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Thinkpad T700 i7-10710 private project

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atagunov
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Re: Thinkpad T700 i7-10710 private project

#31 Post by atagunov » Sat Aug 08, 2020 6:37 am

Apologies, I probably misread your comment. What you did say apparently was that an individual known as HOPE and affiliated with 51nb is somehow affiliated with the new private project and is making statements about it?
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Re: Thinkpad T700 i7-10710 private project

#32 Post by lulujyc » Sat Aug 08, 2020 6:49 am

atagunov wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 6:37 am
Apologies, I probably misread your comment. What you did say apparently was that an individual known as HOPE and affiliated with 51nb is somehow affiliated with the new private project and is making statements about it?
Yeah, HOPE is the guy who started and made these 51nb board projects.
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Re: Thinkpad T700 i7-10710 private project

#33 Post by atagunov » Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:05 am

lulujyc wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 6:49 am
Yeah, HOPE is the guy who started and made these 51nb board projects.
Is he behind the new project? Are there threads on 51nb forum?
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Re: Thinkpad T700 i7-10710 private project

#34 Post by lulujyc » Sat Aug 08, 2020 8:09 am

atagunov wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:05 am
lulujyc wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 6:49 am
Yeah, HOPE is the guy who started and made these 51nb board projects.
Is he behind the new project? Are there threads on 51nb forum?
He is known as the founder of the 51nb :)
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Re: Thinkpad T700 i7-10710 private project

#35 Post by atagunov » Sat Aug 08, 2020 8:12 am

lulujyc wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 8:09 am
He is known as the founder of the 51nb :)
Okay, what I wanted to know was if HOPE is behind T700 private build or is endorsing it. I also suggested that if HOPE is closely linked to 51nb and if HOPE is somehow related to the new project there might be threads about T700 on 51nb forum..

I feel like we need to delete lots of our messages from this thread since we've created quite a lot of flood..
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Re: Thinkpad T700 i7-10710 private project

#36 Post by lulujyc » Sun Aug 09, 2020 7:47 am

atagunov wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 8:12 am
lulujyc wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 8:09 am
He is known as the founder of the 51nb :)
Okay, what I wanted to know was if HOPE is behind T700 private build or is endorsing it. I also suggested that if HOPE is closely linked to 51nb and if HOPE is somehow related to the new project there might be threads about T700 on 51nb forum..

I feel like we need to delete lots of our messages from this thread since we've created quite a lot of flood..
Oops im sorry for the flood. But it's good for others to know that the relation between HOPE and the T700 project. The thing is: HOPE is the guy who gave these updates and he's also in the QQ group that Chinese T700 buyers are in.
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Re: Thinkpad T700 i7-10710 private project

#37 Post by atagunov » Sun Aug 09, 2020 8:59 am

Thx for info! Could you possibly ask them if there's a chance to get EC firmware sources as well?
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Re: Thinkpad T700 i7-10710 private project

#38 Post by atagunov » Sun Aug 09, 2020 9:51 am

Another idea which I think is worth throwing to the makers of T700: two large soldering pads on the motherboard for an extra ON/OFF button

Explanation: this machine will have so much power that it will be totally worth it to use it docked. Imagine: you come home, you dock it - even connect it to a USB-C dock and insert the separate power cable - if that's the only way. Your external monitor gets connected.. but how do you switch the machine on? Okay many people will only use Thinkpad own monitor or both its own and an external one at the same time. There is no problem for them - they will open the Thinkpad anyway. But I'd say it is also fully worth it to only user external monitor(s). And then not having to open the Thinkpad saves you some wear on the hinges and some time too. My solution would be to install an extra on/off button somewhere. It could be accessed from the side of the Thinkpad perhaps, could be some kind of hole where you need to insert a short pin into to prevent accidental switching on in the backpack. Perhaps the Kensington lock hole could be re-used or a new one drilled.

I've been talking to xytech at length about adding such a button to my X2100. This is one of the reasons my X2100 is so late :) I love to use my T520 docked. I very rarely open it. But today I've switched it on/off several times already. I'd absolutely want this on X2100 too. Why would I wear the hinges and expose my screen to dust when I have an option not to?.. However xytech is having a major difficulty adding this button to X2100. Why? It's not clear at all where to solder the wires to. So unless T700 will have conventional docking connector it would make sense to have two large easy to solder to soldering pads on the motherboards for this extra on/off button.

