Thinkpads Forum

Hi there all. I am a long time Linux user (almost 10 years), though I do not consider myself an expert by any means. I started with a floppy disk install of Slackware. From there I moved to RedHat, Mardrake, Vector, SUSE, Kubuntu, Ubuntu, Mepis, and finally PCLinuxOS. I really love PCLinuxOS and have enjoyed it for over a year. It is not coming off of my desktop machine for sure, but I have just acquired a very nice ThinkPad T61, with the Intel GMA X3100 and I just know that the distro is not ready to support it with its usual polish. I am certain it will eventually, but in the mean time I thought it may be a good opportunity to do some distro hopping and see how the rest of the Linux distros are doing, especially in regards to supporting my hardware.

I realize that this particular hardware is still quite new, but I know that a lot of work has already been done upstream that may not have yet worked its way to all the distros, if any. So, let me emphasize this, I am looking for the distro that will best support my hardware, hopefully "out of the box" or with minimal work on my part. (While I enjoy tinkering, I don't have much time for it these days.) So, if you think you have a champ that you can recommend to me in good conscience, by all means lets hear about it.

These are the specs of my machine:

T61 ThinkPad:

- Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T7250 (2.0GHz 800MHz 2MBL2)

- XP Pro (partition already shrunk to 40 GB, planing on deleting the R&R partition since I already made CD set.)

- 15.4 WSXGA+ TFT

- Intel GMA X3100 GM965

- 2 GB PC2-5300 DDR2 SDRAM 667MHz SODIMM Memory (2 DIMM)

- 160GB Hard Disk Drive, 7200rpm

- No Turbo Memory hard drive cache

- CD-RW/DVD-ROM Combo

- PC Card Slot & Express Card Slot

- Intel PRO/Wireless 3945ABG

- No Bluetooth

- 9 cell Li-Ion Battery

You can try a debian netinstall to get a customized debian etch install for your T61. I am a huge fan of debian and it runs extremely well on my T23 and 600X. Or if you want a really simple installation, Ubuntu 7.10 is good as well.

SLED10 runs rally well on the T60, but I have not tried it ... partly because I think debian's apt-get installation system is the best there is today.

gator wrote:You can try a debian netinstall to get a customized debian etch install for your T61. I am a huge fan of debian and it runs extremely well on my T23 and 600X. Or if you want a really simple installation, Ubuntu 7.10 is good as well.

SLED10 runs rally well on the T60, but I have not tried it ... partly because I think debian's apt-get installation system is the best there is today.

I guess Ubuntu is an obvious choice. I'll probably start there. And yes, I agree about apt-get, that is one of the things I like about PCLOS so much.

PS: From what I understand the T60 is quite a bit different than the T61, at least for my purposes, since it has a very different chipset. So, what worked on the T60 may not work on the T61. I am hoping someone can give me some first hand experience with the T61, or point me to some success story.

On my R61 I had to use something with the newer kernel to get my 4965agn wireless card to work. I tried kubuntu7.10 and it was OK but I like Linux Mint better, it seems more polished. The newest version is in beta right now but the last stable version should work fine with your T61. They have a gnome, kde or xfce distro's.

carbon_unit wrote:On my R61 I had to use something with the newer kernel to get my 4965agn wireless card to work. I tried kubuntu7.10 and it was OK but I like Linux Mint better, it seems more polished. The newest version is in beta right now but the last stable version should work fine with your T61. They have a gnome, kde or xfce distro's.

Linux Mint of course, I had forgotten about that one. I have heard good things about it. But, from what you say, it sounds like the new version may be coming out soon. I think I will wait for that one and see how it goes.

My machine has the 3945ABG wireless card. I wonder if what you said applies to that as well. Well, I guess I am confined to using the newest possible kernel any way.

My last T60 had the 3945 card and it worked fine with the last stable version. My present T60 has an Atheros card and I am waiting for the new stable release before installing it since it is my work computer.

I recommend Mandriva, since that is what I am using. Wouldn't you know it that I downloaded the 4.3 GB, 2007 Spring Free DVD version about a week before the latest 2008 version came out.

So I am still using the previous version 2007.1. With my slow internet connection, I did not want to do it over again just now. I plan on getting the commercial paid version when they upgrade again in the spring, as I would like to support their efforts. I have a T42, and I am quite pleased with Mandriva so far.

You Linux fans will probably enjoy reading the post below that I started earlier today: She loves me, she loves me not...

GomJabbar wrote:I recommend Mandriva, ...

I have Mandriva 2008 coming down the tubes as we speak. I am a former Mandrake user. I loyally supported it through its hard times, but eventually was dismayed at their focus on money at the expense of community. So I left. I see that they have made some moves recently towards being more open to the community, rather being an exclusive club, but it seems that one still has to pay for the powerpack version. (Hey, they have the right to run their distro as they see fit, it is just that, considering the fact that the alternatives are so good I don't see where the extra value is.) Well, I'll give the free version a try and see what I think. Its been a while and I do like their control center (which PCLOS makes very good use of ;). We'll see how it goes.

