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Looking for a devil's advocate: why SHOULDN'T I move to Linux completely ?

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decaba
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Re: Looking for a devil's advocate: why SHOULDN'T I move to Linux completely ?

#61 Post by decaba » Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:45 pm

So I'm using W7 to read about the Linux CLI. A bit of irony, wouldn't you say?
That is ironic! It reminds me, too, that I need to run Adobe Digital Editions in a Windows VM in order to get/read some ebooks with DRM. I also use the VM for iTunes so I can get songs on and off my iPhone without going through contortions. Also, I run the Windows-only Topofusion through Wine. I really like the host distro I'm using, and I'm fine with this setup, but when I re-read the OP's original question, it's pretty clear that I *haven't* moved to Linux completely.

ajkula66
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Re: Looking for a devil's advocate: why SHOULDN'T I move to Linux completely ?

#62 Post by ajkula66 » Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:33 pm

decaba wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:45 pm
So I'm using W7 to read about the Linux CLI. A bit of irony, wouldn't you say?
That is ironic! It reminds me, too, that I need to run Adobe Digital Editions in a Windows VM in order to get/read some ebooks with DRM. I also use the VM for iTunes so I can get songs on and off my iPhone without going through contortions. Also, I run the Windows-only Topofusion through Wine. I really like the host distro I'm using, and I'm fine with this setup, but when I re-read the OP's original question, it's pretty clear that I *haven't* moved to Linux completely.
There's no denying that most people - even fairly advanced users which are not a rare sight on this forum - have been holding onto Windows for dear life, myself included. I'm also all-well-aware that in many (most?) corporate surroundings, there really is no alternative to MS' products. How we got to that point is a matter of a different discussion altogether, and that's not one that I'm intent on unleashing in this thread.

Running stuff in VMs or using Wine is not applicable for everyone's needs. I count myself lucky that *my* needs have gotten to be quite modest and can be - at least for the most part (say 90% or so) - met in Linux environment.
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

Cheers,

George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)

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skx
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Re: Looking for a devil's advocate: why SHOULDN'T I move to Linux completely ?

#63 Post by skx » Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:07 am

don't know but I am 200% windows independent and never used it since 2008. you don't need windows at all, people still going back and forth between windows and linux are maybe advanced windows users, but not advanced at all in the linux environment. the mandatory change needed is in your head, like the change you need to quit smoking. in professional environment of course I have to use it but I don't do any private stuff on corporate pc's at all.

in the rare occasions I have to install windows like to sell and old PC/laptop (seems to sell better when people see windows on it) it remembers me why I never used windows since 2008. biggest pain in the *** to hunt for all drivers when Linux like Debian installs all in a heartbeat ;)
ThinkPad X220: i5-2520M CPU 2.5GHz - 8GB RAM 1333 MHz - SSD 860 EVO 250GB - Debian - ME_cleaned
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Re: Looking for a devil's advocate: why SHOULDN'T I move to Linux completely ?

#64 Post by ajkula66 » Sun Sep 02, 2018 10:14 am

skx wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:07 am
don't know but I am 200% windows independent and never used it since 2008. you don't need windows at all, people still going back and forth between windows and linux are maybe advanced windows users, but not advanced at all in the linux environment.
Fair enough.
the mandatory change needed is in your head, like the change you need to quit smoking.
Oh my I certainly hope that the change to Linux ends up being a much easier process...otherwise I'm stuck with Windows, just like I am with cigarettes... :mrgreen:
in professional environment of course I have to use it but I don't do any private stuff on corporate pc's at all.
That pretty much goes without saying, same here.
in the rare occasions I have to install windows like to sell and old PC/laptop (seems to sell better when people see windows on it) it remembers me why I never used windows since 2008. biggest pain in the *** to hunt for all drivers when Linux like Debian installs all in a heartbeat ;)
Yeah, any PC sells better with Windows installed, no question about that.
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

Cheers,

George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)

FlexView AARP club members:A31p, T43pSF, X60T

Abused daily: X200s, X201s


PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.

TonyJZX
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Re: Looking for a devil's advocate: why SHOULDN'T I move to Linux completely ?

#65 Post by TonyJZX » Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:08 am

It depends on how reliant you are on the windows ecosystem etc. - I did run Linux... or Mint... on a machine that would not reliably run Windows however I remoted into Windows Servers etc. so I wasnt 100% on Linux per se.

