Linux total-newb ready to take very first step

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leoblob · #1 Post by **leoblob** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:55 am

I could probably research this on various message boards, but since the people on this one are so knowledgable...

I want to learn Linux. Right now, just for the fun of learning something new. Maybe someday, I would use it as my regular OS instead of Windows...?? (Eventually, to perhaps run a Microsoft-compatible "office suite.")

I realize Linux requires more from the user, but I have "old school" programming experience and think I could learn. My plan is to run it on a PIII700 desktop with 256 MB RAM (more RAM, if needed, easy to get). I'd like something I can buy in a box with some sort of documentation. I have dial-up, so any significant download is just not practical.

If someone can recommend a distribution for me, or point me to a good place to learn what distribution to get, I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks!

((If this is not the right forum, please move. I realize this is not Thinkpad-related.))

T22 4me · #2 Post by **T22 4me** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 1:06 am

I dont know anything about Linux either;but,will be watching this post with interest.
If you dont mind I would like to add a question here.

Why so many versions of Linux and what are the Differences?

thanks............

teetee · #3 Post by **teetee** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 5:20 pm

Linux itself is only the system kernel and nothing more. However, no one wants a plain vanilla kernel which does nothing but only memory management and task scheduling. Therefore people put in different programs and configuration tools to make linux easier to use by common people like you and me. Since different people have their own preference and unique "taste" when they built their favorite package, that's why there are many different linux distributions like you can see on http://www.linux.org/dist/.

One thing when it comes to learning linux is: No matter which linux distribution that you are going to use, you will surely have to go through a transition and learning peroid before you are good at it. So don't expect you will like linux simply because you get rid of MS Windows. As matter of fact, I wouldn't suggest anyone to start learning using Linux only because he/she wants to say bye bye to MS Windows.

Which distribution is the best for you? Well, since the system core (the Linux Kernel) are all the same (with different versions of course) among all linux distributions. You don't need to worry whether if you can learn the best out of linux by choosing the "correct distribution". Also there is no such thing that you will fail learning this sytem by choosing one distribution over the other. It's only the matter of whether if you like which one better. I've been using Slackware for some time after several years of using RedHat6,7,8,9. But now I am thinking about switching to ubuntu simply because their free CD pack comes with 3 different plateforms(PC, Mac, 64-bit PC). Honestly it doesn't matter at all which one you use as long as it will get the job done within acceptable effort and time. For now I am using Slackware because of its simplicity(which might not be appreciated by people who used to use grahpical user interface tools though).

A piece of advice: Never make the judgement before you really spend some time on it. No one says linux is easy for beginners. It's not easy, especially for Windows users. But it's only fair to say linux is hard to learn AFTER you spend the equivalent amount of time playing on linux comparing to the amount of time you played on Windows.

Sorry for my poor English since I am not a native English speaker. Any grammer or spelling corrections are very much appreciated.

I was interested in the topic "Open Source v.s. Proprietary Software" when I was first introduced linux. Here is a pretty interesting article about this.

teetee

#4 Post by **jdhurst** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 6:00 pm

There are a bizarre number of Linux distributions because no one distribution wins convincingly. I have used RedHat 6, 7, 8 and 9. Of that bunch, RedHat 7.3 was my favourite for a balance of speed and functionality. It is too old to recommend. RedHat 9 is quite slow with a GUI added. I have a SuSE Linux 9 machine that works well, but is quite slow.

I have been running two desktops (sequentially) 24x7 for 6 years with Windows 2000 and Windows XP Pro. During that time, there have been umpteen new Linux distros, and none of them have appealed to me as a highly performing virtual machine that also provides easy installs for a wide breadth of software. The last time I installed Nessus, it had to be compiled to install it. I just prefer easy installs.

I tried once to run Gentoo, but I could not get it to run properly as VMware doesn't support it.
... JD Hurst

#5 Post by **Kyocera** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 6:11 pm

Xandros, very close to windows, and for me (who bought Red Hat 9 a couple of years ago) it was a great way to ease into that whole Linux thing. Just my opinion.

