Thinkpads Forum

Posted: **Fri May 30, 2008 4:11 pm**

So, here's where I'm at in terms of hardware configuration prior to loading Ubuntu 8.04.

ThinkPad T60 with 2 hard drives, for dual boot use.

#1 original internal on board HD with XP Pro SP3
#2 second HD in ultra bay (new empty HD) for Ubuntu 8.04

I have a USB external DVD drive to load the Ubuntu Live CD.

The Two Goals:
1) Install Ubuntu on new UltraBay HD, keeping the two: XP & Ubuntu, completely separate on their own respective hard drives, and avoid modifying the windows MBR, or have to go into the BIOS settings.

2) Be able to remove the Ubuntu drive from the UltraBay and have the computer function as a normal windows only machine without further actions required.

Questions:
Can I install Ubuntu to it's drive while both HD's are in the computer? Or will Grub sense the presence of XP and modify the MBR?

Or... do I need to remove the inside HD with XP on it, set it aside and install the new Hard drive in that position to install Ubuntu, thereby eliminating the chance that the MBR is written to.

Then move the new Ubuntu drive back to the UltraBay, re-install the original XP HD back in it's place inside the computer.

I have searched, and read the threads on dual booting with two HD's and still I'm not sure how to accomplish this. There was one comment I read to the effect of adding a line to Grub which then causes it to list the choices upon boot up. This way one could keep the BIOS settings, and the win MBR as they are. It also said that one could then remove the Ubuntu HD at anytime and the computer would function as a normal XP laptop.

However what that post lacked was clear instructions for the exact way to enter the command line changes in Grub, using the Terminal. As very new user, it's unfamiliar to me.

Therefore if this is indeed possible and someone would be so kind as to provide exact step by step instructions on this I would be very grateful.

Thank You ! for your time and help.

Posted: **Fri May 30, 2008 4:40 pm**

Actually, I think the preferred method would be a reinstall of both OS, Ubuntu in the main slot, and Windows XP in the UltraBay. As far as bootloaders go, Ubuntu's usually nice about not messing up Windows, but it's strongly advised to let Grub handle bootloading.

If I was in your situation I would do what I mentioned before, although you might be able to get away with Ubuntu in the Ultrabay slot, and it managing the bootloader.... be warned as I'm not sure how Ubuntu handles it, so if you pull the Ultrabay caddy out you might not be able to boot Windows.

Posted: **Fri May 30, 2008 5:04 pm**

tylerwylie wrote:Actually, I think the preferred method would be a reinstall of both OS, Ubuntu in the main slot, and Windows XP in the UltraBay. As far as bootloaders go, Ubuntu's usually nice about not messing up Windows, but it's strongly advised to let Grub handle bootloading.

If I was in your situation I would do what I mentioned before, although you might be able to get away with Ubuntu in the Ultrabay slot, and it managing the bootloader.... be warned as I'm not sure how Ubuntu handles it, so if you pull the Ultrabay caddy out you might not be able to boot Windows.

Thanks for the fast response.

I'm very open to any suggestions and yours about Ubuntu in the main slot is fine, especially if that would make things easier. Also I really do not expect to _have_ to move it. The only reason I was going to set it up as an utlrabay drive, is that I also have a T60p which would be fun to be able to move Linux between the two but not a priority.

Now since the main drive already has XP on it, and I am going to put it in the utlra bay is it still important to reinstall XP on it, and why? Just for my clarification please. I must have XP for a few work projects which will not run on Linux at this point. Thus Having Linux as my main OS on it's own drive gives me a lot of room (100gb drive).

The Main Goal is to learn Linux, eventually move to it completely, while for the present time I can still have XP on the same laptop.

Thanks again!

Posted: **Fri May 30, 2008 5:10 pm**

Sometimes if you move XP's hard drive around it'll fuss, you can try it in there but there might be a need to reinstall.

If you're looking to fully move towards Linux, however, and need Windows for some work stuff I'd recommend a virtualization solution, as will some people here. I use VMWare Workstation to run Windows, for some work requirements, and it fills the need perfectly. Just no 3d effects really, but who needs that

The best thing about this is the easy access to help online. If you have any questions don't hesitate to ask.