I feel like its almost un-necessary to move completely to Linux especially here where we all have multiple laptops... I feel like we've moved beyond a stage where we need to dual boot.

I dont feel like it should be a religious issue where you convert to Microsoft or Linux. If you run Linux for a while and then dont like it, move back to Windows.

You should all have spare machines etc.

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Re: Looking for a devil's advocate: why SHOULDN'T I move to Linux completely ?

#66 Post by skx » Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:47 pm

I don't know, if you really start using Linux as a power user, being forced to deal with a windows PC feels like being waterboarded by the Trump administration ;) I am now at the stage windows feels like pure mental torture. I avoid it 100% in my private life and try to cope with it in my professional life!
ThinkPad X220: i5-2520M CPU 2.5GHz - 8GB RAM 1333 MHz - SSD 860 EVO 250GB - Debian - ME_cleaned
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Dekks
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Re: Looking for a devil's advocate: why SHOULDN'T I move to Linux completely ?

#67 Post by Dekks » Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:29 am

skx wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:47 pm
I don't know, if you really start using Linux as a power user, being forced to deal with a windows PC feels like being waterboarded by the Trump administration ;) I am now at the stage windows feels like pure mental torture. I avoid it 100% in my private life and try to cope with it in my professional life!
I've never felt that, it's just another OS.
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Rs125
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Re: Looking for a devil's advocate: why SHOULDN'T I move to Linux completely ?

#68 Post by Rs125 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:50 pm

I like Linux, because everything works with out fiddling with it. No hunting for model exclusive drivers. Updating is very simple and fast. I don't know how many times I have booted a Windows computer with Linux live USB to troubleshoot problems.

That being said I have a hard time cutting the cord. Windows is like a nice big heavy blanket on a cold night, all cozy on the couch watching TV. Yeah sometimes that thing generates some static electricity and shocks the hell out of you, but you still use it

Maybe if I didn't have to use Windows at work it would make it easier, that and I haven't tried itunes on Linux yet, if that is even possible. :eek:
We got some rules to follow,
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Re: Looking for a devil's advocate: why SHOULDN'T I move to Linux completely ?

#69 Post by farmall » Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:45 pm

I see no reason to "switch" when I can have it all at zero cost. It's trivially easy to use VMs. My Linux hosts have Windows guests and Windows hosts have Linux guests. If I only ran one or the other I'd still use VMs to have different OS versions and test applications before loading to bare metal. I take clean snapshots of each guest so I can revert if useful.

Much Windows software doesn't run on Linux, especially industry standard CAD applications. No problem. I open a VM on one monitor and use the other for the host OS.

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Re: Looking for a devil's advocate: why SHOULDN'T I move to Linux completely ?

#70 Post by TRS-80 » Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:55 pm

@ajkula66,

I read this whole thread with great interest. I wondered how you were getting on with your GNU/Linux journey?

You will not get devil's advocate from me, in fact I am here to present the opposite case. :D Although it sounds as if you have mostly made up your mind already, there are a couple things I would like to touch on that have not been covered by others yet. And also for the benefit of other lurkers following along at home who may be considering a similar path of action.

I followed a very similar path as yourself. I stayed on Windows 7 long after Win 10 had come out. Finally I had enough, started dual booting, and eventually made the leap fully. Now a few years on, every box in our home runs some flavor of GNU/Linux (including routers, set top boxes, PCs, laptops, phones & tablets (Android), etc.). And when everything on your network is running Free/Libre Open Source Software (F/LOSS) and open (non-proprietary) protocols... it's amazing how well everything "just works" together, and how easy it all is to administer.

I don't think Linux is "harder" to use than Windows, certainly not nowadays. One can get started very easily with a regular Desktop Environment GUI, just like in Windows. There are many to choose from (in fact almost a bewildering array). But it's when you go to start doing more "power user" type things that the differences really start to become apparent. Under the hood, GNU/Linux is more like a box of Legos, Erector Set, or what have you... It's like a box of parts with which you can build darn near whatever you can conceive... This is part of the so-called Unix Philosophy, as explained in this excellent vintage video:

AT&T Archives: The UNIX Operating System (YouTube video)

There is a beauty inherent in the design of the whole system, the deeper you delve into it the more you come to appreciate it (at least I did). At this point I am automating all sorts of things using text processing tools, bash and Python scripts, for example automatically downloading all my bank transactions and categorizing them, etc.

