Thinkpads Forum

I just got a R50 from ebay.

It is a fixer upper, I am waiting for HD cage and WIFI card. The laptop POSTs, and will boot a Haiku Alpha 1 CD with the CDRW-DVD. I can get online with ethernet under Haiku.

But if I try to boot Lubuntu 14.04 (force PAE) or Mint Debian (non-PAE kernel), it stalls part way. Does a live session need a HDD present? I have 1.5GB RAM. Below is the screenshot for Puppy Linux LxPup 13.10 and the one for Lubuntu 14.04 using force PAE.

Do I just need to wait to have the Hard Drive installed to not get an error? Just want to confirm that the laptop is otherwise fine.

Puppy Linux: http://oi57.tinypic.com/2e4xocx.jpg

Lubuntu: http://oi57.tinypic.com/2dv64w2.jpg I typed the top headers of the kernel panic and the bottom ones, skipped the middle. The Caps Lock light was blinking green when I got this kernel panic.

No, no HDD needed to boot a live CD.
Force PAE won't work with the Pentium M CPU. You need an older kernel than comes with Ubuntu 14.04. IIRC, the 12.04 release will work.

Neil wrote:No, no HDD needed to boot a live CD.
Force PAE won't work with the Pentium M CPU. You need an older kernel than comes with Ubuntu 14.04. IIRC, the 12.04 release will work.

--Could it be a bad CD or CD drive then? Why would I have a problem when I tried to boot Puppy Linux Lx13.10. It is the same Puppy Linux I was using on the Thinkpad X40, which has a Pentium M 1.2 GHz.

The back-up battery seems to be ok since it keeps correct time when unplugged. So it can't be that, though the main battery needs to be replaced. I guess I just have to wait for my WIFI card and HDD cage to arrive so that I can install a non-PAE Linux on it.

If you get some sort of stalling/hanging problem mid-way through an OS install and it doesn't seem to be related to an issue with bad media, bad optical drive or CPU capabilities, then I'd pull the MiniPCI card out of the system and see if that makes any difference. Typically I see this when installing XP onto a hard drive but I suppose that Linux could run into the same problem when it tries to detect/configure the modem and/or wireless card.

My R50p works fine and is running XP but gets similar kernel error and Caps lock blink when booting Puppy 4.3.1. Never did figure out why. Same problem with T42 also.

I've bumped into similar issues on a variety of ThinkPads, which is why I have about two dozen "live" CDs/DVDs lying around...

Try Peppermint. I've gotten that one to boot on almost anything post-2000.

Obviously, YMMV.

rkawakami wrote:If you get some sort of stalling/hanging problem mid-way through an OS install and it doesn't seem to be related to an issue with bad media, bad optical drive or CPU capabilities, then I'd pull the MiniPCI card out of the system and see if that makes any difference. Typically I see this when installing XP onto a hard drive but I suppose that Linux could run into the same problem when it tries to detect/configure the modem and/or wireless card.

--Currently don't have the PCI WIFI card installed. WIFI card & HDD cage don't arrive until Dec. 4th. Ethernet card works in Haiku, both the stable Alpha and a nightly I grabbed. I did borrow a USB WIFI card from my roomate, but I can't get to a desktop to see if it is recognized. Its a generic ebay USB w/ Realtek chip.

ch27 wrote:My R50p works fine and is running XP but gets similar kernel error and Caps lock blink when booting Puppy 4.3.1. Never did figure out why. Same problem with T42 also.

--Tried a couple of Warys, Slackos, etc. I have gone through the whole pound Several will boot to desktop but I don't get mouse / trackpoint control. Both are enabled in BIOS. BTW, I just noticed my BIOS is at 3.02f, the original BIOS. So I guess I will have to install Windows XP to update the BIOS. I intend to install elementary OS (ubuntu server 12.04 + repositories method) as my main OS once everything works.

ajkula66 wrote:I've bumped into similar issues on a variety of ThinkPads, which is why I have about two dozen "live" CDs/DVDs lying around...

Try Peppermint. I've gotten that one to boot on almost anything post-2000.

Obviously, YMMV.

---And of course I had thrown out my old non-PAE CDs I had because I thought I was going to have my R61 with a C2D for a while. Little did I know it crapped out and I am back fighting with PAE. Any particular version of Peppermint? Since its Ubuntu based, isn't the newest one non-PAE?

natgab wrote: Any particular version of Peppermint? Since its Ubuntu based, isn't the newest one non-PAE?

The newest one might be off-limits, but 4.0 should be OK.

natgab wrote:--Tried a couple of Warys, Slackos, etc. I have gone through the whole pound Several will boot to desktop but I don't get mouse / trackpoint control.

Well...that doesn't seem to be a PAE issue at all. Could it be that this R50 is acting up because of a failing Southbridge BGA? Or, maybe a bad keyboard. Don't suppose you have a spare keyboard you could try.

Neil wrote:

natgab wrote:--Tried a couple of Warys, Slackos, etc. I have gone through the whole pound Several will boot to desktop but I don't get mouse / trackpoint control.

