MBR & Rescue Partition - T60

[bessel]

I heard that the original MBR which recognises the ThinkVantage key does not know to boot the *active* partition; instead it always boots the first one.

The consequence is that if I want the system bootable to both XP and Linux, Rescue partition intact, and want to use GRUB to manage the booting, I will have to:

1, erase windows
2, install linux, put /boot partition at the beginning, install grub there
3, recover windows from the recovery partition
4, edit grub so that it can boot the xp partition

Isn't it insane? Or is there a better way? Or the MBR can actually know to find the active partition to boot?

Thanks...

MODERATOR EDIT: Moved to the Linux forum to aid in getting the answers to your questions

[xtern0]

Wow. Well, whoever you have been listening to is wrong.

I can't believe nobody replied to this! Most distros will automatically locate your windows partition on install. Good ones will even shrink it for you and automatically allocate the new space. All the Thinkvantage button is is a bootloader that gives you one choice: Boot to the rescue partition.

However, another, old school (as in 1995) method is to defrag your hard drive a few times, then use a paritioning program to partition off the drive you want to load linux on. Then install linux.

Actually, whomever you heard that from has it completely backwards. If you install Windows onto an existing linux installation you're setting yourself up for a heap of problems if you wanted to dual boot.

Maybe things have changed since my dual-boot days, but I doubt it.

[K0LO]

I heard that the original MBR which recognises the ThinkVantage key does not know to boot the *active* partition; instead it always boots the first one.

Actually, you might be right, but I can't confirm this because I no longer have the IBM MBR on my machine.

At the moment I have the Microsoft MBR, which always boots the *Active* partition. So if I set partition 1 (Windows XP) as active, then that's the OS that starts. If I set partition 2 (Linux) as active, then GRUB, which is installed in the boot record of partition 2, controls the boot process. So I just keep 2 as active and let GRUB control everything.

However, you could do the following to avoid relocating the Windows partition. Use the Windows bootloader to control the boot process and leave your partition 1 alone. Install Linux to a new partition and be sure that GRUB is installed to that partition, NOT to the MBR (or you'll destroy the IBM MBR and thus the abilitity to use the ThinkVantage key on boot). Then follow the advice in this Gentoo article to make Windows control the boot process:

http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Dual_Boot_ ... R)_and_why

What I don't fully understand is how the IBM bootloader knows how to find the Recovery Partition, and whether there are any limitations on where it must be located. The preload image has Windows in partition 1 and the recovery partition in partition 2, at the end of the drive. So where to put Linux? Before the recovery partition or after? This I don't know. Anybody?

[xtern0]

I may have misunderstood the original question. Which I took to essentially be this:

Q: One wishes to install a Linux distribution onto a Thinkpad currently running Windows XP while retaining both the existing Windows XP installation and the option to use GRUB in a way that ensures the recovery partition remains bootable in case of emergency.

A: I would venture to guess that the large majority of the lurkers and posters in this particular discussion group have already done just that, and done it successfully. You will need to shrink your existing Windows partition, and create the new Linux partitions on the free space created by the shrinking. If your chosen distro does not automatically add an entry for the rescue partition, you may simply edit your grub configuration menu manually; which is discussed in detail in a number of these threads.

Second Question: "What I don't understand is how the IBM bootloader knows how to find the Recovery Partition, and whether there are any limitations on where it must be located?"

A: Never really considered moving the Rescue partition around. Why bother? But you do raise a reasonable question that someone doing advanced tweaking may have a need for. For example: one centralized recovery share available over a network; thus freeing up 5 gigabytes per machine throughout the organization. I like this idea and will put some thought into it; probably end up just adding a network share as a bootable parition in GRUB.

In conclusion: Why is everyone so gung ho about this little blue button that reads "Thinkvantage"? It really adds nothing to the machine beyond a quick redirection to a vendor installed diagnostic partition. In addition, it uses a ful 5 GB of space! That's friggin' enormous for what it offers. Now what I would love to see is a write up or howto on how to program the Thinkvantage button to do something besides point to the Rescue partition. Maybe turn it into a "That was easy!" button, or have it make fart noises. ;)

On a side note: From observing staff and contractors who have been provided with dual boot capabilties, I have noticed that when given the choice, they will never leave their comfort zone...they will always boot to Windows. In other words, if you are truly commited to learning Linux, then make a commitment to use Linux and only Linux for 3 months. Otherwise, it's quite likely that you will simply continue booting into Windows throught sheer laziness and familiarity. Programmers are the notable exception; free compilers and tools are just too hard to resist.

