Thinkpads Forum

Hi Guys,

I've been considering trying to set my X31 up with dual-boot, and using Linux as my second OS. The problem is, I have next to no experience with Linux and even less patience for command line programming. I'd tried a couple of different distros two years ago on my home PC, but eventually gave up. It was too hard for me to get all the HW working with the SW.

I've looked at some of the online guides made especially for the X31, like these:
http://www.marzocca.net/linux/ubuntux31.html
http://rooster.stanford.edu/~ben/linux/ibm.html
http://www.cs.ucl.ac.uk/staff/s.zachariadis/x31.html
http://www.makarevitch.org/debian/kernel_2.6.html
but they're far too complicated for me. They also seem a bit old, so maybe that's part of the problem.

Are there any Linux distributions out now that work especially well with TPs? Or should I just wait a few years?
Thanks!

John Henry wrote:Hi Guys,

I've been considering trying to set my X31 up with dual-boot, and using Linux as my second OS.

I prefer the Ubuntu Linux distros. Currently, I'm using the "Feisty" version as a dual boot with Vista on my R51 ThinkPad. Ubuntu is more of a finished, smoother operating system and is very good for a first time Linux user.

Try running it as a "live CD" at first to see how your machine likes it (hardware compatability, etc) and then if all goes well, do the hard drive install.

By far, the most trouble-free way to install Linux on a hard drive is to use a -separate- hard drive that you can just slide into your ThinkPad when you want to change operating systems. This eliminates the potential for wrecking things during the dual-boot installation process. (things do happen, ya know...)

I do not have an X31, however I do have a T60 that I bought a year ago. I bought IBM specifically because of their compatibility with Linux. I have used Linux for 6 years and have tried several distros, but I have settled on SUSE. I installed SLED(Suse Enterprise Desktop) without any problems, and in the year since the install I have not had any issues, other than the known issues with the software updater. I will be changing to Open Suse 10.2 in a few days, mainly because Open Suse appears geared more to my uses. However, I have tinkered with PC Linux and I must admit that I am impressed with its simplicity and ease of install. As a suggestion, since you say that you are not very experienced with Linux, I would recommend that you download the PcLinux live cd-you can also install the OS from it if you end up liking it-and try your laptop with it. My T60 worked perfectly with the live cd, even the wireless connection, and I have installed it on an older laptop without any problems. Open Suse also has a live dvd now, but I was not able to get my wireless working from the dvd, however I am sure that an install would go ok. The advantage of trying the PcLinux live cd is that you can verify if everything will work for you before you do an install.

I have used SuSE and now use Ubuntu. I think Ubuntu is easiest for newcomers. Still, things like Java may require command line work, and Linux is fundamentally a command driven system, so be prepared to learn basic commands.

If you are really brand new to Linux, consider installing and running Linux of your choice as a virtual machine within VMware. That allows you to run both operating systems simultaneously and that can be an advantage while learning.
... JDH

I've had both Xandros and SuSE on my (now sold) X31, and liked SuSE better...

What you may want to try, and is IMHO the easiest distro for a newbie to deal with is called PC Linux OS...you can run it from a disk as a "live" distro until you familiarize yourself with it.

A lot of people think the world of Ubuntu/Kubuntu but I've personally had very limited experience with them...

Another distro that I've found interesting and pretty welcoming for a newcomer was Linspire/Freespire, and both of these (almost identical in most important fields) can be run "live" from CD...

Hope this helps.

i would suggest knoppix.
it bootup straight to the desktop, and you don't need to configure anything
it would not touch you hard drive, unless you command so
you can play with it as much as you want, and save your settings on the usb drive
when you will feel like you are ready to roll linux on you laptop permanently it will be much easy, since you are already know what to expect and you will get some understanding of what is going on.

the old rules - pick the distro, that your guru is using.
google and forums most often already have solution for your problem regardless of the distro
i know many ppl using www.gentoo-wiki.com for problem solving in their favorite distros, as an example of step by step manuals

Thinkpads are the best supported laptop lines on Linux. I have often heard of device driver developers use ThinkPads in testing and demos of their work. All the ThinkPads and all the modern distros that I have ever tried I can't recall any major problems that I faced right out of the box. The hardest perhaps is video card setup and thats mostly only if someone tries to install video intensive applications and need the full capabilities offered by the video processor (e.g. Beryl comes to mind).