If Mandriva does not do it for you give Mint a try. Their website is down right now due to hosting/bandwidth issues but you can get it here:
http://linux.softpedia.com/get/System/O ... 0183.shtml
This is the last stable version (Celena) The new beta is Daryna.

I just wanted to report that Mandriva did indeed work very well. As far as I could see the main components worked right out of the box, 3D Graphics with the Intel driver, sound, etc. I even saw the little wireless indicator lighting up, althoug I didn't have a wireless router to test it with. I have one now . I will probably try it tomorrow.

I am planning on doing a full writeup of my experiences with several distributions. I might as well take a good look at what the Linux field looks like right now, before i settle on one particular distro for next few months. I hope it gets published somewhere. If not, I'll just make a huge post somewhere and let you all know about it. So far, I am planning on testing, PCLinuxOS and Mandriva, of course, Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Frugalware, Mint, Mepis, and who knows what else. It should be fun.

carbon_unit wrote:If Mandriva does not do it for you give Mint a try. Their website is down right now due to hosting/bandwidth issues but you can get it here:
http://linux.softpedia.com/get/System/O ... 0183.shtml
This is the last stable version (Celena) The new beta is Daryna.

I can't find a KDE version of the "Celena" version. I am not to keen on installing "Cassandra" since it is even older than that one. I think I would rather try the current beta of "Daryna", but there is only a DVD release available and I do not have a DVD burner. So, I will probably have to wait on Mint a little. Too bad. I hope they have the final ready soon.

What's wrong with Gnome? I was always a KDE guy but the Gnome in Mint is good enough I don't care if it is Gnome or KDE. They both work well. I disliked Gnome from the old mandrake and early Ubuntu. It is getting to the point where the line between Gnome and KDE is becoming blurred from a usability standpoint.

Seriously, Debian Etch/stable is pimp and easy while remaining more stable than the majority of distros. With your experience with distros based off Debian, I'll bet you find the real thing much more logical and pleasant.

IMO only Slack, Gentoo, Arch, and SysV/BSD variants have any sort of argument, but that's for another post. At least the first three will take more time initially than Debian Etch to setup. I do not think Etch takes anymore time than removing excess from a distro like Ubuntu.

carbon_unit wrote:What's wrong with Gnome? I was always a KDE guy but the Gnome in Mint is good enough I don't care if it is Gnome or KDE. They both work well. I disliked Gnome from the old mandrake and early Ubuntu. It is getting to the point where the line between Gnome and KDE is becoming blurred from a usability standpoint.

I am just dreading the spartan style of Gnome's lack of configurability. I used to run both desktops until Gnome tried forcing everyone to open a new window per directory on its file manager. I believe they finally gave in and offered an option to configure this, but what about things like not being able to rename folders in the File Save/Open dialog box? It just gives me a bad feeling. Like I am being forced to do things a certain way. On the other hand, I did just try Ubuntu and I do see that a lot of work has been done to polish the desktop. So, I may give Gnome another try, and well, I may just try Mint after all. I think I will try it last in the hopes that the new version comes out before then.

Ubuntu.

Gnome.

Resistance is futile.

Linux Mint is now out of beta and has a full release. http://www.linuxmint.com/index.php

If you really want to wet your fingers try FreeBSD. Not to start a religious war or anything but IMHO it comes closest to a Unix experience. Slackware in Linux world is also close. I have often played around with FreeBSD and find it much more polished than any other Xnix OS that I have ever used.

Other than that my vote is for Kubuntu.

syedj wrote:If you really want to wet your fingers try FreeBSD. Not to start a religious war or anything but IMHO it comes closest to a Unix experience. Slackware in Linux world is also close. I have often played around with FreeBSD and find it much more polished than any other Xnix OS that I have ever used.

Other than that my vote is for Kubuntu.

The thing I don't like about FreeBSD is their license. Well, I guess what I don't like is that the license allows MS (or Apple) to take the code done by open source coders and turn it proprietary, like they have done many times already. (Kerberos any one?) For that reason alone I will not run or recommend FreeBSD. At the OS level, I think the GPL license is the way to go. That way, everyone is assured of being on a level playing field.

Kubuntu is nice looking, but while testing it I saw several areas where it was obvious that it does not receive the same level of attention as Ubuntu. That is a big turn off for me. Whatever distro I use I want it to be first priority for ts developers, not an afterthought.

carbon_unit wrote:Linux Mint is now out of beta and has a full release. http://www.linuxmint.com/index.php

Yes, Mint is very nice. I have decided that I can't settle on any one Linux distro right now. So, I am keeping PCLinuxOS 2007 (with updated 2.6.22.10 kernel), Mandriva 2008, and Mint 4.0 (to start getting more familiar with GNOME). My laptop is happy now.

I'm the same way. I have a hard time settling on a distro. For now i am sticking with mint but in the future......who knows.

Interestingly, I saw a mini-review of Linux Mint Celena in a Mandriva online mag: MagDriva International (an ftp download of a 16-page pdf file)

rm wrote: I am looking for the distro that will best support my hardware, hopefully "out of the box" or with minimal work on my part)

I have been messing around with various Linux distros for quite some time, and right now Ubuntu 7.10 is the best I have seen so far.

