Thinkpads Forum

Hello.
I recently obtained a X61s, but sadly it comes with the wrist rest heater (3945ABG) wireless interface card.
I am going to flash Middletons', so 1802 won't be a problem.
I need a NIC that works with linux-libre, and is cooler/less power hungry than the 3945. That means, the praised 52/5300 won't work. Preferably, it should allow package injection as well.

1. How do I know if I have the 2- or 3 antennae version?
2. Is there a half-sized NIC that works with libre firmware?

Thanks in advance

I dont familiar with libre linux, but this is interesting project;) My linux is not so clean...

If you want to decrease heat generation you should use intel 6200 - 6300 series, but they not so clean?

If you want clean distro - you probably can search Atheros cards.
Let's see this http://wireless.kernel.org/en/users/Dri ... ts/laptops - laptops using atheros "ath9k" cards. And yes T6x | X6x series can be equiped with atheros cards (which called ThinkPad11 wireless in HMM). But thes are wery old. I don't how a they in terms of heat generation.
With flashing Middleton's BIOS you can use any miniPCIe WiFi card you find on market (intel | atheros). So dig internet for information obout realy free wifi cards and search it on ebay or local market.

I don't know how many antennas in your thinkpad. Mine X61 and X61t all have 3. The best you can do - open keyboard (4 screws) and count wires for WLAN.

If an Intel 6200-N or 6300 works you might give one of those NIC a try. They are half-height cards so I am hoping that the reduced size might contribute to reduced heat! Going to install one in my nephews x61s (already flashed with the Middleton BIOS) when I visit my parents and sis next week. I will also most likely end up doing tech work for the family when I get back as well. Oh joy!

FryPpy wrote: I don't know how many antennas in your thinkpad. Mine X61 and X61t all have 3. The best you can do - open keyboard (4 screws) and count wires for WLAN.

I decided to open it up and have a look. Just removing the keyboard didn't give me a proper look, because I didn't see the right (black) antenna. Turns out I have 2. http://a.pomf.se/lrquob.jpg Warning, large image
Sidenote, why don't I have the right slot? I saw another x61s on here that had some video acceleration card in there. Was it only on the WWAN models?

emeraldgirl08 wrote:If an Intel 6200-N or 6300 works you might give one of those NIC a try. They are half-height cards so I am hoping that the reduced size might contribute to reduced heat! Going to install one in my nephews x61s (already flashed with the Middleton BIOS) when I visit my parents and sis next week. I will also most likely end up doing tech work for the family when I get back as well. Oh joy!

They sadly won't work. It looks like I'm going for the ATHEROS AR9285 AR5B95. It runs on the ath9k kernel driver, which is free, and doesn't require additional firmware to be loaded. It's also pretty cheap (5£ from ebay) which is a huge plus. That gives me more money to get a non-cracked top part and a new hdd slot cover, which the previous owner cracked.

I have installed and used both 6200N and 6300N in X61s, even though mine only has 2 antenna wires.
Both are half size and need a half size bracket.
They run very cool compared to 3945 and 4965.
No problems with Middleton BIOS under XP or W7.

oniichan wrote: Sidenote, why don't I have the right slot? I saw another x61s on here that had some video acceleration card in there. Was it only on the WWAN models?

Yes - this slot is designed for WWAN, but can be used any thing. But is broadcom crystal HD really free (in terms of libre linux)?

oniichan wrote: They sadly won't work. It looks like I'm going for the ATHEROS AR9285 AR5B95. It runs on the ath9k kernel driver, which is free, and doesn't require additional firmware to be loaded. It's also pretty cheap (5£ from ebay) which is a huge plus. That gives me more money to get a non-cracked top part and a new hdd slot cover, which the previous owner cracked.

Thank you for point me to the right direction. My ac router (netgear D6200) is going to me (shipping). And i have already planned upgrade to ac adapter (intel 7260). But today i find that world of ac is more "populated" than i knows before. You can try ath10k (qualcom atheros chipset made) adaptors. But they are not so cheap. To me they are useless - because the have no windows drivers. Yes Linux made windows Realtek in development. Broadcom is a real competitor to intel in ac market.

PS
Today i still use XP. And that hardware manufacturers (i dont know any ac modules which can work on XP or Vista) pushing me to newer OS

FryPpy wrote:

oniichan wrote: Sidenote, why don't I have the right slot? I saw another x61s on here that had some video acceleration card in there. Was it only on the WWAN models?

Yes - this slot is designed for WWAN, but can be used any thing. But is broadcom crystal HD really free (in terms of libre linux)?

I'm not thinking of installing it, I was just wondering a little why mine didn't have it. I take it the original buyer didn't see the need for WWAN. Soldering a slot in place seems way too hard.