Posted: **Fri May 30, 2008 5:29 pm**

tylerwylie wrote:Sometimes if you move XP's hard drive around it'll fuss, you can try it in there but there might be a need to reinstall.

If you're looking to fully move towards Linux, however, and need Windows for some work stuff I'd recommend a virtualization solution, as will some people here. I use VMWare Workstation to run Windows, for some work requirements, and it fills the need perfectly. Just no 3d effects really, but who needs that

The best thing about this is the easy access to help online. If you have any questions don't hesitate to ask.

I'm learning a lot here, thanks to your input. You've brought up a good idea that frankly I thought of once and then promptly forgot about, as I've heard of WMWare but not researched..

VMWare Workstation, If I was to take this approach, and you were to suggest a setup how would I implement this? Would VMWare be installed on the same drive with windows, or ubuntu?
Or would I be better off getting one larger drive for the main bay and forget putting a drive in the ultra bay. Then load XP/Ubuntu/WMWare all on the same drive? I also noticed you are running 4GB ram, so it appears that unlike XP @ 3GB max. Linux can handle 4?

I'm very open to whatever is the easiest most sensible way to approach this project. I can return the drive I just bought as I have not even opened it yet. Perhaps a single 120 to ? size hard drive is better than two HD's? And to increase my ram from 2 to 4? I want to do this once, the correct way.

For Reference"
My ThinkPad is a 2007-73U
Core duo 2GHz
2GB 667 ram
100GB 5400 rpm
AT& X1400 graphics
Intel WiFi
CD/DVD combo drive
WinXP SP3

If this was yours and you could set it up anyway, what would that be?

Thanks!

Posted: **Fri May 30, 2008 6:05 pm**

With VMWare you have a host and a guest. My current configuration is what you see, Fedora's got the hard drive and it runs everything. VMWare workstation creates a file that's essentially my Windows image. VMWare Workstation, (And it's free alternative, VMWare Server) will run on both Linux and Windows, and they will function as the host for the guests you run inside them. The memory limitation is more of a mathematical one, 32 bit OS's can't handle more than the 3GB without PAE, which incurs a slight performance penalty. If you use 64 bit of either Windows or Linux you'll get the 4GB, unfortunately T60's are limited to 3GB, you can install 4 but the BIOS will only see 3, and therefore the OS.

Still, 3GB of RAM, and even 2GB is enough to go with a virtualization solution. If you happen to go with it, I'd recommend getting a 7200 RPM hard drive, as that is the bottleneck with a Core 2 Duo and 667MHZ RAM. (Most Core 2 Duo's have Intel VT technology, which means hardware level virtualization, which VMWare Workstation takes advantage of, but not Server...yet

)

Right now on my 200GB 7200 RPM HD, in my home directory there's a 30 GB file that VMWare will use for running Windows out of, I've backed it up to an external hard drive, if at some point this hard drive dies, (There are 2 kinds of people, those who back up their files, and those who haven't had a hard drive die

).

That's the amazing thing about Virtualization, VMWare Workstation is full of goodies, and well worth the price,(I'd ask friends in school/possibly work to see if they'd help you out, Educational discounts help a lot!) I can fullscreen my virtual machine if someone wants to use my laptop, and they would NOT be able to tell it's running linux, the performance is great!

What I would do:

Double check CPU has VT technology(Can be turned on at BIOS if it's there)

Go up to 3GB DDR2 @ 667mhz ram(It'll still run dual channel)

7200 RPM hard drive.

If you're still not comfortable enough to make the switch to Linux, you might want to try VMWare Server in Windows first, and run Linux inside that and see how it all works out. Otherwise if you go to Linux, VMWare Workstation is fairly easy to setup, as you really just need to install a couple development packages(fairly simple process in most distributions, one or two commands on the command line, or use the provided GUI tools to install packages) and run VMWare's little "install" script and BAM everything works.

Posted: **Fri May 30, 2008 6:37 pm**

tylerwylie wrote:With VMWare you have a host and a guest. My current configuration is what you see, Fedora's got the hard drive and it runs everything. VMWare workstation creates a file that's essentially my Windows image. VMWare Workstation, (And it's free alternative, VMWare Server) will run on both Linux and Windows, and they will function as the host for the guests you run inside them. The memory limitation is more of a mathematical one, 32 bit OS's can't handle more than the 3GB without PAE, which incurs a slight performance penalty. If you use 64 bit of either Windows or Linux you'll get the 4GB, unfortunately T60's are limited to 3GB, you can install 4 but the BIOS will only see 3, and therefore the OS.

