Which version of Linux to install?

[MisterB]

I spent some time on my Mint 17.2 install on my X201T. Nothing really to worry about. I had already added a few security enhancements like GUFW and Firejail and it is obvious at this time that the repositories were not touched by the hack. I don't think the Mint team would have the ability to cover anything like that up even if they intended to which hasn't been their style at all.

So, I have no intention of removing Mint from anything I've installed it on or worrying about the security. In looking at the security of the distro, I find it weak and even sloppy in places but not atrociously bad. Where it is lacking, it can easily be enhanced. It is still much better than any version of Windows I can think of.

[tarvoke]

Everything you read is an Opinion.
I love conspiracy theories, but critical thinking and logic are required.

Re: Linux Mint
The who, what, and where of this event is hotly disputed. Many writers/posters say things that conflict with the others.
It is difficult to weed thru it all and come up with your own personal theory that rings true.

Options:
Read what is posted here, accept a theory that feels right, adopt it and move on... don't read further.
Do your own web searches and decide what you think the real facts are.

So, on to My Personal Opinion... I believe that the following is true:
1. the recent spoofed Linux Mint downloads with the back door were only Direct Downloads. ISO downloads that used Torrents during the same time frame were not effected
2. the Mint Forums were invaded and your email address, username, and password was harvested.
3. the repositories were Not effected at all

This is a Win Win for all of us!
We are all thinking about passwords, user security, program integrity, reliable sources, etc.
That is Great! Fewer people will be the easy prey for the bad guys.

----
I do suggest that your search includes the Mint website (http://www.linuxmint.com/),
Mint Forums (https://forums.linuxmint.com/),
Mint community Ideas (https://community.linuxmint.com/idea/welcome),
and the two threads on the subject in the Mint Blog (http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=2994 and http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=3001).
(Mint Blog is difficult to read, scan down in the comments for posts by Clam and use your browser's Find function and look for "Edit by Clem" ... Clem is the head guy at Linux Mint)

https://haveibeenpwned.com/
http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/linu ... nsion.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvfD5rnkTws
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_malware

all that said, I am a long time Linux user, I have tried many distributions but have settled on LMDE Mate for my personal and office computers. I am Biased, just like all of the rest.

this really creeps me out, because
a. I'm only hearing about it now, sort of randomly thru TPF (bad for timing, but sort of good since I never used the Mint forums?)
2. I downloaded cinnamon 64 on 2/24, which is still a little close to the mark.

I used that to install on the X2001 from emeraldgirl and have been using said-Frankie in my office - reading this thread only just now, immediately tried to ssh and shutdown, just in case, but then luckily he's already sleep/suspend - forgot I had closed the lid before leaving for the weekend.

also luckily I still have the .iso I used to burn a USB, and the md5sum matches what Clem posted. *whew!*

but you're right, we all have our personal theories - IMHO it's not outside possibility that the responses and checksums from Clem could still be suspect.

I do feel reasonably confident that the Mint repos are still safe, given the apparent nature of this hack.

(((but - my work is in forensic security, so I definitely have an unreasonable level of paranoia in general.)))

suggestions for anyone using any sort of flavor of lunix:
- install rkhunter. and make sure to update it. and make sure /etc/aliases ships mail to your actual email. and do a propupd immediately every time you do any sort of system update.
- install chkrootkit
- install fail2ban (yeah ok this won't really help vs. backdoors, but it is still just good practice)

somebody mentioned firejail - that sounds pretty interesting, basically like a linux analogue to sandboxie. for a long time now I've switched to chromium, which runs in its own sandbox, so no need for 3rd-party stuff - but e.g. if you're using Firefox or Thunderbird.

[MisterB]

Firejail can do a lot more than the chromium sandbox. Like a lot of software, it can be used simply in a default configuration but it has extensive options if you take the trouble to study it a bit.

It is also very light. It is only around a 300kb download for the base file and less than 100k more for the Firetools GUI widget.