Oh yeah, it runs perfectly on my T30, found my wireless as soon as I booted it the first time.

christopher_wolf · #6 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 6:22 pm

Well, if you want to take a shot at a Linux Distro; Ubuntu or Xandros would be a good place to start. One of the easiest setups I have encountered of all the Linux Distros I have tried. You can also try a LiveCD version of various distros and see if you like it before a permanent install. If you don't feel comfortable with dual booting on the same HDD as Windows XP; you can get a 2nd HDD Adapter for the Ultrabay and boot off of that. I would first do that, after checking out a LiveCD version of the distro you like, before thinking about a Dual Boot on the same HDD as a Windows Install. Ubuntu also has a package manager, where Gentoo has the portage tree...There have also been, and still are, various other package delievery methods. The best known is probably the APT front-end for dpkg on Debian Distros. so far, it has been modified to work with RPM. The old saying goes "A pain to install, but a joy to maintain." In turn, Synaptics is a front-end for APT on Ubuntu; I find it works quite well.

Gord K. · #7 Post by **Gord K.** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 10:55 pm

I, too, have long had an interest in an alternative to MS offerings. I briefly looked at several Linux distributions and spent a fair amount of time with various flavors of Vector Linux (Slackware based but easily installed) that will run on older hardware.

I have more recently changed my focus to BSD - the Berkley Software Distribution. Three main distributions - OpenBSD, FreeBSD, and NetBSD - with a couple of variations, that are Unix. I have installed a 30 GB hard drive into my T21 and have it partitioned to have a 6 GB Windows 2000 partition and the balance is OpenBSD. I can surf the web with dillo or konqueror, I can send and receive emails with sylpheed, I have an MS Office compatible office suite in OpenOffice 1.1.5, and I can access the files on the Windows partition if I need to. My basic computing needs are being met with this operating system. I still want to see if I can get wine working to be able to run a couple of Windows-based pieces of software that I need for work, but I'm happy with my progress to this point.

Just something else to consider.

Gord.

christopher_wolf · #8 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 11:33 pm

BSD is an excellent option as well; I actually have several systems with BSD running and like them quite alot. It depends on what you want to do though, since more experience with Unix is highly recommended if you want to use a flavor of BSD. OS X, however, gives one a really good idea of how powerful something like FreeBSD can get; put a good shell over BSD, or most other Linux and Unix distros, and you get a pretty powerful system with low maintenance.

I think it will be interesting to see how OSX takes to Intel and, perhaps, other computers outside Apples. The benefits are ease-of-use, power, and low-maintenance; Windows has tried to acheive those goals, but has so far not tried one approach but rather a grab-bag of approaches. Windows Update, User based settings, etc...

I found that many of my computing needs can be fulfilled by BSD and Linux. Windows does alot, but sometimes it is nowhere near the ideal solution for a problem; clustered and some types of parallel computing as examples.

leoblob · #9 Post by **leoblob** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 5:10 pm

Wow, some great information!

I really appreciate it.

smugiri · #10 Post by **smugiri** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 6:38 pm

Try out this distribution choosing site.

As always, YMMV.

#11 Post by **carbon_unit** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 7:47 pm

smugiri wrote:Try out this distribution choosing site.

As always, YMMV.

That's funny, it says Xandros is not suitable for laptops yet I run Xandros on my T42 all the time. I must be doing something wrong.

smugiri · #12 Post by **smugiri** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:11 am

Hence the caveat YMMV ....

But seriously, I have no affilication with the site and am not sure what the rules behind the engine are. It suggested Fedora Core for me and while I have used this, I now use SuSE which I think likes Thinkpads alot, is much more user friendly and ....

Oh, wait, I just realized that all this is about one's opinion, right? It is all relative.

benplaut · #13 Post by **benplaut** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 2:24 am

my vote goes to Ubuntu. It's easy to install and configure, but doesn't cripple you when you're ready to move on.