@lulujyc this can be an extra service you offer to your buyers: pay me a little more $$ and I will install this extra button for you. But you'd need those soldering pads for this. Even though it looks like I will not be ordering a T700 myself I wish all future HOPE's and xytech's designs would have either a full docking connector or - if that's not possible - at least these soldering pads for an extra ON/OFF button.
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Re: Thinkpad T700 i7-10710 private project

#39 Post by lulujyc » Sun Aug 09, 2020 11:55 am

atagunov wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 8:59 am
Thx for info! Could you possibly ask them if there's a chance to get EC firmware sources as well?
Haha thanks for your idea! As for the EC code being open-sourced, the answer is sadly not possible.
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Re: Thinkpad T700 i7-10710 private project

#40 Post by atagunov » Sun Aug 09, 2020 3:08 pm

lulujyc wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 11:55 am
... As for the EC code being open-sourced, the answer is sadly not possible
To be nit-picky "open-sourcing" to me means "to provide sources covered by one of the common open-source licenses". In case of these boards just providing the sources with the machines, without a license would already be useful.

I guess my main point though is to invite all participants of the project to keep putting pressure on the makers - keep making it known to them that yes, we users and potential users want them. If you guys don't ask they won't know we need them. If there is a central figure who was behind original 51nb boards and now is getting boards made outside of 51nb - known under the name HOPE - great, make sure he knows. If you personally didn't tell him yet that its a very much desirable property of his current and future designs please do make it known to him.

For me now this is one of the factors deciding me getting/not getting on board. I guess I'm not alone in the western hemisphere. The benefits to users would be tangible. We'd be able to tailor the way batteries are treated for example. Make sure ultrabay battery will be discharged only to 10%, etc.
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Re: Thinkpad T700 i7-10710 private project

#41 Post by lulujyc » Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:35 am

atagunov wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 3:08 pm
lulujyc wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 11:55 am
... As for the EC code being open-sourced, the answer is sadly not possible
To be nit-picky "open-sourcing" to me means "to provide sources covered by one of the common open-source licenses". In case of these boards just providing the sources with the machines, without a license would already be useful.

I guess my main point though is to invite all participants of the project to keep putting pressure on the makers - keep making it known to them that yes, we users and potential users want them. If you guys don't ask they won't know we need them. If there is a central figure who was behind original 51nb boards and now is getting boards made outside of 51nb - known under the name HOPE - great, make sure he knows. If you personally didn't tell him yet that its a very much desirable property of his current and future designs please do make it known to him.

For me now this is one of the factors deciding me getting/not getting on board. I guess I'm not alone in the western hemisphere. The benefits to users would be tangible. We'd be able to tailor the way batteries are treated for example. Make sure ultrabay battery will be discharged only to 10%, etc.
I'm not sure if any components of the board's BIOS used infectious licenses like the GPL. If not, I guess that the BIOS had a lot of proprietary codes from AMI that they'll get punished for sharing them with buyers. As long as they kept it legal (say, I'll try my best to get it open-sourced if they used GPL codes as a buyer), I respect their decision to keep the code themselves. BTW, I'm pretty much very certain that ultrabay won't be supported as that's Lenovo proprietary design lol.
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Re: Thinkpad T700 i7-10710 private project

#42 Post by atagunov » Mon Aug 10, 2020 6:31 am

lulujyc wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:35 am
I'm not sure if any components of the board's BIOS..
Actually I was talking specifically about firmware for EC, the embedded controller
lulujyc wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:35 am
BTW, I'm pretty much very certain that ultrabay won't be supported as that's Lenovo proprietary design lol.
So custom T60 boards don't have that internal connector for a 2nd battery?
Indeed, this appears correct for 51nb T70 boards

Hmm.. okay.. guess it makes both their motherboard and EC firmware simpler
A bit sad but there you have it

To be honest I find it a little hard to believe the reason is legal here though
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Re: Thinkpad T700 i7-10710 private project

