Thinkpads Forum

i wanna try out linux in conjunction with windows xp.

which version is the best, and what will i have to do to run the 2 OS's simultaneously?

beeryf wrote:i wanna try out linux in conjunction with windows xp.

which version is the best, and what will i have to do to run the 2 OS's simultaneously?

Which version is the best depends on what you want to do with it.

For first timers, Ubuntu is a good bet; easy to install, easy to use, kinda easy to troubleshoot. Then work your way up from there.

I second Chris's recommendation. Perhaps try the alternate version of Ubuntu called Kubuntu; the layout may be more familiar to Windows users.

For a risk-free trial, download the Live Desktop CD version of Ubuntu or Kubuntu. It will run entirely from the CD without installing anything to your hard drive. If you like it then you can use the same CD to do a permanent installation later.


http://www.ubuntu.com/download
http://www.kubuntu.org/download.php

I am very new to Linux and I have just (with the help of Bill and others on this forum) installed Ubuntu 6.06 onto an old Thinkpad 600x very easily.

Ubuntu 6.06 automatically handled everything that I thought that I that I would find difficult - partitioning for the two operating systems, setting up Grub for a dual Windows/Linux boot, wifi, networking and so on.

The only problems that I had were getting the right iso of Ubuntu, the normal one didn't work for me so I had to use the alternate iso, and making sure that the system was burnt onto the CD properly. The first two burns didn't work and I got a long way into the process before I discovered the fact.

Ubuntu (I'm sure along other distros) allows you to check the CD before starting the install process. I'd strongly recommend using this to save yourself frayed nerves further on.

Ubuntu also fits onto one disk so it is quite easy to handle compared to some of the other distros which need five or more disks.

By the way I installed off a CD-RW without any problems so I didn't have to worry about wasting disks on 'bad' burns.

The worst of the whole thing was worrying about what could go wrong before launching into the installation.

Good luck!

My two bits....

I have heard very good things about Ubuntu, MEPIS, and SUSE. I recommend any of the three. However, the more important question you may want to ask is "What window manager should I choose?"

Since you are new to Linux, here is my advice:

1. To truly learn it, you need to use it. Unless you are very disciplined, I don't recommend a dual boot if your goal is to learn the operating system and window manager. Most new users need to get rid of the Windows crutch and force themselves to use the OpenOffice apps, file managers, Gnucash, and other Linux apps. With a dual boot, you'll likely boot into it a few times, say "Cool, I did it! Time to update my resume." and then you'll never use it again. Also, while you're forcing yourself to use it, make a commitment to make all the hardware function, you will learn exponentially. I recommend a 90 day commitment to the operating system for your work PC (you'll want to keep MS Windows for home use if you are a gamer or a videophile), after that, if you don't like it, go back to MS Windows.

2. If you are comfortable with MS Windows, I recommend KDE as your default window manager. Whole dissertations have been written on KDE vs. Gnome, but when it comes down to it, KDE is easier for the average user famililar with MS Windows. I personally prefer Gnome, but that may be because KDE didn't even exist when I started playing with Linux.

3. Beyond that, any desktop-centric distro is good. What really seems to be differentiating them nowadays are the install programs and the window manager configurations. Of course, what works out of the box is a big factor as well. Package management has become pretty solid across the board, and nearly all of them come with OpenOffice and a graphical web browser.

In a nutshell, for a new user, I recommend any of the following:

MEPIS (a live CD with an option to install, good to play with at first, kind of the 'try before you buy' mentality).
http://www.mepis.org

Ubuntu (haven't used it, but have heard nothing but good things). http://www.ubuntu.com

SUSE (easy to install, looks pretty, and has a solid rep for being stable). Note: I used to hate SuSE back in the day because I associated it with Carolyn Meinel, but I have learned to look past this stigma on SuSE.

http://www.opensuse.org

Fedora (Redhat's been around forever, easy install, good market saturation, etc.).
http://fedora.redhat.com

In conclusion, a dual boot in our modern days of multi-PC households, VMWare, massive RAM, giant hard drives, super processors, and video cards made to track a bullet in real time doesn't make a whole lot of sense in my world unless you need all your system resources for compiling and other resource intensive tasks when your using linux.