A good starting point would be Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Fedora, SUSE (or openSUSE) among others.

If you just want to get your hands dirty with Linux then look into VMWare's free version server product and run freely available Linux virtual machines without changing booting on your hard drive. I consider this the safest and perhaps providing the potential for the best Linux experience without having to deal with the slowness of a live CD Linux distro.

Good luck and share your experience with us.

the basic *nix philosophy is, to snap various small
single purpose tools together via pipelines, so as to
achieve various results in data processing. This is
what it's all about. This is command line stuff.

unfortunately, from the original poster's POV, the
command line is enathema: so that he will not be able to
employ the above mentioned facilities.

so why bother? Stick w/ and enjoy the limitations of
M$, or shift to the only GUI *nix of which I'm aware,
that works, from Apple, and enjoy those limitations
instead.

I would definitely check out Ubuntu. It's a great way to get your feet wet because of the LiveCD and the large support community built around the OS. Especially nice is that since 6.10 ACPI has been working on my x2x machines.

tom lightbody wrote: so why bother? Stick w/ and enjoy the limitations of
M$, or shift to the only GUI *nix of which I'm aware,
that works, from Apple, and enjoy those limitations
instead.

I agree. From my perspective, the command line is a marvelously efficient interface, albeit with a significant learning curve. I have little "patience" for opaque interfaces that only let me click "Ok" or "Cancel".

I read a quote somewhere that said "UNIX is user-friendly. It's just very particular about its friends." I don't you'll find linux to your liking.

Wow! Thank you all so much for the great answers.

I think I'll follow MGO's advice and try installing it on a seperate HD, and avoid any potential problems with the boot utility. And it looks like SUSE has a lot of fans here, so I'll go with that first.

Thanks again for the help. This is a great forum.

I think either Ubuntu or Fedora are the way to go. There's such a large volume of support for those distros out there, that even if you do have to resort to the command line, many, many FAQs and easy to follow guides exist to make it as simple as doing regular Windows maintenance tasks.

Well, I tried Ubuntu...and failed. I couldn't boot up from the LiveCd even though I burned it properly (with 2 different .iso programs onto 3 kinds of disks.) I kept getting a "buffer i/o error on device..." error during startup.

I found a way around that, and almost got it to boot. But when the desktop should have appeared, the monitors went blank. So I restarted in Safe VGA mode and succeded in starting it up.

Then I tried to install it to my USB HD (to later put in my Thinkpad) and the install program hung at around 30%. No luck.

So I downloaded the 'Alternate' Ubuntu and tried that. I tried installing it directly onto the USB HD after booting up (before getting to desktop) and again it hung at around 30%. No luck there either.

Do I give up and try another distro?

Well, I'm DLing OpenSUSE 10.2 now.
Edit: And Kubuntu as well.

Hopefully one of these will work.

I do like this Ubuntu as it's running Live on my PC desktop. I'd like to try it on my X31, but I'm still unable to install it. The installer just insists on hanging at 32%.

I've followed many threads elsewhere that describe the same problem, with a myriad of solutions: changing CD/DVD drives, disabling Floppy drive in Bios, reformatting target drive, running "alternate" version of Ubuntu, using Fail-safe Bios settings, typing in strange commands at the boot menu...nothing helps, it always hangs at 32%.

I'm starting to think Linux users all began with degrees in computer engineering.

I guess I'll give Suse a go anyway.

Are you installing the OS onto your laptop hard drive while it is in a Desktop computer? If you are you will have problems. Desktop computers and laptops do not address the hard drive the same way and if you do get it installed that way you will probably have problems when you move the drive back to the laptop.
Operating Systems for a laptop need to be installed in a laptop, not a desktop.
You should not have any problems with Ubuntu booting on an X31 as long as you have a CD drive for it.
Have you seen this? http://thinkwiki.org/wiki/Installing_Ub ... inkPad_X31 There are instructions for no CD drive install.
Alternatively you could try Colinux http://www.colinux.org/ It runs in windows.

Thanks Carbon.

Are you installing the OS onto your laptop hard drive while it is in a Desktop computer?

I was, yes.

If you are you will have problems.

You got that right.