Still, 3GB of RAM, and even 2GB is enough to go with a virtualization solution. If you happen to go with it, I'd recommend getting a 7200 RPM hard drive, as that is the bottleneck with a Core 2 Duo and 667MHZ RAM. (Most Core 2 Duo's have Intel VT technology, which means hardware level virtualization, which VMWare Workstation takes advantage of, but not Server...yet )

Right now on my 200GB 7200 RPM HD, in my home directory there's a 30 GB file that VMWare will use for running Windows out of, I've backed it up to an external hard drive, if at some point this hard drive dies, (There are 2 kinds of people, those who back up their files, and those who haven't had a hard drive die ).

That's the amazing thing about Virtualization, VMWare Workstation is full of goodies, and well worth the price,(I'd ask friends in school/possibly work to see if they'd help you out, Educational discounts help a lot!) I can fullscreen my virtual machine if someone wants to use my laptop, and they would NOT be able to tell it's running linux, the performance is great!

What I would do:

Double check CPU has VT technology(Can be turned on at BIOS if it's there)

Go up to 3GB DDR2 @ 667mhz ram(It'll still run dual channel)

7200 RPM hard drive.

If you're still not comfortable enough to make the switch to Linux, you might want to try VMWare Server in Windows first, and run Linux inside that and see how it all works out. Otherwise if you go to Linux, VMWare Workstation is fairly easy to setup, as you really just need to install a couple development packages(fairly simple process in most distributions, one or two commands on the command line, or use the provided GUI tools to install packages) and run VMWare's little "install" script and BAM everything works.

1) My OCD insures that I'm a trained professional at Daily Backup....

2) I'm very committed to this Linux transition, and ready to make it my Main OS, with XP Pro available using VMWare.

Therefore to summarize I will (please correct or edit if I missed something)

A) Install a 200GB 7200rpm primary and only drive.
B) Install a 2GB memory module for a total of 3GB
C) Install Win XP Pro SP2 off the OEM Disk I have (not IBM/Lenovo)
D) Install Ubuntu and VMWare Workstation, running XP on the Virtual Machine, Thus running Linux natively.

What is the correct installation order of these three, XP/Linux/VMWare? Should I burn the XP Restore/Rescue discs using the utility on the T60? or Use the plain OEM XP Pro SP2 disk I have? If so, will there be a lot of time required to find, download and install the IBM specific drivers that may be required or will the OEM disk from MS be enough?

Thanks for your time, diligence and attention, as I want to get this done soon, as I have an upcoming business trip.

Posted: **Fri May 30, 2008 6:44 pm**

No installation of Windows before Linux, you install Linux and only Linux, then after getting VMWare configured, you use its tools to create and install a virtual Windows image. You can't use the IBM/Lenovo discs for this, though. You can setup shared folders between your guest and host OS' too.

Also what model Core Duo do you have?

I believe the 2GHZ has Intel VT technology, so you should turn that on in your BIOS.

Also, depending on which version of Linux you install, and depending on the kernel version, you might have to apply a small patch to the VMWare installation script. It's relatively painless and if you need help with that I can show you how to do it.

Posted: **Fri May 30, 2008 7:18 pm**

tylerwylie wrote:No installation of Windows before Linux, you install Linux and only Linux, then after getting VMWare configured, you use its tools to create and install a virtual Windows image. You can't use the IBM/Lenovo discs for this, though. You can setup shared folders between your guest and host OS' too.

Also what model Core Duo do you have?

I believe the 2GHZ has Intel VT technology, so you should turn that on in your BIOS.

Also, depending on which version of Linux you install, and depending on the kernel version, you might have to apply a small patch to the VMWare installation script. It's relatively painless and if you need help with that I can show you how to do it.

ThinkPad T60
2007-73U
15.0" FlexView
1400 x 1050
Core Duo 2.0MHz
2.0 GB ram
100 GB HD @ 5400rpm
Intel WiFi
ATI X1400 128mb

Will be installing Ubuntu 8.04 LTS Hardy Heron Live CD (don't know kernel version yet)

So if I understand correctly I will not need any XP discs? Save me from having to burn them, or use OEM CD correct? VMWare creates Windows XP Pro SP 2?