When looking at security, I alway judge the security needs by what I'm actually doing with the laptop. With the Mint install on my X201T, I'm not doing anything that requires a lot of security, mostly light browsing and some media playing. I might not be so casual about it if I was doing banking and finances with it or administering a website.

[kony]

I just tried KDE5 in the new Kubuntu today. It seems okay. An awesome thing is that they finally made a decent dark theme. On the other hand, the default flat look is not to my taste. I don't like the look of modern Windows, nor I want it in my KDE. Fortunately, it's just optional, and one can simply switch to Oxygen with just a few clicks. As always with new KDEs, it is full of bugs, which I encountered even during the limited time I have used it. I'm not surprised though, as KDE4 became bugless to me only after my final update (4.12 to 4.14, in 4.12 i had graphical bug with pager). Hence, it will take a long time until KDE5 is as polished and stable as version 4, so I will stick to 4 for the coming years. KDE always had a rather weird development cycle combined with inclusion in distributions, where the new BETAs are almost always prefered to a stable version. I'm not sure why, but it certainly doesn't give KDE a good name. Which is a shame, really, because otherwise it's a really great environment. KDE becomes perfect only at the end of it's lifecycle, yet everybody is switching to the new and rough version to be the first to apply the "new and awesome" (many users wanting this though, and then complaining some stuff is bugged). KDE has quite a terrible release planning, which puts off new users as they are subjected to the new and unfinished version, but oh well, it's devs' choice. I'll be staying with 4 at least until 5 is finished (and 6 is in the works). There is no reason for me to use the new KDE5, and I prefer polished and stable over testing release.

[cynicx]

Been using Ubuntu Gnome 17.4 for a couple weeks now. Couple bugs vs LTS however overall works well. I would probably recommend 17.4 and definitely recommend the LTS version (16.4?).

I really liked Mint however I had trouble getting 1080p external display resolutions (even with arandr) and odd things with outputting 5.1 (pass thru) which made me switch. Plus, while the Cinnamon desktop was pretty nice it was too much like windows. However its support base (Mint) was great.

I know it will be supported for a very long time I didn't want to get too used to Unity in vanilla Ubuntu. Seems like I'd be setting myself up for disappointment when the day came that I would need to move away from it.

[Hans Gruber]

I still use Mint. I think I have an older version 17.1
I like Linux.

[sdi-p]

I still use Mint. I think I have an older version 17.1
I like Linux.

For security I much prefer Debian or LMDE or SolydM
my new daily driver is SolydX with Mate desktop.

Linux Mint gave me problems, after years of LMDE we got a bad update that is still not fixed .... Migration is a chore, but such is life

[xetapad45]

I presently run Xubuntu 14.04 on my ThinkPad T 510. I like this distro so far and have experience with Linux Mint 17.2 in MATE.

I also run Linux on my ThinkPad T510. But it's the Ubuntu 16.04 LTS and I've been really pleased with it. But since both 14.04 and 16.04 are LTS versions I guess either can do since their support has not yet ended.

[KentT]

I am presently running ZorinOS 12.1 on my T 410. Hope to be adding a T 420 to the fleet within the next year (the prices are getting to my level for used beaters)

[sdi-p]

I used LMDE Mate until the first of May when updates Borked it bad.
Now using SolydX with Mate desktop, Debian Stretch based.
Very responsive, no problems, nice features but not bloated.

[axur-delmeria]

On Thinkpads that aren't the newer models I use Debian simply because I've been using it for 10 years or so.

On bleeding edge hardware (which I don't have) I'll probably try Arch, though it might be too much for beginners.

[sdi-p]

On Thinkpads that aren't the newer models I use Debian simply because I've been using it for 10 years or so.

On bleeding edge hardware (which I don't have) I'll probably try Arch, though it might be too much for beginners.

the main problem most people have with Arch is installing it. Feliz is a great installer that gets you over the hump.
https://sourceforge.net/projects/feliz/

[ajkula66]

To re-vamp this thread...