#43 Post by lulujyc » Mon Aug 10, 2020 7:04 am

atagunov wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 6:31 am
lulujyc wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:35 am
I'm not sure if any components of the board's BIOS..
Actually I was talking specifically about firmware for EC, the embedded controller
lulujyc wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:35 am
BTW, I'm pretty much very certain that ultrabay won't be supported as that's Lenovo proprietary design lol.
So custom T60 boards don't have that internal connector for a 2nd battery?
Indeed, this appears correct for 51nb T70 boards

Hmm.. okay.. guess it makes both their motherboard and EC firmware simpler
A bit sad but there you have it

To be honest I find it a little hard to believe the reason is legal here though
If not for lawful reasons, again I'm sorry but I respect their decisions as they told me they're not able (or at least they don't want) to do that :( As for the ultrabay 2nd battery, I had a T70 before and I'm very certain that it's not supported from the test batch to the 3rd last batch.
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Re: Thinkpad T700 i7-10710 private project

#44 Post by lulujyc » Mon Aug 10, 2020 7:32 am

Quick update:
The CPU for T700 will be upgraded to 11th gen 1165G7 (4c8t but better graphics) if most buyers agree. An extra 200 RMB will be charged for the upgrade. Dual M.2 sockets will be kept if upgraded to 11th gen. Another TB3 (or TB4 as how Intel calls them) slot might be provided in the modem place.
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Re: Thinkpad T700 i7-10710 private project

#45 Post by mjg59 » Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:35 am

atagunov wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 6:31 am
To be honest I find it a little hard to believe the reason is legal here though
The EC firmware is usually written by a third party vendor and licensed to the system vendor. That license permits some degree of modification to meet the platform's needs, but it usually doesn't permit distribution of the source code.

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Re: Thinkpad T700 i7-10710 private project

#46 Post by lulujyc » Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:18 am

Updated 11th Gen T700 Project Description:

ThinkPad T700 i7-1165G7 Private Project
1. Platform: Newest Intel 11th Gen Platform, Processor is 1165G7. Specs:
Intel 11th Gen i7-1165G7 (ES Version, 4c8t, 320K+5M+12M)
Memory Slot Maximum 64GB 3200Mhz
Thunderbolt 4 x2 (Support USB, Display and Charge)
USB 3.0 x2, USB 2.0 x2
VGA x1
LAN x1
M.2 x2 (Supports NVMe Only, 2280)
WIFI port x1 (Mini PCIe)
2.5inch SATA x1
Optics Drive SATA
Supports Original Screen Assembly, No Upgrade Required

2. Quantity: 100 in total.

3. Price: 4700 RMB (Incl. Optics Drive daughterboard 14inch->15inch, doesn't include fan); 4999 RMB (Daughterboard, fan, port baffle, mylar film)

4. Warranty: 1-month free warranty, lifelong friendly repair assistance

5. Delivery: Around 6 months after the project started

6. Payment method: Alipay account bobo168169@126.com (ad: I've reserved 5 boards and feel free to PM me for buying one)

7. Board will be designed by HOPE and his factory. Domestic payments will be handled by 17m19. The project is not relevant to 51nb officials.

PLEASE beware that All T700 boards are now 1165G7 only. No more 10710U T700 boards will be built. Previous buyers need to pay an additional 200RMB fee for the upgrade or ask for a refund.
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Re: Thinkpad T700 i7-10710 private project

#47 Post by atagunov » Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:02 am

mjg59 wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:35 am
The EC firmware is usually written by a third party vendor and licensed to the system vendor. That license permits some degree of modification to meet the platform's needs, but it usually doesn't permit distribution of the source code.
I wonder if it is this formal and complicated for 51nb-style exploits though :) The legality of the whole endeavour is periodically challenged by Lenovo. I would find it easier to believe it's more a matter of friendly agreement between collaborating individuals than carefully crafted legally-binding papers. 100 boards. Would that ever pay for a lawyer?