Step
1) Install Ubuntu on new main 7200 rpm HD
2) Install & configure VMWare Workstation

Posted: **Fri May 30, 2008 7:37 pm**

You will need discs, or an ISO image(It can use either).

If the kernel version is a 2.6.25, you'll need the patch to get it working until an update is released from VMWare.

Posted: **Fri May 30, 2008 7:47 pm**

tylerwylie wrote:You will need discs, or an ISO image(It can use either).

If the kernel version is a 2.6.25, you'll need the patch to get it working until an update is released from VMWare.

From your earlier post:
"No installation of Windows before Linux, you install Linux and only Linux, then after getting VMWare configured, you use its tools to create and install a virtual Windows image. "

"You can't use the IBM/Lenovo discs for this, though."

Meaning I use my OEM Disc of XP Pro SP2?

Posted: **Fri May 30, 2008 7:47 pm**

Correct, or an ISO image(common in volume keys) and tell VMWare to use the ISO instead of your CDRom drive.

Posted: **Fri May 30, 2008 7:59 pm**

tylerwylie wrote:Correct, or an ISO image(common in volume keys) and tell VMWare to use the ISO instead of your CDRom drive.

I do not have an ISO, so it sounds like using the XP OEM disc I do have, in my Optical Drive is the best route correct?

And the rest is now very clear. Thanks, your help is greatly appreciated...

Posted: **Fri May 30, 2008 8:01 pm**

Go ahead and make the restore discs before you play with any Linux installs. You may need them when it is time to sell the unit. You don't plan on keeping it forever do you?

Posted: **Fri May 30, 2008 8:13 pm**

carbon_unit wrote:Go ahead and make the restore discs before you play with any Linux installs. You may need them when it is time to sell the unit. You don't plan on keeping it forever do you?

Great Point!
The reason I haven't made them to this point, is that my included UltraBay Combo drive was defective, and would read but not write from day one. Because I travel constantly on business and had little use for burning disks, I simply let it slide. Oops... out of warranty now...

So I just recently bought an external USB DVD burner just for a project like this.

What type of dual boot setup do you have? And what distro of Linux are you using? Any comments will be happily reviewed (for my educational purposes only) ....

Cheers

Posted: **Fri May 30, 2008 8:16 pm**

I have done the following on my T42, so I am fairly sure your T60 should behave similarly.

You can boot, run, and install to a hard drive in the Ultrabay slot. If you remove the XP drive from the main hard drive slot, then use an external USB optical drive, you can install whatever you want to the hard drive in the Ultrabay slot without affecting the main hard drive in the slightest.

Once your installation is done, put the XP drive back into the main hard drive slot. On boot up if you do nothing, XP will boot. On boot up if you press F12, you get a BIOS boot menu that lets you choose which hard drive to boot from - the main hard drive or the Ultrabay hard drive. In the Windows world whichever drive you boot becomes the C: drive and the other will be the D: drive. AFAIK, Linux tends to name their drives differently, but the effect is the same.

I used the above method to install Vista on my second hard drive without worrying about the Vista boot loader being automatically installed on the XP drive. This way I can remove either drive with no errors to contend with. Additionally, I could swap the main hard drive and second hard drive with no ill effects such as the drive letter changing on the boot drive.

------------

Another option I read about recently is using the Wubi installer to install Ubuntu as a typical Windows application within Windows. There is a recent thread here that I read about this in - I am just lazy to search for it just now. http://wubi-installer.org/

Posted: **Fri May 30, 2008 8:41 pm**

GomJabbar wrote:I have done the following on my T42, so I am fairly sure your T60 should behave similarly.

You can boot, run, and install to a hard drive in the Ultrabay slot. If you remove the XP drive from the main hard drive slot, then use an external USB optical drive, you can install whatever you want to the hard drive in the Ultrabay slot without affecting the main hard drive in the slightest.