I have come to a compromise with users that are experienced and trustworthy: I consider the XP installation as a "personal" operating system, the one they can use to do all of their personal stuff when using the laptop at home, in training, etc., while the Linux partition is the "Business" partition, where all work is performed. When at the office, boot to Linux, when at home, boot to Windows.

[K0LO]

In conclusion: Why is everyone so gung ho about this little blue button that reads "Thinkvantage"? It really adds nothing to the machine beyond a quick redirection to a vendor installed diagnostic partition. In addition, it uses a ful 5 GB of space! That's friggin' enormous for what it offers. Now what I would love to see is a write up or howto on how to program the Thinkvantage button to do something besides point to the Rescue partition. Maybe turn it into a "That was easy!" button, or have it make fart noises.

Agreed. I made a copy of the recovery partition with Acronis True Image and put it on a DVD and put it away. I'd rather have the 5 GB and I'd rather not restore to the factory image anyway; the one I developed and personalized is smaller, better, faster.

You can make the blue button do anything you want:
http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Access_IBM_Button
http://www.tabletpcbuzz.com/forum/topic ... C_ID=33891

[tincbtrar]

Just my 2 cents.

I love Linux. So much. I kept my existing rescue partition available by using Acronis Disk Manager. Basically I shrunk my windows partition to 20 Gigs...And setup some other custom partitions (I boot alot of OS's - XP Pro, Rescue and Recovery, Ubuntu Dapper and Suse 10.1). After that was all and said and done - I went into BIOS and made sure the recovery partition was protected...I forget the exact name they have for it. Nothing will be able to erase that partition after you check that setting. Then its all up to manual partitioning when you install your Linux OS. I do not have the Access IBM working at startup, but it doesnt matter because I can still boot the R&R from Grub. But just to be safe make a rescue and recovery disk set. You should have no problems whatsoever (even though I had a bot of trouble with Suse's bootloader...yuck. All fixed now). Hope this helps.

[xtern0]

K0lo:

Thanks for the link! Perfect button to use to launch a root shell....absolutely perfect.

Cheers,

X

[frankausmtank]

[..]but it doesnt matter because I can still boot the R&R from Grub. [..]

May I ask how you managed to achieve that? I also have the RR partition in my grub menu (iirc, Identified as generic win2000/NT partition on hd(0,1)), but when I try to boot it from there, I get a 'grub error 18' (google: " Selected cylinder exceeds maximum supported by BIOS"). The partition mode is set to 'normal' in bios, but changing to 'visible' makes no difference. Have you done have any special settings? Thanks!

[xtern0]

Interesting. To be honest, I haven't even tried, since I was getting ready to remove the R&R completely. I admit I made an assumption; my error, and I will either verify that it can boot, or post a fix to make it boot sometime after August 20th.

I will check on my T60 when I return to the office (at the Grand Canyon on vaca at the moment).

Cheers,

X

[ischg]

This forum rocks. I just ordered my thinkpad and making it dual boot will be the first thing I'll do to it. (And for a reason I can't really explain, I'll keep the RR partition, you never know).

If I get everything correctly, the recommendation is: leave the IBM MBR alone, and fool the windows bootloader into booting the linux OS of my choice. Reason being, that if I want to remove linux, I'll still be able to boot into windows without having to use grub.

But that still means that I can just install grub into the linux partition, make it active and just use grub from there (i.e. use the chainloader to boot into XP whenever I need it). I'll leave the IBM MBR alone, grub knows what to do and I should be fine, right?

[K0LO]

ischg:

Yes, you are correct. You have two basic choices:

1. Use windows bootloader to boot into either windows or GRUB
2. Install GRUB into your Linux partition and set the partition active. Then use GRUB as your master bootloader to start any of your operating systems.

Personally, I prefer #2. GRUB is versatile enough to boot anything. And if anything ever goes wrong you can always use a partition editor to set your Windows partition as active and then you'll automatically boot into Windows.

[xtern0]

OK gents, I've returned; hide your women and lock the doors. ;)

Checked the grub loader. If you follow the guide I put together, you WILL have an option in grub called "Vendor Diagnostic"; this is your R&R boot.

Select "Vendor Diagnostic", hit enter, and you can put your T60 back in the factory condition. That is, it will reinstall Windows XP Home or Professional.

I have tested this.

Sorry it took so long, unfortunately, revenue and expenses must take priority over the volunteer work.

Cheers,

X