The price is tempting, they could have swayed me if they gave me EC sources and a way to reflash the EC. Even if they give them without any explicitly stated license
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Re: Thinkpad T700 i7-10710 private project

#48 Post by fatpolomanjr » Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:20 pm

lulujyc wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:18 am
Updated 11th Gen T700 Project Description:

7. Board will be designed by HOPE and his factory.
This gives me much more confidence and I'm now considering buying. Aside from lack of fan control and outdated performance from i7-5500u and i7-7700HQ (this one is still ok tbh), I'm quite content with both my X62 batch two and T70. Will the BIOS/EC support 2 or 3 different fan modes like the X210 or X2100?
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Re: Thinkpad T700 i7-10710 private project

#49 Post by lulujyc » Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:31 am

fatpolomanjr wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:20 pm
lulujyc wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:18 am
Updated 11th Gen T700 Project Description:

7. Board will be designed by HOPE and his factory.
This gives me much more confidence and I'm now considering buying. Aside from lack of fan control and outdated performance from i7-5500u and i7-7700HQ (this one is still ok tbh), I'm quite content with both my X62 batch two and T70. Will the BIOS/EC support 2 or 3 different fan modes like the X210 or X2100?
Sorry, I can only tell you this after the boards are out. This depends on the chipsets and the EC they used.
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Re: Thinkpad T700 i7-10710 private project

#50 Post by fatpolomanjr » Thu Aug 13, 2020 1:38 am

lulujyc wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:31 am
Sorry, I can only tell you this after the boards are out. This depends on the chipsets and the EC they used.
I'm still interested. I really like supporting HOPE in making these, but it seems this generation Intel is a bit of a dud due to disabled undervolting and lack of advancement in process node. I also don't truly need the better performance increase over the T70 i7-7700HQ. On the other hand it would be so nice to have in order to keep this awesome T601f going strong into the 2020's. I'll have to think about it, but I'm leaning towards holding off and embracing the current gen of AMD 4000 Thinkpad.
Last edited by fatpolomanjr on Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thinkpad T700 i7-10710 private project

#51 Post by lulujyc » Thu Aug 13, 2020 5:15 am

fatpolomanjr wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 1:38 am
lulujyc wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:31 am
Sorry, I can only tell you this after the boards are out. This depends on the chipsets and the EC they used.
I'm still interested. I really like supporting HOPE in making these, but it seems this generation Intel is a bit of a dud due to disabled undervolting and lack of advancement in process node. I also don't truly need the better performance from the T70 i7-7700HQ. On the other hand it would be so nice to have in order to keep this awesome T601f going strong into the 2020's. I'll have to think about it, but I'm leaning towards holding off and embracing the current gen of AMD 4000 Thinkpad.
11th gen i7 offers a great advantage in providing several thunderbolt 4 ports. Aside from that I personally suggest you to buy an AMD 4000 series notebook as they have better performance in CPU and iGPU. However I bet you'll miss the T60 keyboard and ergonomics design :)
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Re: Thinkpad T700 i7-10710 private project

#52 Post by TPFanatic » Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:09 am

Did any of the ThinkVantage software ever work on the third-party boards or were substitutes developed, like Hotkey Features for Fn key combos and Power Manager for plan switching and charge thresholds?
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Re: Thinkpad T700 i7-10710 private project

#53 Post by lulujyc » Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:39 am

TPFanatic wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:09 am
Did any of the ThinkVantage software ever work on the third-party boards or were substitutes developed, like Hotkey Features for Fn key combos and Power Manager for plan switching and charge thresholds?
if i remembered correctly fn+f3 f4 and the media control keys work. Thinkvantage softwares don't work.
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Re: Thinkpad T700 i7-10710 private project

#54 Post by fatpolomanjr » Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:22 am

TPFanatic wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:09 am
Did any of the ThinkVantage software ever work on the third-party boards or were substitutes developed, like Hotkey Features for Fn key combos and Power Manager for plan switching and charge thresholds?
X62: Fn+F4 give sleep, brightness functions and Thinklight work, but no power manager, windows lock, ultranav, etc. buttons work.
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Re: Thinkpad T700 i7-10710 private project

#55 Post by Kingair » Sat Aug 15, 2020 10:02 pm

I ordererd 2 T700 motherboards
But dont hesitate too long since we're getting closer to #100
If interested just shoot me a message and let's get you one !