Once your installation is done, put the XP drive back into the main hard drive slot. On boot up if you do nothing, XP will boot. On boot up if you press F12, you get a BIOS boot menu that lets you choose which hard drive to boot from - the main hard drive or the Ultrabay hard drive. In the Windows world whichever drive you boot becomes the C: drive and the other will be the D: drive. AFAIK, Linux tends to name their drives differently, but the effect is the same.

I used the above method to install Vista on my second hard drive without worrying about the Vista boot loader being automatically installed on the XP drive. This way I can remove either drive with no errors to contend with. Additionally, I could swap the main hard drive and second hard drive with no ill effects such as the drive letter changing on the boot drive.

Kudo's to You! This is brilliant and just what I have been wanting to accomplish.

Frankly I have read so much about this subject on linux forums over the last week, and most specifically Ubuntu, that I'm on sensory overload, and looking for someone to pull all this together for me. This is just the clarification that I needed as your description fits the bill to a T. (after which he laughs at the random and unintentional play on words....."T" get it?.....

)

The only thing better than a ThinkPad, or a bunch of ThinkPads (what ? me part with my precious collection of ThinkPads? ) is ThinkPads.com the Forum of all Forums!
Populated by people like myself with a burning desire and passion for the finest laptop ever.

Thanks GomJabbar, You Made My Day!

Posted: **Fri May 30, 2008 8:46 pm**

archer6 wrote:What type of dual boot setup do you have? And what distro of Linux are you using? Any comments will be happily reviewed (for my educational purposes only) ....

Cheers

I have Windows XP, a non-bootable service partition, and Mandriva Linux on my main hard drive with the GRUB boot loader installed. I have Vista Ultimate on my Ultrabay hard drive.

When both drives are in my T42, if I do nothing I get the GRUB menu to boot Windows XP or Mandriva. If I press F12 I can choose to boot the second hard drive which will then boot straight into Windows Vista.

I received my T42 with the primary hard drive partitioned with Windows XP, the service partition, and Linux all visible from the GRUB menu. The service partition never did boot all the way up but I did not want to start from scratch to fix it. When I received my T42 I was new to Linux and did not know anything about installing or making adjustments to GRUB, so the original GRUB is still there although I am running a different version of Linux now.

HTH

EDIT: I should have added that if you do not have an external optical drive handy, you can use the Ultrabay optical drive, but you need to remove the main hard drive and put the second hard drive in the main hard drive's slot to do the OS installation. Just seems like more work to me.

Posted: **Fri May 30, 2008 9:36 pm**

GomJabbar wrote:I have Windows XP, a non-bootable service partition, and Mandriva Linux on my main hard drive with the GRUB boot loader installed. I have Vista Ultimate on my Ultrabay hard drive.

When both drives are in my T42, if I do nothing I get the GRUB menu to boot Windows XP or Mandriva. If I press F12 I can choose to boot the second hard drive which will then boot straight into Windows Vista.

I am running a different version of Linux now.

HTH

One of the main reasons I wanted to leave my main drive with XP and the rescue and recovery partition alone, is that I have so much time setting up all my preferences, software, etc, and it's running perfectly. Also while I say (Today) I want to move to Linux 100%, you know how that is, I may change my mind. So the ultimate for me is what you outlined. And the very reason I purchased the second hard drive, ultra bay adapter, and inexpensive USB external optical drive.

I may indeed continue to use this T60 for a longer period of time than any of my prior T models, as it's my favorite, it has the 4x3 ratio display with FlexView @ 1400 x 1050, my fav resolution.

I have a meager R51e 1.5MHz Celeron, 1GB ram, 40 GB 4200 rpm HD and 14"XGA which I used to test Ubuntu. I simply wiped the drive and installed that linux distro as the only OS. After just 2 weeks, I'm enjoying it so much that I want to install it on my T60. By creating the ideal setup of two drives with XP & Linux I have the best of both worlds. Windows to do my work, and Linux to provide an opportunity to learn something new.....

Posted: **Sun Jun 01, 2008 10:13 pm**

GomJabbar wrote: I have Windows XP, a non-bootable service partition, and Mandriva Linux on my main hard drive with the GRUB boot loader installed. I have Vista Ultimate on my Ultrabay hard drive.

i'm trying to do something like this but in the inverse, XP in the main HD and debian in the ultrabay HD. would you care to share your GRUB set-up?

alfio

Posted: **Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:32 am**

alfio wrote:i'm trying to do something like this but in the inverse, XP in the main HD and debian in the ultrabay HD. would you care to share your GRUB set-up?