T22 4me · #14 Post by **T22 4me** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 7:55 pm

I am currently trying something called PCLinux OS 9.2I am running it off the CD right now

I am kicking tires and trying it out.Quite Frankly I Like It.It has tons of built in Apps that you gotta buy seperatly with windows.

This is first time online with it.no issues yet.just plug network cable in and go.It also has no video adapter issues.I am currently having those with Windows on my T22.

As a matter of fact I am considering Reformatting T22 and installing this on Hdd.As W2000 Pro runs flawlessly still on Net vista Desktop.That gives me the freedom to Test Drive this on laptop.

What I really Like is I can install this on multiple systems.And it dont look like as much of a learning curve as I was led to believe.

Seems everyone I Know has herd good things about linux"But I dont have time to learn something new" they just dont know what they are missing.but;mark my words"they will"

Im sure the other flavors are good too;but,I will try this one for now.btw Bought it off ebay for 6 or 7 bucks if anyone is interested.......................

#15 Post by **carbon_unit** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 8:08 pm

I tried PClinuxOS 9.2 and I really liked it but the one thing that kept me from using it full time was the lack of WPA support for wireless. It can be done but it requires a lot of fiddling and Xandros works right out of the box. If it had WPA out of the box I would be using it right now.
If you don't need WPA wireless then give it a shot you might like it.

T22 4me · #16 Post by **T22 4me** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 8:54 pm

I wonder about WEP thats what I normally use as its moderate security is enough for my needs.I guess I should hookup my external cd burner and go ahead and install the wireless card before I do the full install of Linux as I am still running it off the Cd.

Will this create an ext 3 partition when I choose to do the install on the hard disk?

smugiri · #17 Post by **smugiri** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:25 pm

T22 4me wrote: I wonder about WEP thats what I normally use as its moderate security is enough for my needs.I guess I should hookup my external cd burner and go ahead and install the wireless card before I do the full install of Linux as I am still running it off the Cd.

This is the one piece of advice that I would give anyone installing Linux in any flavor, newbie or not. If you have some hardware that you would like to use with linux, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, do yourself a favor and hook it up to the machine during the install so that the installer can automatically configure it for you. While it is possible and might even be easy to do it later, you will save yourself so much grief if it is not. I remember trying to get my T40p to recognize my Sony MiniDV camera hooked up on a PCMCIA firewire card, it took about a week of Sundays to get it done. When it tried installing Linux on a new hard disk that I had on the same machine with the camera attached, it just gotten care of as part of the install. Beautifully.

T22 4me · #18 Post by **T22 4me** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:33 pm

Thank you............that could turn out to a very useful pc of info.....

As I intend to use a gps,ext cdburner,digital camera,wireless network card
ect.ect.ect

davymcaleer · #19 Post by **davymcaleer** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:58 pm

I've been running Fedora 4 on a T42p for the last 6 months or so - I was originally trying to see if I could do all my work from Fedora rather than Windows XP - so far I haven't turned back. Just about to get rid of the Windows dual boot altogether - but I'll be using vmwareplayer with an XP image just incase.
Quite a few sites on the net describing any little problems with it - but on the whole it all works grand.

Davy

bl0tt0 · #20 Post by **bl0tt0** » Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:54 am

Well, I would say that if you are really wanting to learn how linux works, and you're not afraid to get your hands a little dirty on the command-line, imo the best choice would be Slackware. The installation process isn't overlaid by a pretty GUI frontend, but the install itself is not terribly difficult, and once you do get it installed, you have one of the most stable and easy to configure distros out there. All of the programs included on the install cds are compiled to run very well on some of the oldest hardware out there, and more importantly, it all runs rock solid. A PIII box with 256 MB of RAM ought to have no problem handling Slackware, which is something that can't be said about all linux distros. It is currently what I have running on my t42p, and I can honestly say that I have learned more about using linux with Slackware than I did trying to run Debian, Gentoo, or SUSE. That's not to say that these aren't good distrobutions in their own right, but I found the programs available on Debian's package manager to be either very old or unstable, the time requirement for getting Gentoo built and installed to be unacceptable, and SUSE to be too slow for me. Granted, this is just my opinion, but I found Slackware to be stable, fast, and easy to maintain. There's a saying that goes, "If you use a certain distro, you'll learn that distro. If you use Slackware, you'll learn Linux." I'm finding that to be very true in my own case.