Well...that doesn't seem to be a PAE issue at all. Could it be that this R50 is acting up because of a failing Southbridge BGA? Or, maybe a bad keyboard. Don't suppose you have a spare keyboard you could try.

^^^^^^

I completely missed on the trackpoint aspect of the story. Apologies.

Neil's advice is on the money, as usual.

Neil wrote:

natgab wrote:--Tried a couple of Warys, Slackos, etc. I have gone through the whole pound Several will boot to desktop but I don't get mouse / trackpoint control.

Well...that doesn't seem to be a PAE issue at all. Could it be that this R50 is acting up because of a failing Southbridge BGA? Or, maybe a bad keyboard. Don't suppose you have a spare keyboard you could try.

--Is there any way to test the Southbrige to see if it is damaged? I am typing this message using the R50 running the Haiku CD and wired ethernet. Keyboard seems to work fine. Even on the Puppy Linux that did not work, I could reboot and modify the boot process and choose run in RAM and identify the keyboard in text before the splash screen.

Just hope it works once I have the HDD and WIFI installed. I will first try Windows XP, so that I can update the BIOS. Hopefully that can fix some of the weirdness.

natgab wrote:--Is there any way to test the Southbrige to see if it is damaged?

PC Doctor used to be offered on these older systems. It contained several diagnostic tests to verify major subsections of the laptop. However, it's not being distributed by Lenovo any more as their license/contract with PC Doctor expired several years ago.

natgab wrote:I will first try Windows XP, so that I can update the BIOS

Is it your intention to run the BIOS update under Windows? If so, I'd strongly recommend that you do the BIOS update using DOS (i.e., the floppy/diskette option). I understand that while doing a BIOS update from within Windows generally works right, there are times that something goes wrong and screws up your machine. This is mainly for systems "newer" than your R50 but I'd opt for the safer way (DOS) when possible.

If you can't boot a CD, it could be your CD reader is not compatible with the dye used. AFAIK, factory pressed CD's don't present this problem.

Regarding the TrackPoint, the kernel is likely the issue. Look on www.thinkwiki.org for possibly more info.

rkawakami wrote:

natgab wrote:--Is there any way to test the Southbrige to see if it is damaged?

PC Doctor used to be offered on these older systems. It contained several diagnostic tests to verify major subsections of the laptop. However, it's not being distributed by Lenovo any more as their license/contract with PC Doctor expired several years ago.

--I downloaded Hiren's CD & Falcon's 4BootCD to see if they help with diagnostics. I did get the HDD cage already, Win XP formatted the HDD, and reboots to finish install but as soon as the last part starts I get the same blue screen about NTFS.sys. I am hoping I can use the Hiren's CD to completely wipe and format the HDD. Still no luck booting Linux CD even with the HDD installed. My old Ubuntu 9.04 disc stalls when you get the Ubuntu logo just before the desktop.

EDIT: I ran the Faclon's CD both as a CD & USB (Unnetbootin) and I get a DOS start screen, chose Hiren's DOS tools, tried a partitioning program. Both loaded but then froze before they could start. It also had a mini XP with windows programs, it froze while loading. All worked fine on my Intel Mac.

natgab wrote:I will first try Windows XP, so that I can update the BIOS

Is it your intention to run the BIOS update under Windows? If so, I'd strongly recommend that you do the BIOS update using DOS (i.e., the floppy/diskette option). I understand that while doing a BIOS update from within Windows generally works right, there are times that something goes wrong and screws up your machine. This is mainly for systems "newer" than your R50 but I'd opt for the safer way (DOS) when possible.[/quote]

--How do you use the DOS updates without floppies?

@natgab: Have you verified that the memory is 100% functional? If not, I'd run something like memtest86+ on it for a couple of hours.

As to running the BIOS update, I've always used either an Ultrabay floppy or external one (via floppy port or USB). I believe there is some way of transferring the files onto a flash drive but I've never needed to do that.

Also, you have a PM from me that's been sitting in my Outbox for the last day.

rkawakami wrote:@natgab: Have you verified that the memory is 100% functional? If not, I'd run something like memtest86+ on it for a couple of hours.

As to running the BIOS update, I've always used either an Ultrabay floppy or external one (via floppy port or USB). I believe there is some way of transferring the files onto a flash drive but I've never needed to do that.

Also, you have a PM from me that's been sitting in my Outbox for the last day.

--Thanks, got the PM. I was just reading this thread about an R52: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=114067, and you suggested testing to see if the RAM / MB where good. I think I will try first to see if I get the beeps. Since I am having trouble getting the repair CDs to work. What is weird is that the Haiku live CD gives me a working desktop but Windows and Linux are getting stuck.

Edit: I tested the RAM / MB, per your instructions in the link above. I got he 1-3-3-1 code with the laptop and no RAM or peripherals. I then tested both sticks separately and neither caused the laptop to beep. I don't think their is anything wrong with my HDD, it was working when I pulled it from the donor.

natgab wrote:I then tested both sticks separately and neither caused the laptop to beep. I don't think their is anything wrong with my HDD, it was working when I pulled it from the donor.