FryPry wrote:

oniichan wrote: They sadly won't work. It looks like I'm going for the ATHEROS AR9285 AR5B95. It runs on the ath9k kernel driver, which is free, and doesn't require additional firmware to be loaded. It's also pretty cheap (5£ from ebay) which is a huge plus. That gives me more money to get a non-cracked top part and a new hdd slot cover, which the previous owner cracked.

Thank you for point me to the right direction. My ac router (netgear D6200) is going to me (shipping). And i have already planned upgrade to ac adapter (intel 7260). But today i find that world of ac is more "populated" than i knows before. You can try ath10k (qualcom atheros chipset made) adaptors. But they are not so cheap. To me they are useless - because the have no windows drivers. Yes Linux made windows Realtek in development. Broadcom is a real competitor to intel in ac market.

I don't have the need for AC, and it seems more expensive and power hungry than its worth, at least for this laptop. I only have a n-router, and I've never encountered an ac capable one.

RealBlackStuff wrote:I have installed and used both 6200N and 6300N in X61s, even though mine only has 2 antenna wires.
Both are half size and need a half size bracket.
They run very cool compared to 3945 and 4965.
No problems with Middleton BIOS under XP or W7.

Sadly they require nonfree firmware to be usable - which means that they spy on me. I can't tolerate that.

This might be offtopic, but does anyone know of a way to flash Middletons' without an optical drive? USB? Network?

If you make a bootable USB stick, you can do M's BIOS from USB.

RealBlackStuff wrote:If you make a bootable USB stick, you can do M's BIOS from USB.

Hi.
If you could find any directions regarding this, I'd be very grateful. I tried searching but didn't find anything.
Do I make a DOS bootable USB and add the tools onto that?

Try these:
http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/BIOS_Upgrade

http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/BIOS_Upgrade/X_Series


Also, I have a question:

You said the reason you want to avoid proprietary firmware is that they could be malicious. Do you hold the same skepticism towards hardware and their built-in code (like the BIOS image)? After all, hardware can be malicious too, and they are even more difficult to analyze than proprietary firmware binary blobs.

As an actual example, Intel AMT and CompuTrace are both software actually built into many ThinkPads' BIOS images that are capable of hijacking the host machine under command. As a thought exercise, how do you know the wireless card you bought off eBay hasn't been modified to contain a malicious ROM image?

twistero wrote:Try these:
http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/BIOS_Upgrade

http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/BIOS_Upgrade/X_Series

Thank you.

twistero wrote: Also, I have a question:

You said the reason you want to avoid proprietary firmware is that they could be malicious. Do you hold the same skepticism towards hardware and their built-in code (like the BIOS image)? After all, hardware can be malicious too, and they are even more difficult to analyze than proprietary firmware binary blobs.

As an actual example, Intel AMT and CompuTrace are both software actually built into many ThinkPads' BIOS images that are capable of hijacking the host machine under command. As a thought exercise, how do you know the wireless card you bought off eBay hasn't been modified to contain a malicious ROM image?

Yes, I'm as skeptical towards hardware. However, there is nothing I, as an end user, can do about this. Making a choice to buy a supposedly libre NIC is a much easier thing to do than to reverse engineer the BIOS myself and have a good look. All computer BIOSes are probably backdoored - apart from the core/libreboot ones, which sadly aren't available for this platform (yet?). I think that trusting hardware is a bit easier than trusting software, implementing a software backdoor in kernelspace is easier than implenenting a keylogger on BIOS level that automagically send data to the manufacturer. That doesn't mean that no one does it though.
So, why do I care when I'm "anyways backdoored"? Well, in this case, I'm just a part of the BIOS manufacturers botnet, be it IBM, Lenovo or Middleton. Maybe Intel has a part in this - I'm not sure whether they supply blobs to the BIOS packer, or the actual source. Guessing the former. I try to keep the count as low as possible. Having Broadcom or someone else spy on me as well would make the situation twice as bad. You see where I'm going with this?

oniichan wrote: Yes, I'm as skeptical towards hardware. However, there is nothing I, as an end user, can do about this.

Not quite right. But you have X61s and coreboot team have advantages with X60x. This thing can completely replace BIOS and Video BIOS can be replaced too.
The last not free pice of hardware is EC. AMT can be very unfriendly, but not all thinkpads have AMT.

Wait a second. You're saying that the X60-core/libreboot works with the X61s?

oniichan wrote:Wait a second. You're saying that the X60-core/libreboot works with the X61s?

No unfortunately They have done good work with X60 model. You can dig the coreboot site for more info (if they have any advantages with modern X61, but i don't know any):

Reporting back today. I got the NIC and the bracket, flashed Middletons', no problems, installed NIC and it all works wonderfully. Wrist rest doesn't get uncomfortably hot, and I have good signal whatever I connect to in my home.