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T70 pushing 100 degrees under full load

Old(er) Thinkpads with New(er) Intestines: X62 / T50 / T70 / etc.
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sona1111
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Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:27 pm
Location: Franklin Park, NJ

T70 pushing 100 degrees under full load

#1 Post by sona1111 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:20 am

Hi All,

I have been using the T70 design (with i5) for about 6 months or so now. I run ubuntu 17.10 and I have the lm-sensors package installed, where I can see an indication of the current temp at the top of my screen at all times. When putting it together I used arctic silver as I do with pretty much all of my builds, where I have never had significant issues. On the T70 things have been well the majority of the time, even at 100% cpu load I usually go between 70-80 degrees, which is acceptable to me. However, recently I started using blender for a project and the rendering has caused the cpu to reach 100 degrees as reported by lm-sensors. I Found that this is because blender makes use of both the cpu and the intel gpu when rendering.

This concerns me, has anyone else had this issue, is it to be expected? Is there any other type of cooler I can use? If not should I try to fix some bios settings to reduce the gpu clock speed or something?

Appreciate your input.

RealBlackStuff
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Re: T70 pushing 100 degrees under full load

#2 Post by RealBlackStuff » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:32 pm

Replace the thermal paste with Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut, should be a lot better than AS.
Have you tried different fans, such as the discrete ones from T61/p or T500/W500?
Lovely day for a Guinness! (The Real Black Stuff)

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sona1111
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:27 pm
Location: Franklin Park, NJ

Re: T70 pushing 100 degrees under full load

#3 Post by sona1111 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:46 pm

Hey RealBlackStuff,

Thanks for the suggestion, I will be sure to try out your paste suggestion. I have just used the cooler which was shipped along with the T70 board, Would you recommend that I look for a T500 or W500 replacement HSF and try that instead? Are there significant modifications of the case/rollcage needed if I go this route?

Thanks again.

NonesensE
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Location: GF/BS/OHA, Germany

Re: T70 pushing 100 degrees under full load

#4 Post by NonesensE » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:04 pm

Which BIOS are you on? The newest version (180115) uses much more power than the previous ones, at least on windows. The coolest version is 170904 when activating ASPM for every PCIe device (this enables windows to use package C-state 8), but this version crashes when you wake up the machine from standby by opening the lid. I think linux has options to override BIOS ASPM settings (force ASPM), so any version between those mentioned should be fine for you. And will work with lid standby.

Then you should try undervolting (luckily, the T70 has these options in BIOS, undervolting tools for linux for newer intel processors are still in development), this will have a massive impact if it works fine with your processor. The i7 7700HQ T70's i heard of, including mine, allow more than 100mV of undervolting. wujstefan's 7820HQ unfortunately doesn't when using package C-states. YMMV. Always use offset values, not fixed values.

On the other hand, better cooling would of course be desireable. I just installed blender and run a test rendering. The CPU reached up to 100°C and throttled to 3.2-3.4 GHz. Probably some BIOS setting would allow us to use throttling at a lower temperature but what we really want is full speed at a lower temperature.

There's a fan assembly with optional water cooling available from 51nb but I'd prefer air cooling in a laptop. wujstefan suggested a fan mod along the lines of the elitebook 8740w mod descrebed in the notebookreview.com forum. And I'm thinking about routing the heatpipes to where the copper block is. We'll see.

Edit: I couldn't get the system to automatically throttle at a lower temperature yet, but by configuring the turbo ratio limit for 4 active cores down from 34 to 30, I could limit the system to a healthy 80°C under blender rendering load.
Sometimes coming over from the German forum...
X62s 3rd batch, [s]T61[/s] T70 14" 4:3 1st batch

wujstefan
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Re: T70 pushing 100 degrees under full load

#5 Post by wujstefan » Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:27 am

My fingers are lame today. I'm writing this post 3rd time today.

I'd like to add my $0,02 since I fought the issue hard lately.