That's not really a test of the RAM or the HDD.
Ray's suggestion to run Memtest86+ for a couple of hours is the best way. If you have a bad RAM stick, it will usually start showing errors within a few seconds though.

Neil wrote:

natgab wrote:I then tested both sticks separately and neither caused the laptop to beep. I don't think their is anything wrong with my HDD, it was working when I pulled it from the donor.

That's not really a test of the RAM or the HDD.
Ray's suggestion to run Memtest86+ for a couple of hours is the best way. If you have a bad RAM stick, it will usually start showing errors within a few seconds though.

--OK, I thought the RAM/ MB beeps would provide same info. I found the Memtest site, burned an ISO and ran the test. No errors found, which for me is worse news as I can't figure out why my laptop keeps freezing up on Windows and Linuxes(sp?). Bad RAM would have been an easy fix.

Tested laptop with plain Debian ( I had tried Mint Debian), tried once and froze at about the same install step with the same kernel panic as in my original post. Rebooted and tried again, install with text installer and it gave me a red error screen with message " failure at unpacking libmount1 ". I rebooted, the install process starts ok, I type my info, it starts downloading drivers and then ends up freezing at the step above.

I will try and find another hard drive in case the one I used happened to die right when I moved it to the R50. I was able to run one of the hardware test CDs, nothing showed up as bad. Though I did get an ECC error when it was testing the hard drive. The CPU, GPU, networking seemed to pass the test. I ran the test a second time and it finished all the way through with no error in the HDD section. Windows XP Home still blue screened after first reboot of the install process.

I got the PCI WIFI card today, and the Thinkpad is working now!!

I did the following steps that resulted in it working:

1) I plugged in the WIFI card and the antenna wires.
2) Unplugged the CMOS battery and left it unplugged for about 5 minutes.
3) Reversed the RAM sticks.

The laptop had the 1GB stick under the keyboard and the 512MB in the outside user servicable slot. Since I was going to sell it (since I had not gotten it to work) I reversed them to leave the 1GB RAM outside for quicker removal so that I could keep it for my next machine.

So after the three steps, I tried installing Debian again. Worked almost perfect, the trackpoint froze when I was going to choose my log in. Rebooted with a USB MS Mouse, I was able to log in. Installed trackpoint / pad driver, flash and Radeon drivers. The trackpoint driver is still a little wonky, if Iunplug the USB mouse trackpoint / pad freeze again.

Once I have this working properly, I will try again with a 100GB HDD, currently the laptop only has a 20GB HDD.

Screenshot below:
http://oi58.tinypic.com/spal45.jpg

Still sounds like a flaky motherboard to me. Could still be the Southbridge, since it's the input/output controller hub for the entire system. Plus, the chip is located right next to the mini-PCI slot, so installing a wifi card could have altered the it's contact points enough to make things seem to work a little better.

Neil wrote:Still sounds like a flaky motherboard to me. Could still be the Southbridge, since it's the input/output controller hub for the entire system. Plus, the chip is located right next to the mini-PCI slot, so installing a wifi card could have altered the it's contact points enough to make things seem to work a little better.

--Any symptoms to watch out for or do I just hope for the best and get a few more years out of it? Going to install the bigger HDD that I thought was bad, hopefully it will work to like the small HDD.

From all that I've read so far, I agree with Neil, it's 99.9999% chance that it's a bad Southbridge.
You will not get more years, maybe a few months if you are lucky...
Get another, guaranteed working, mobo from T40/T41/T41/R50/R51 (not from T43/R52, they require different CPU and RAM).
Here's a list of T4x/R5x motherboards: http://theboardroom.info/ibm_list.htm

This is more of an experiment than a fix, but something you could try is to stuff some material of some kind under the wifi card in order to put some pressure on the Southbride chip. Sometimes that extra pressure will allow the cracked solder joints to make good enough contact for the chip to function correctly. At least until something causes the joints to shift again and loose contact.

RealBlackStuff wrote:From all that I've read so far, I agree with Neil, it's 99.9999% chance that it's a bad Southbridge.
You will not get more years, maybe a few months if you are lucky...
Get another, guaranteed working, mobo from T40/T41/T41/R50/R51 (not from T43/R52, they require different CPU and RAM).
Here's a list of T4x/R5x motherboards: http://theboardroom.info/ibm_list.htm

--I am going to replace the entire laptop. Both of you seem to be correct in suspecting a bad Southbridge. It started acting flaky again after only a few hours of having a working desktop.

I installed Debian Stable on my larger HDD (also from a working screenless laptop), but had to reinstall after adding software. On second reinstall it gave me errors of finding a previous Linux installation. I did a lot of distro hopping using my old X41 and never had trouble with writing one distro over another. Both HDDs were pulled from working laptops, and I used the Seagate HD tools recommended by rkawakami for the larger HDD when I installed it in place of the 20GB.

Then I tried to install Windows XP, to wipe away the old Linux install, but I got the same old blue screen. Two different Windows XP discs. Not going to lose anymore time on the R50.