Again, this is just a matter of personal taste. I just think you'll use the OS more if you have quick and easy access to VMWare on your desktop then if you have to shut down and restart every time you think about using it. Actually, in all likelyhood, you'll probably use it only a few times if you choose to go the dual-boot route.

Of course, take my opinion with a grain of salt. I was a devoted Redhat/Fedora user till just recently, and am now getting back to playing around with the millions of new distros that have popped up in the last couple of years. I continue to be flabergasted by the improvements in graphics, applications, and stability.

Cheers,

djc

I hear what you're saying about the Tough Love/no Pain No Gain approach to migration....but its a tough path to ask somebody with no experience of Linux and limited time or resources to follow.

Explaining to the family or work mates that you had just trashed the computer trying to put Linux on it would be a tough one. Trying to explain to the three year old that she couldn't play on CBeebies because Daddy had killed the machine would be impossible.

I honestly don't think that I would have taken the risk if I hadn't at least had the chance of getting the maching back to Windows and if I didn't have an old Thinkpad lying around that I could take a risk with.

As it is Ubuntu/Gnome made a dual boot installation a 'breeze' (excuse the pun) and I am constantly amazed how easy it is to share files and printers with Windows machines and basically do exactly what I was doing with a Windows machine....except that there are a hell of a lot more free toys to play with on the Linux machine and a hell of a lot more applications to mess around with.

Linux is just more fun so I'm not sure about the discipline/pain bit being necessary to make the migration.

The only thing I am having a bit of a problem with is getting my iPAQ to talk to Ubuntu but I haven't spent any real time trying.

I have not gone back to a Windows machine since installing Ubuntu and I have not felt the need to boot into Windows on the ThinkPad.

But, as I say, I don't know if I would have made the leap if I didn't have a spare machine and if I couldn't at least kid myself that I could get the machine back to Windows in a worse-case scenario.

That's my beginner's twopennies worth.

Emmett

how about competability with the thinkpad (T43 in my case)
is there a difference between the versions ? is there a known version that supposrt most or all the hardware and one that is more of a problem ?

thanks Danny

emmett wrote: Explaining to the family or work mates that you had just trashed the computer trying to put Linux on it would be a tough one. Trying to explain to the three year old that she couldn't play on CBeebies because Daddy had killed the machine would be impossible.

emmet's point is exactly why I bought a re-furbed T23 with the sole purpose of using as a Linux test-bed. Wipe Windows off the thing and load Ubuntu (or whatever distro you like). No dual-boot drama. No carving up the drive into partitions that you might outgrow. Simple. That way I could try out various distros, climb up the learning curve at my own pace, figure out hardware config/compatibility issues, etc. without risking my work/home machine (iBook G4).

That way, if I screw something up, or am just profoundly unhappy with what I see... Wipe the HDD and start over!

How much more fun can you have than that!

KC

Or you could get a 2nd HDD adapter for the Ultrabay as well.

christopher_wolf wrote:Or you could get a 2nd HDD adapter for the Ultrabay as well.

That's what I did (Windows XP on the Ultrabay drive). I haven't touched Windows XP on that computer for a few months though, so I might reuse that hard drive for something more useful.

Long live Linux!

I hear that if you want to learn things the hard way and the right way, maybe wait it out for Slackware 11.

danny_isr wrote:how about competability with the thinkpad (T43 in my case)
is there a difference between the versions ? is there a known version that supposrt most or all the hardware and one that is more of a problem ?

Danny, from my limited experience most mainstream distros support most hardware so you are very unlikely to run into issues of compatability. If you do run into compatability issues then the simplest thing to do is to switch to another distro. You'll find one that works with the important bits of your hardware pretty quickly.

You may find that some peripherals needs fiddling with to get working, as I found with my iPAQ. But that's the price you pay for free software and it is a valuable learning opportunity.

If you download and run the live cds from the mainstream distros you can see which ones work with your hardware without doing any installation. Ubuntu and PuppyLinux worked very well for me but if you have the time you may want to try the others.

danny_isr wrote:how about competability with the thinkpad (T43 in my case)
is there a difference between the versions ? is there a known version that supposrt most or all the hardware and one that is more of a problem ?

For these sorts of issues it might be usefull to check some of the vast amounts of online info.

Good places to start are:

http://www.linux-laptop.net/
http://www.tuxmobil.org/
http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/ThinkWiki

and of course:

http://www.google.com/linux/

Best of luck,
RDG