to external media. I tested that RnR can booted from a base backup on USB HDD (it puts Preboot and MiniNT folders on the drive as well as a few files in the root (I presume MiniNT is the small version of Windows that is provided by Microsoft Recovery Console).

RnR does not let you see the files directly in “RnR Backups” folder in the root of the boot HDD (denies access). But it does let you see them if on an external HDD if copied there – except you cannot delete them from there either, even on a computer without RnR, which is not good practice as different external media might be used on the road versus at home. After deleting all backups with RnR the folder name is still on the local HDD, and the folders it put on the USB HDD are still there except for the “0” folder in RRbackups\C and cannot be deleted, which includes user data! RnR is still booted from the USB HDD because the boot files it put on it are still there. (You may need to set Windows Explorer view to show hidden system files to see the RnR backups folder.)

Of course the acid test is successfully restoring an HDD, which I will cautiously work on in case it fails and I have to spend several hours reloading from factory set + Lenovo and Microsoft updates. I need a spare HDD, but 1.8” are pricey. (Maybe I could make an extender cable to the 2.5” I want to buy for another reason, assuming I can get by the Thinkpad special stuff by accepting a compatibility error or setting the BIOS to ignore it.)

....continued in next post by me...

[keithsketchley]

TESTING RnR continued...

You need to delete backups from external media, of course, to re-use them. RnR has some capabilities but limitations, UI obscurity, and defects in deleting. It has a Delete backups option in pull-down menus, but only shows one location at a time (you have to change the location settings in Preferences to see the other ones. It takes some getting used to the options and the combination of buttons and pull-down menus (only partly duplicating commands).

The Help function says the base “backup” cannot be updated, but commanding backup to different media creates a new base backup on each, and after deleting all backups RnR creates a new base backup. (Otherwise it just over-writes the oldest incremental backup when the maximum number of incrementals is reached – that can be set to as little as 2.)

So far I find RnR’s user interface adequate, but you do have to be careful to understand a few things, like what removing means in one dialogue. Help is available as “killer” pointed out (clearly written for the most part, but not deep - in contrast to System Migration Assistant’s which looks deeper). You should read the main part of the “deployment guide”, which includes precautions (for example, there are problems with Computrace and Microsoft Recovery Console (which has useful capabilities that RnR does not).

Conclusion: RnR 4.23 has promise for full and ongoing backup, but does not handle some things in an efficient way, lacks some needed capabilities, has defects in deleting backups, and takes more learning than first apparent especially if you want to minimize space used on the local HDD or removable HDD. “The price is right” of course, n/c.

[keithsketchley]

BACKUP/IMAGING CONSIDERATIONS
There are other considerations for backups, TI is apparently full of features, RnR 4.23 has several.
- I covered deletion of files earlier. Also I see there is an ISO file in RnR’s program folders, perhaps it is the Startup disc.)
- One essential capability is finding user data hidden in application “program files” directories. I expect RnR 4.23 covers that by simply copying everything initially and everything that has changed for incremental backups (some “backup” programs have to be told, perhaps already knowing where common ones like Outlook hide their data).
- External media:
o RnR does boot from a backup on a USB HDD.
o RnR can backup to a networked location.
o It appears to simultaneously backup to 2 locations if both primary & secondary are listed.
- If you delete all backups it knows about it has to start again with a base backup.
- Being able to look in the image directly sounds useful, RnR 4.23 cannot restore individual files from CD/DVD backup media but probably can from backup stored on HDD.
- Being able to use a more universal image format (e.g., if you want to image a CD with software like RecordNow you can choose between its proprietary format and ISO standard).
- RnR launched during startup has maintenance & communication functions not provided when launched from within Windows.
- Password is important sensitive information, RnR 4.23 has capability.
- Excluding files/folders is partly supported in RnR 4.23, to reduce size especially multiple incrementals.
- RnR 4.23 can be commanded to restore only the Windows o/s and applications files defined by Microsoft as critical, c/w Windows o/s UID+PW but not CSS passphrase – that seems to provide capability to load another person’s computer (I assume the Windows UID+PW is the Windows boot one not user's).
- Handling of encrypted folders and partitions is a question, RnR 4.23 has some ability to cope with Windows’ Encrypted File System with a special procedure.