Anything new and interesting under the Linux sun? I haven't been following the latest developments and am pretty much still a Cent OS guy.

Something new worth testing out? Educate me...pretty please...

[rumbero]

Something new worth testing out? Educate me...pretty please...

Not really sure if this is up your alley, but i am currently in the last stages of finishing a new release of my pet project: http://wmlive.sourceforge.net

[ajkula66]

Not really sure if this is up your alley, but i am currently in the last stages of finishing a new release of my pet project: http://wmlive.sourceforge.net

One way to find out... ...I'll let you know by this weekend how it runs on old hardware that I'm using...

[sdi-p]

Something new worth testing out? Educate me...pretty please...

Not really sure if this is up your alley, but i am currently in the last stages of finishing a new release of my pet project: http://wmlive.sourceforge.net

Looks very interesting. I will probably try it soon.
(don't forget to update your Distro Watch listing)

[rumbero]

Looks very interesting. I will probably try it soon.
(don't forget to update your Distro Watch listing)

Please be patient still and wait for the upcoming new version 0.95.7-4.
There are many little enhancements (UEFI support, expert installer mode, etc.) that make it worth the wait.

[sdi-p]

Looks very interesting. I will probably try it soon.
(don't forget to update your Distro Watch listing)

Please be patient still and wait for the upcoming new version 0.95.7-4.
There are many little enhancements (UEFI support, expert installer mode, etc.) that make it worth the wait.

OK, I will wait until I hear back from you here.

I did not read your page thoroughly... am I correct that you are now based on Jessie?
Do you plan to make another build based on Stretch?

---
PS: I am slowly moving all of my computers to Debian 9 Mate using the non-free ISO
torrents are here> https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unof ... bt-hybrid/
direct download from here> https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unof ... so-hybrid/
I find it fast and lean, and not a huge project to install and tweak to my liking.

[rumbero]

One way to find out... ...I'll let you know by this weekend how it runs on old hardware that I'm using...

Don't waste any time with version 0.95.7-3 anymore and allow a few more days for uploading version 0.95.7-4.
It will be worth the wait.

[rumbero]

I did not read your page thoroughly... am I correct that you are now based on Jessie?
Do you plan to make another build based on Stretch?

Yes, 0.95.7-4 is still based on Jessie, still featuring kernel 3.16.43 supporting older processor generations than the additional included kernel 4.9.30 does. See https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-a ... 00001.html for details about dropped CPU support in Debian/Stretch.

Actually i planned to make this most mature wmlive 0.95.7-4 being a "good bye and thanks for all the fish" release.

During the more than 6 years of working on the project, with less than 100$US in donations by three persons, user support has left me rather disillusioned.

If after publishing this last Jessie based wmlive release donation support is not changing into something worth to keep investing all this time and effort, i doubt that i can afford working on a Stretch based version.

Not all is lost though, maybe this release can serve as a wake up call to make people actually do financially support free software.

[ajkula66]

Don't waste any time with version 0.95.7-3 anymore

Too late the hero... ...I've already burned an ISO and had my R61 running the "live" version for a couple of hours.

and allow a few more days for uploading version 0.95.7-4.
It will be worth the wait.

It's going to take me a while to wrap my head around your approach, but I find it very, VERY interesting so far.

Actually i planned to make this most mature wmlive 0.95.7-4 being a "good bye and thanks for all the fish" release.

During the more than 6 years of working on the project, with less than 100$US in donations by three persons, user support has left me rather disillusioned.

If after publishing this last Jessie based wmlive release donation support is not changing into something worth to keep investing all this time and effort, i doubt that i can afford working on a Stretch based version.

Not all is lost though, maybe this release can serve as a wake up call to make people actually do financially support free software.

Ugh. My hat's off to you. In more ways than just one. Seriously.