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Re: Thinkpad T700 i7-10710 private project

#56 Post by lulujyc » Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:23 am

Update:

The new 11th gen platform design is verifying now and will be done next week. PCB layout design will start after that
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Re: Thinkpad T700 i7-10710 private project

#57 Post by zoltan87 » Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:42 pm

lulujyc wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:23 am
Update:

The new 11th gen platform design is verifying now and will be done next week. PCB layout design will start after that
Will the 11th gen Intel processors be undervoltable? I have read it at multiple places, that you can't do it on 10th gen, because of some vulnerability Intel has disabled it. It would be a major bummer not to be able to do that, as it can significantly lower temperatures.

Also any idea how the cooling solution will work? What rpm levels will be defined for certain fan levels, and will we be able to change fan speed depending on user defined temperature thresholds (with tpfancontrol or with any other program)? I have only heard bad things on how the cooling worked on previous 51nb projects.

I would be tempted to invest in one of these new boards, but if I would end up with a machine that has temperature problems, combined with a constantly on fan that's audible, I will rather just pass. It would be a downgrade to my virtually silent T60 and T601 (both undervolted and have modified lower rpm table for fan speeds, also changed the ridiculous factory fan levels on given temperatures).

I could live with many shortcomings, as I understand this is a very small team effort, so the sort of maturity that Lenovo or any other multi-billion dollar companies provide can't be expected from 51nb (or from this private project), but an annoyingly loud system is a deal breaker for me.
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Re: Thinkpad T700 i7-10710 private project

#58 Post by lulujyc » Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:58 am

zoltan87 wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:42 pm
lulujyc wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:23 am
Update:

The new 11th gen platform design is verifying now and will be done next week. PCB layout design will start after that
Will the 11th gen Intel processors be undervoltable? I have read it at multiple places, that you can't do it on 10th gen, because of some vulnerability Intel has disabled it. It would be a major bummer not to be able to do that, as it can significantly lower temperatures.

Also any idea how the cooling solution will work? What rpm levels will be defined for certain fan levels, and will we be able to change fan speed depending on user defined temperature thresholds (with tpfancontrol or with any other program)? I have only heard bad things on how the cooling worked on previous 51nb projects.

I would be tempted to invest in one of these new boards, but if I would end up with a machine that has temperature problems, combined with a constantly on fan that's audible, I will rather just pass. It would be a downgrade to my virtually silent T60 and T601 (both undervolted and have modified lower rpm table for fan speeds, also changed the ridiculous factory fan levels on given temperatures).

I could live with many shortcomings, as I understand this is a very small team effort, so the sort of maturity that Lenovo or any other multi-billion dollar companies provide can't be expected from 51nb (or from this private project), but an annoyingly loud system is a deal breaker for me.
Hi,
I'm unsure of whether the processors will be undervoltable so sorry for that.
The cooling solution will be a modified fan unit from 17m19. Tpfc will not work on 51nb boards.
As for the X62 they had a program under Windows for users to control the fan, but it's pretty buggy. You might want to take a look at the EC once the BIOS's available.
X61HK (8250u, SXGA, 16+512+1t, macOS)
T4200s (10510u, 1080p, 16+256+1t, macOS)

lulujyc
Freshman Member
Posts: 66
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:08 am
Location: Beijing, CN

Re: Thinkpad T700 i7-10710 private project

#59 Post by lulujyc » Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:21 am

9/24 Update:
First step board design is done. Now HOPE and his factory are verifying the design.
There're several additional changes to the board, including:
1. Added a new EDP port under the original screen port. 30pin. A custom screen cable is required.
2. USB design changed to 1x USB3.0 + 2x Thunderbolt 4.
Image
X61HK (8250u, SXGA, 16+512+1t, macOS)
T4200s (10510u, 1080p, 16+256+1t, macOS)

H-Atkinson
Freshman Member
Posts: 122
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:27 pm
Location: Glendale, CA

Re: Thinkpad T700 i7-10710 private project

#60 Post by H-Atkinson » Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:09 pm

How many boards are still available? Im still on the fence.

Also, can you confirm that the Thunderbolt 4 ports support PCI Express? If so, how many lanes?
T43p, T61p, T601p, T601 (dead), T601, T60p (Prototype), X230, P53, T480 (In the process of rebuilding)

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