But, you do have to become "sick of" Windows enough to motivate you to depart from the familiar. It sounds like you are there. In fact, the joke in Linux circles nowadays is that Win 8/10 were the best things ever to happen to Linux. lol So, you and I are definitely not alone.

There is one other very important factor that I needed to get my head around however before fully grokking what all the hubbub was about, and that is understanding the philosophy that drove the creation of the Free Software movement in the first place:

What is Free Software and why is it so important for society?

And furthermore, Why "Open Source" misses the point of Free Software.

In my view, until I got my head around those ideas, I was still subject to making the same feature by feature comparisons that some others in this thread are making. But now I realize it's not about that, at all. Linux may not always compare favorably to Windows on every single feature. And then in other cases (like ZFS file system and many others) you, as a mere mortal, can get your hands on enterprise quality software, for free (as in freedom and as in price)!

But these questions are much bigger than just desktop and laptop computers. I have eventually come to form the very strong opinion, that in an age where everything (including your car, appliances, medical devices, etc.) is some kind of hardware, with some kind of software in it, the questions that Richard Stallman began asking ("who does this device really serve?") are much wider ranging and more important to all of society than simply "does this run faster or better than Windows." And I'm not sure how many people have really stopped to ask themselves those sort of questions.

Free Software is just a completely different paradigm. One where what THE USERS want is put first (and not some corporation, Intel, Microsoft, Google, the NSA or other government agencies, etc.). This is why for example, you can still find the traditional desktop metaphor widely represented in Linux (they are not trying to turn everything into a tablet OS. like Win 8/10). And also why the software and operating system itself are not trying to monetize / spy on you, etc... And how refreshing is that for a change, especially nowadays?
All good things are Wild and Free.

I used to have a bunch of R/T4/5's employed in my business.

Nowadays (2019) I am still on the lookout for for T/X60's with Intel graphics (or chassis, displays, parts) to make Libreboot machines out of. PM me if you are willing to part with anything.

ajkula66
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Re: Looking for a devil's advocate: why SHOULDN'T I move to Linux completely ?

#71 Post by ajkula66 » Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:22 pm

TRS-80 wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:55 pm
@ajkula66,

I read this whole thread with great interest. I wondered how you were getting on with your GNU/Linux journey?
I've been on Linux 95% of the time for several months now and am generally pleased with the results.

Having said that, I did notice a "slowdown" on my Debian install, which can be attributed to several different things. I'm about to start swapping the systems around and will report back once I have a "new" main machine in place.

But at the end of the day, if one is to choose between W8.x/10 and one of the "friendlier" Linux flavours (Ubuntu/Mint, Debian, Fedora...) the choice is clear, at least for me.
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

Cheers,

George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)

FlexView AARP club members:A31p, T43pSF, X60T

Abused daily: X200s, X201s


PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.

skx
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Re: Looking for a devil's advocate: why SHOULDN'T I move to Linux completely ?

#72 Post by skx » Sun Apr 07, 2019 5:16 am

TRS-80 wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:55 pm
I read this whole thread with great interest. I wondered how you were getting on with your GNU/Linux journey?
quality post full of linux love :mrgreen: just wondering now, which distros you settled with after probably having gone through an extensive distro hopping time? 8)
ThinkPad X220: i5-2520M CPU 2.5GHz - 8GB RAM 1333 MHz - SSD 860 EVO 250GB - Debian - ME_cleaned
ThinkPad X230: i5-3320M CPU 3.3GHz - 8GB RAM 1600 MHz - SSD 860 EVO 500GB - Debian - ME_cleaned

ajkula66
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Re: Looking for a devil's advocate: why SHOULDN'T I move to Linux completely ?

#73 Post by ajkula66 » Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:44 am

skx wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 5:16 am

quality post full of linux love :mrgreen: just wondering now, which distros you settled with after probably having gone through an extensive distro hopping time? 8)
A fork of Debian developed in my old neck of the woods. Quite pleased with it, which doesn't mean that I'm not looking into other options for my older systems that can't run a 64-bit OS. Haven't had the time to explore these options lately, though.
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

Cheers,

George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)

FlexView AARP club members:A31p, T43pSF, X60T

Abused daily: X200s, X201s


PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.

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