Have you seen this? http://thinkwiki.org/wiki/Installing_Ub ... inkPad_X31 There are instructions for no CD drive install.

Thanks, that's perfect! I'm following the USB Thumbdrive instructions now. I'll let you know how it goes.
Thanks again.

I followed these instructions from that page:

1. Connect the USB drive to the host and format it.
2. Get a bootable system and all needed installation files onto the USB drive, i.e. by copying the complete filesystem from your installation CD-ROM to the USB drive.
3. Insert the USB drive into the USB port of your ThinkPad.
4. Power on the ThinkPad and press F12 to get to the boot menu.
5. Select the USB drive as boot media and boot.
6. Follow the normal installation process.

But my X31 would not boot up off of the USB drive.

I figure that my USB drive is not formatted properly to function as a boot disk. Is that correct?

So on this page I found instructions on how to do a special format to allow USB drive to work as bootable drive. I need to use Fdisk for this, but without a floppy drive on my X31, how can I use Fdisk?

Many, many thanks. I feel like I'm getting close...

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/255867/
Scroll down about half way.

Thanks Carbon. I'm not sure which of those instructions I was meant to follow, as many seemed for Win98 or require a floppy boot disk.

The one I could apply, I did this: I typed 'Command' into the Run dialog box and brought up the DOS-looking screen. From there I typed 'fdisk'.

It only returns this error:
" "'FDISK" is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file."

Does XP even have fdisk on it? I tried booting from my XP CD, and couldn't find any way to get to fdisk there either.

To recap my situation: How do I use XP to make this USB drive bootable so I can copy contents of Ubuntu disc onto it and boot Ubuntu from USB?

Thank you tons for your patience.

Try this: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=316093&
It would be much easier if you could borrow a USB cdrom drive for an hour.

Thanks again Carbon.
I've decided to put this off until I can borrow a CD drive.

I have had extremely good luck with Ubuntu on T42s.

Fedora Core 7 - that's what I am running on my tri-booting X31. Works fine every time.

ragefury32 wrote:Fedora Core 7 - that's what I am running on my tri-booting X31. Works fine every time.

Did you use a CD drive to install it?

Just to add my 0.02p; I would recommend Ubuntu. I can't say it definitely works best on ThinkPads, but my experience has been absolutely glowing.

I wrote a guide for my T40 and I would hazard a guess that your X31 has not to dissimilar specifications so you may find it useful to the follow a guide that I wrote which is available on my blog (see the WWW link below.)

On my T40 the main thing that I had to work on was multiple screen support, TV output, IrDA. I don't use the modem so I have had no cause to set that up yet. Everything else worked straight out of the box, video, sound, wifi, power management and so forth.

Vicky

before my T22 kinda kicked the bucket on me, i had Ubuntu Feisty installed with everything working right away. just use the standard install/LIVE CD and you'll have no problems.

i was playing tetris during the installation though. but that doesn't matter.

i don't have a touchpad, but the thinklight did work without problems. same with ethernet and USB.

On My R40 I have run Suse 10.2 and the only thing I had to install was the atheros drivers for my wireless card.
Very soon Suse will be coming out with 10.3 which should be faster with some improvements.

I am currently running PClinuxOS on this machine. It use's an install CD which can be used as a live CD also.
That distro is just plain simple and easy to use. It found and installed everything for me.

http://www.pclinuxos.com/

I guess one question to ask is are you interested in using KDE desktop or Gnome?

Thanks everyone. I think my efforts all failed becasue I don't have a USB CD drive for my X31. Instead I was trying to use my PC to install Ubuntu onto the X31 HD in a USB enclosure. Then I tried making a bootable USB, but couldn't.

It seems it will be a lot easier when I can borrow a CD drive.

John Henry wrote:Thanks everyone. I think my efforts all failed becasue I don't have a USB CD drive for my X31. Instead I was trying to use my PC to install Ubuntu onto the X31 HD in a USB enclosure. Then I tried making a bootable USB, but couldn't.

Do you have access to a USB floppy drive? Some, if not most, distros have an option of booting from a floppy drive and then downloading the installation data over the network. Overall, its a slower process but it works as well.

John Henry wrote:It seems it will be a lot easier when I can borrow a CD drive.

Yes, it will be simplest.