If you want to look at more distro options out there on your own, you should check out http://www.distrowatch.com. They've got a huge index of the distros available, as well as a short description of each.

djpharoah · #21 Post by **djpharoah** » Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:40 pm

In my opinion if you want to learn how linux works use gentoo. The install from the handbook might look a little intiminating but the gentoo forums are the best for support. ppl from other distros also show up those forums.

if you want to try gentoo however without going thru the hassle of installing, a new project called Kororaa has come out. It is basically a somewhat automated BINARY installer for Gentoo.
www.kororaa.org
www.kororaa.org/forums

It gets your system setup with gentoo, fully working KDE/GNOME/XFCE4, with your video detected, audio/lan,usb automounting etc working.

hope to see you there

-dj

christopher_wolf · #22 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Sat Feb 04, 2006 3:14 pm

I have a machine using Gentoo; it took significantly longer than most other distros to setup, but after that it was fine. Ubuntu is probably the easiest and quickest to setup within a given time frame and you don't sacrifice much of anything in terms of flexibility

After that, the next step would probably be BSD.

T22 4me · #23 Post by **T22 4me** » Sat Feb 04, 2006 4:47 pm

I have PCLOS on my hdd on T22 now.Did the dual boot thing.I did have to copy the cd and use it for install.I tried the bought CD 4 times and everytime in hung copying files on the same file.when I copied the cd it said there wasa a bad sector on the cd so that must have been it.

I was kind of hoping the Linux would repair my w2000 video adapter issues.no such luck...............Linux runs fine though.

Using mozilla firefox for browser.got my messenger working,and email too.havent however got my wireless card working even though it is on the list.I havent given up on that.

Do have a link for some useful info.Saves me from having to post as many dumb questions..........http://linux-newbie.sunsite.dk/.............

I copied this in KWORD and put it in a file on my desktop so I would have quick ref to it when not online.It has helped me a few times already.

this os is also avalable @www.pclinuxos.com as well as support and documentation.Also a link to a site where you can buy it on cd.

If you want LeoBlob I will send you a copy of mine

(I think its legal to do that)

#24 Post by **carbon_unit** » Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:30 pm

I already sent leoblob PCLOS, Ubuntu and a few others. He is checking them out now. I hope he has success with one of them.

T22 4me · #25 Post by **T22 4me** » Sun Feb 05, 2006 1:24 am

OK then;

I was thinking of Trying another install of Linux on my childrens old Compaq AMD6 PC as I am gong to buy them a P3 or P4 netvista in the next week or so.

Even they @ 3&5 appreciate a computer that works more than it dont.

This box has a temp install of XP Pro on it 3 weeks old It just dont have the CPU or Memory to run this.

Thought of trying either Ubuntu or one of the others.thought I would download a few different ones while I was at it and Burn them all to CD.

I will just have to look at the sys requirements when I make my choice as It is also limited on Hdd space.

#26 Post by **carbon_unit** » Sun Feb 05, 2006 7:48 am

If you are going to use linux on a low spec machine you will want to look at non-KDE/Gnome distros. They are lighter and run better on low memory/cpu machines.
Puppy linux is the first one that comes to mind. There are many more.

leoblob · #27 Post by **leoblob** » Sun Feb 05, 2006 1:27 pm

Thanks to all!

I am currently trying to fix a problem on another one of my computers. Once that gets straightened out (or I give up, whichever comes first), I will then take a shot at loading & using Linux on the machine I have ready & waiting for it.

christopher_wolf · #28 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Sun Feb 05, 2006 5:10 pm

You might want to look at this section in the ThinkWiki as well; See

http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/How_to_save_memory

For optimization tips and tricks; IceWM does a pretty good job of it from the get go. HTH

Linux total-newb ready to take very first step

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