Have in mind that I am using Windows on this system for my CAD/CAM, and hence am supported by intel XTU to undervolt. However, this means having lots of other issues on this one :)

First of all - my i7-7820HK hits the 100C easily under full, real-life load generating CAM when left as-is. I wasnt able to undervolt the system in any bios older than 150118 (just as mentioned by NonesensE), and this mean that I have all the power-saving features disabled. However, power consumption when under heavy load stays the same, and this bios fixes many of the issues that W10 has with T70. It's the like trading something for something - my system is stable, but at a cost of consuming more power under light load / idle.

I was able to stably undervolt this thing by -0,15V on CPU, and -0,11V on GPU. Both are important to me - and to you as well - since both Blender and CAM software loads both CPU and GPU, and use all the resources you've got. I get 100% CPU and 100% RAM consumed when generating CAM.The results are actually better than expected; with turbo on (multiplier 34x on 4 cores) I get lower 80s, and with turbo off I get lower 60s. Pretty nice, especially when turbo is not needed (video streaming, gaming).

As for hardware, I guess here lies the problem. RBS mentioned testing another thermal compounds - since AS5 is not the best one, contains silver, and is not a put-a-rice-drop-and-go to apply. I can suggest using up a bit cheaper thermal comounds than Thermal Grizzly Cryonaut, because I've got on par if not better results with Arctic MX-4 (do not mistake it with Arctic Silver). Tested couple of top thermal compounds, with AS5 giving the worst (!) results considering MAX temps.

When examining the heatsink, I'm sure you noticed a huge block of copper welded to it - and this is the whole things' weak point. First of all, it's not a copper speed pulse mig weld (at least in my case), the surface is not perfect (I've polished mine), and I guess this is not a high-performance molybden-copper plate. This block is just necessary (since the CPU is placed much lower in the chassis than in original T61), and this will cause problems. I think I will try to reproduce a bit different heatsink, and will try to dissipate the heat from the heatsink at lower level, just as mentioned by NonesensE - this may not be as successfull as in 8740w, but I hope to get some reasonable results.
Last edited by wujstefan on Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
Dailies:
T601f, X61sfL - work
HP Elitebook 8740w - multimedia
R61f - wife
R61f - kids
Collectibles:
T43, Z60t, G41, R30, R50e
Under construction:
A31, 600X, R52p, T22, A22m, R40, T30

axur-delmeria
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Location: Metro Manila, Philippines

Re: T70 pushing 100 degrees under full load

#6 Post by axur-delmeria » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:26 am

@wujstefan

That heatsink mod you linked to is quite interesting. I wonder if it can be done successfully on other thermally-constrained Thinkpads like the X series, as well as the T420/430 with quad-core CPUs. :D
Daily driver: X220 4291-P79 i5-2520M

In reserve: X61 T7500, X60 T2300
In pieces: X60s CS U1300 [board only], two retired but working X61Ts
RIP: 760XD 9546-U9E

wujstefan
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Re: T70 pushing 100 degrees under full load

#7 Post by wujstefan » Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:04 pm

Well you never know until you try!

I will try it on some units I have (and that will make use of such mod) - T43, W500, A31p, G41 and - especially - R61i. T43 and R61i may turn the most difficult, but be sure I will share my results.
Dailies:
T601f, X61sfL - work
HP Elitebook 8740w - multimedia
R61f - wife
R61f - kids
Collectibles:
T43, Z60t, G41, R30, R50e
Under construction:
A31, 600X, R52p, T22, A22m, R40, T30

axur-delmeria
ThinkPadder
ThinkPadder
Posts: 1580
Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 5:49 am
Location: Metro Manila, Philippines

Re: T70 pushing 100 degrees under full load

#8 Post by axur-delmeria » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:03 am

wujstefan wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:04 pm
Well you never know until you try!
1. I'll have to find a tube of thermal epoxy first. It seems unavailable in stores here, so I may have to order overseas. I have a few heatsinks from dead laptops, from which I can harvest some copper plates (and hopefully some heatpipes).

2. My X61 T7500 is dead, so my only plaything is a recently-relegated-to-backup X220 (which served me well for 3 years), as I obtained an X220 i7 recently. :D
Daily driver: X220 4291-P79 i5-2520M

In reserve: X61 T7500, X60 T2300
In pieces: X60s CS U1300 [board only], two retired but working X61Ts
RIP: 760XD 9546-U9E

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