[rumbero]

Just finished uploading the new Window Maker Live release 0.95.7-4.

Fetch it while it is still hot: sourceforge.net/projects/wmlive/files/wmlive_0.95.7-4/

A proper official release announcement will follow once i find some time for it.

[rumbero]

It's going to take me a while to wrap my head around your approach, but I find it very, VERY interesting so far.

I assume that "your approach" mainly refers to the rather non-standard GUI which is not following the established desktop paradigms.

There is a minimal XFCE4 desktop included which you can choose to start up in the login manager instead of Window Maker. Nonetheless, this is not as well integrated into the system and would still require some more adaptions and fine tuning.

What comes to my mind is that instead of searching for the most suitable Linux distribution covering one's personal requirements, why not build one that actually does?

How about building a Thinkpad centric Linux distribution that does the right thing right from the start?

My little project might show the way: wmlive is already streamlined to work out of the box on T6[0,1] Thinkpads according to my personal requirements.

What i basically did was nothing more (nor less) than to use the Debian live-build utilities and tune them as much as possible to adapt it to my own requirements. The same strategy is also applied by lots of other little custom made Linux distributions (e.g., docs.kali.org/development/live-build-a-custom-kali-iso).

Instead of reinventing the wheel, why not just take advantage of what is already readily available and proven?

I don't see how this couldn't be done for something much more Thinkpad centric by someone who would be willing to invest the required time and effort.

[sdi-p]

Just finished uploading the new Window Maker Live release 0.95.7-4.

Fetch it while it is still hot: sourceforge.net/projects/wmlive/files/wmlive_0.95.7-4/

A proper official release announcement will follow once i find some time for it.

I appreciate your ambition.

I am not sure I understand what your project/distro actually is.
questions:
Is it solely to present a new Desktop Environment that you have built an installer for?
Why are you working with Jessie?
Jessie (Debian 8 ) will be still supported for a while, wouldn't it be better to build on the current Stable release (Stretch aka Debian 9)?

===
personal comments:
for me, I prefer Stretch Mate desktop, with the "extras" and codecs as a base. It works great on my T61's... each one has a different purpose and on each I install Different set of applications.

Best Wishes for your endeavors

[pjc123]

Really a personal preference what to install.

At a minimum I have the following on all my laptops and desktops, on a separate drive from Windows:

1) Centos (Because I had to know this or RedHat at every company I worked for)

2) Linux Mint (For the latest and greatest)

In addition, for fixing other peoples computers or working on my own I have two USB sticks, one Legacy bootable and one UEFI bootable, with all the various Linuxes and programs listed below on each stick (I update versions a couple times a year). The Linux distro I use depends on the age, or features or hardware available on the machine I am working on. I would have added a couple more, but I filled up the 16GB drives!:

VARIOUS LINUXES
lubuntu-16.04.2-desktop-i386
lubuntu-16.04.2-desktop-amd64
linuxmint-18.2-cinnamon-64bit
CentOS-7-x86_64-LiveGNOME-1611
Fedora-Workstation-Live-x86_64-26-1.5
Following are PUPPY Linux's:
wary-5.5
racy-5.5
precise-5.7.1
precise-5.7.1-retro
tahr-6.0.5_PAE
tahr-6.0.5_noPAE
tahr64-6.0.5

DISK IMAGING
clonezilla-live-2.5.2-17-amd64
clonezilla-live-20170626-zesty-amd64
clonezilla-live-2.4.5-20-amd64

DISK PARTITIONING
gparted-live-0.28.1-1-i686
gparted-live-0.28.1-1-amd64

WINDOWS BASED (How did that get in here!)
ubcd537 (Diagnostic)
Hiren’s.BootCD.15.2 (Diagnostic)
winpese-x86-14393_17.01.16 (Windows 10 that runs in RAM)
winpese-x64-14393_17.01.16 (Windows 10 that runs in RAM)