1: it reads and writes NTFS with no conversions or hassles.
2: I can get WiFi to work, without the hopelessly confusing menus I find in other versions of Linux.
3: I can run my nice R52 at 1400X1050 resolution and it looks really nice.

This is the first Linux distro that I could really live with should I make the change away from a Windows operating system someday.

mgo wrote: I have been messing around with various Linux distros for quite some time, and right now Ubuntu 7.10 is the best I have seen so far.

1: it reads and writes NTFS with no conversions or hassles.
2: I can get WiFi to work, without the hopelessly confusing menus I find in other versions of Linux.
3: I can run my nice R52 at 1400X1050 resolution and it looks really nice.

This is the first Linux distro that I could really live with should I make the change away from a Windows operating system someday.

Which distros have you tried?

rm wrote:

mgo wrote: I have been messing around with various Linux distros for quite some time, and right now Ubuntu 7.10 is the best I have seen so far.

1: it reads and writes NTFS with no conversions or hassles.
2: I can get WiFi to work, without the hopelessly confusing menus I find in other versions of Linux.
3: I can run my nice R52 at 1400X1050 resolution and it looks really nice.

This is the first Linux distro that I could really live with should I make the change away from a Windows operating system someday.

Which distros have you tried?

Gee...can't remember all of them, but there was:
-Ubuntu 6.06 (worked well with wifi but resolution not even close to 7.1
-suse - just could not figure out the wireless
-puppy linux (not at all useful to me)
-pc linux os. not bad. nice interface-could not get wifi to work on two of my machines
-[censored] small linux (not at all useful to me)
-mandriva (I think)
-knoppix did not satisfy my needs
-simply mephis -not useful to me
-linux mint -not useful due to no ntfs compatability

You might want to just save yourself some time and get started on Ubuntu 7.1. It just works really well...

mgo wrote: You might want to just save yourself some time and get started on Ubuntu 7.1. It just works really well...

mgo wrote: You might want to just save yourself some time and get started on Ubuntu 7.1. It just works really well...

In PCLinuxOS you have to do two things:

1) Install NTFS-3G and ntfs-config from Synaptic.

2) Run ntfs-config to select the NTFS filesystems for which you want write support.

The reason they don't enable ntfs-3g support by default is that the PCLOS developers do not consider it solid/reliable/tested enough. (I did not enable ntfs-3g for the Windows installation partition)

On Mandriva, since I am not as familiar with it, I just edited fstab and told it which partition to use ntfs-3g on.

On Mint I have NTFS write by default. (I don't remember doing anything to enable it.)

I think there are much more important considerations for choosing a distro that NFTS write support at this time. For example, the new VMware Server (1.0.4) installed just fine on PCLinuxOS but I'm having a little trouble on Mandriva. I haven't even tried it on Mint yet because it requires an extra step (since there is no deb available). So, ease of use depends a lot on what you want to do. In general, I have always found PCLinuxOS to be the one that requires less work.

rm wrote:[On Mint I have NTFS write by default. (I don't remember doing anything to enable it.).

Based on your notes about Mint, I may take another look at it...

I tried KDE, kubuntu, Xfce, PClinuxOS, knoppix, mint, but ended up back at ubuntu because it's an adequate DTE and it is simple, and I want to settle on a system that has a chance of becoming a mainstream offering.

John H wrote:I tried KDE, kubuntu, Xfce, PClinuxOS, knoppix, mint, but ended up back at ubuntu because it's an adequate DTE and it is simple, and I want to settle on a system that has a chance of becoming a mainstream offering.

Sounds like you may be looking for MS Windows then. Really, if what you are looking for is simplicity, there are simpler offerings than Ubuntu, including PCLinuxOS and Mint (there may be others, but those two I know for sure). As for becoming mainstream, what does that buy you? Linux is open source, what works in Ubuntu, will work on any other distro. Now, I am not saying Ubuntu is not a good distro. I think it is great. It has a lot going for it, like its new was of offering codec installation on demand, for example. But, this thing about thinking that it is somehow more future proof because it is more commercially successful is not based on reality, in my opinion.

I'm not going back to windows. I ran that [censored] thing for 20 years and all it did was get more and more complicated, slow, virus-ridden and generally obtrusive. Ubuntu does what I want and then goes into the background. Maybe I'm wrong about what I like about ubuntu, but it suits me. I think many others will like it too, so it has legs. I think. YMMV.

The thing I don't like about FreeBSD is their license. Well, I guess what I don't like is that the license allows MS (or Apple) to take the code done by open source coders and turn it proprietary, like they have done many times already.

Open source code remains open and does not turn proprietary under the BSD license. Your examples are of new development on existing code. Also, I am free to take the GPL and bundle it with my independent program while using whatever closed license I want with said program. See section 2 of the GPL.

BSD's bundling of userland and kernel is much more correct than most Linux distributions for this avid Linux user and professional. I think this is the strongest argument for BSD.