ANTIVIRUS
kav_rescue_10
bitdefender-rescue-cd


DISTROS FOR PC’S IN ORDER OF THE NEWEST TO OLDEST KERNEL (Just some notes I made for myself so I can match it with the hardware age):

Fedora 26 07-11-2017 Kernel 4.11.8
Linux Mint 18.2 Ubuntu 16.04 07-02-2017 Kernel 4.8
Lubuntu Ubuntu 16.04.2 LTS 02-17-2017 Kernel 4.8
tahr 6.0.5 PAE Ubuntu 14.04 LTS 12-16-2015 Kernel 3.14.56
tahr 6.0.5 NON PAE Ubuntu 14.04 LTS 12-16-2015 Kernel 3.14.56
Centos 7 (1611) Kernel 3.10
precise 5.7.1 PAE Ubuntu 12.04 08-03-2013 Kernel 3.9.11 i686
precise 5.7.1 Retro NONPAE Ubuntu 12.04 01-19-2014 Kernel 3.2.48 i486 (<=256 RAM)
racy 5.5 (Newer PC’s, multi-core, NONPAE) 03-02-12013 Kernel 3.0.66
wary 5.5 (Single core PCs) 03-02-2013 Kernel 2.6.32.59

[sdi-p]

nice list, but I have never heard of winpese-x64-14393_17.01.16
where can I download that? google was no help. thanks

[rumbero]

Is it solely to present a new Desktop Environment that you have built an installer for?
Why are you working with Jessie?
Jessie (Debian 8 ) will be still supported for a while, wouldn't it be better to build on the current Stable release (Stretch aka Debian 9)?

The Window Maker window manager is one of the oldest Linux window managers and precedes all current desktop environments.
Some people like me use it since some 20 years and still much prefer it over any other current desktop variant due to its different GUI paradigm.

Integration of Window Maker in all distributions has been rather poor and unattractive. With wmlive this was changed successfully.

Jessie is very mature and stable, and still has a kernel with i586 CPU support, which has been dropped with Stretch.
Stretch still requires a few more minor releases before it can be considered stable enough. Newest is not automatically best.

Porting wmlive to Stretch will require lots of additional unpaid work which i am not willing to do anymore in my free time.
If donation habits of the downloaders don't change, i assume they don't deem it worthy enough to be continued and thus i will just stop it.

Time goes and never comes back, and if it is not converted in either wisdom or money, there simply is no return nor incentive to keep on doing it.

[pjc123]

nice list, but I have never heard of winpese-x64-14393_17.01.16
where can I download that? google was no help. thanks

Google winpese..

Various people built it with various programs added. You can also build your own.

This looks like the one I used

https://toolslib.net/search/projects/?q=KYHI

[sdi-p]

nice list, but I have never heard of winpese-x64-14393_17.01.16
where can I download that? google was no help. thanks

Google winpese..

Various people built it with various programs added. You can also build your own.

This looks like the one I used

https://toolslib.net/search/projects/?q=KYHI

thanks

[sdi-p]

the choices are mind boggling

I prefer Stable kernels (and Stable apps) hence I use Debian Stretch with 4.9.0-3-amd64. It may not support bleeding some edge hardware, but I have not had that event.
Debian Jesse uses 3.16 but it is also Stable.

for imaging and partitioning I use GParted https://gparted.org/
I run it installed locally, but it comes in Live USB/CD versions also.
Most installer ISOs include Gparted.

for backups I prefer LuckyBackup http://luckybackup.sourceforge.net/
I use scheduled backups of various portions of data that I consider most important, together with accumulative sets.
A friend recently said he tried Meld http://meldmerge.org/
He said the Linux version is much faster than the windows version... it is on my todo list to install and try.

BTW: all of the above are in the Debian repositories, so they should be available in the Ubuntu spins also.
--
PS: I forgot fslint http://www.pixelbeat.org/fslint/
it is great for finding and managing/deleting duplicate files... I accumulate a lot of cruft, it helps a lot.