Code: Select all

timeout 10
color black/cyan yellow/cyan
gfxmenu (hd0,4)/boot/gfxmenu
default 0

title linux
kernel (hd0,4)/boot/vmlinuz BOOT_IMAGE=linux root=/dev/hda5 splash=silent vga=788
initrd (hd0,4)/boot/initrd.img

title linux-nonfb
kernel (hd0,4)/boot/vmlinuz BOOT_IMAGE=linux-nonfb root=/dev/hda5 
initrd (hd0,4)/boot/initrd.img

title failsafe
kernel (hd0,4)/boot/vmlinuz BOOT_IMAGE=failsafe root=/dev/hda5 failsafe
initrd (hd0,4)/boot/initrd.img

title Windows XP Professional SP3
root (hd0,0)
makeactive
chainloader +1

title IBM Rescue and Recovery
root (hd0,1)
makeactive
chainloader +1

Posted: **Mon Jun 02, 2008 12:46 pm**

GomJabbar wrote:

Code: Select all

timeout 10
color black/cyan yellow/cyan
gfxmenu (hd0,4)/boot/gfxmenu
default 0

I still plan to set my T60 up in the manner we discussed earlier, in which you were kind enough to give a very nice, clear & easily understood answer to my questions. I'm simply waiting for the hard drive to arrive, after which I will get it all setup.

So while this example has no bearing on what I'm doing nonetheless I wanted to thank you for posting this as I have learned a lot by reading it. In addition I wanted to compliment your skill at providing the type of support that is very clear and concise. Not everyone is capable of making things so clear. Your contributions here are greatly appreciated.

Cheers!

Posted: **Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:31 pm**

"Oh... Shucks, folks, I'm speechless!"

Thanks archer6.

Posted: **Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:11 pm**

GomJabbar wrote: You can boot, run, and install to a hard drive in the Ultrabay slot. If you remove the XP drive from the main hard drive slot, then use an external USB optical drive, you can install whatever you want to the hard drive in the Ultrabay slot without affecting the main hard drive in the slightest.

Once your installation is done, put the XP drive back into the main hard drive slot. On boot up if you do nothing, XP will boot. On boot up if you press F12, you get a BIOS boot menu that lets you choose which hard drive to boot from - the main hard drive or the Ultrabay hard drive./

I followed your directions carefully and the outcome was simply fantastic! Not only did it turn out exactly as you outlined, but the entire project took less than 90 minutes which included installing the new drive in the ultra bay. Then to make the experience even more enjoyable, Ubuntu 8.04 runs perfectly with my hardware and I was thrilled to find that I didn't have anything to sort out. Simply amazing. Absolutely everything works.

Thanks again, GomJabbar! Your suggestions and help was priceless!

Cheers,
archer6

Posted: **Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:48 am**

Great! Glad to be of service.

Posted: **Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:06 pm**

carbon_unit wrote:Go ahead and make the restore discs before you play with any Linux installs. You may need them when it is time to sell the unit. You don't plan on keeping it forever do you?

Since I had no way to burn these, I called IBM Tech Support and they shipped out a set of CD's for my model at no charge, no questions asked, including free shipping. I received them in three days. The level of courtesy, competency and efficiency I enjoyed was remarkable. The entire phone call lasted less than three minutes.

_This_ is just _another reason_ I have remained such a _happy, loyal ThinkPad customer_ for so long......

Posted: **Sun Jun 15, 2008 5:03 pm**

archer6 wrote: I followed your directions carefully and the outcome was simply fantastic! Not only did it turn out exactly as you outlined, but the entire project took less than 90 minutes which included installing the new drive in the ultra bay. Then to make the experience even more enjoyable, Ubuntu 8.04 runs perfectly with my hardware and I was thrilled to find that I didn't have anything to sort out. Simply amazing. Absolutely everything works.

Archer,

Did you have to do anything beyond what Gom outlined to get you Linux install to boot off the Ultrabay HD? And is yours the PATA or SATA adapter? I have a 160G in a SATA Ultrabay adapter and have been trying to install Ubunto onto it with via netinstall. I've tried both with and without my Vista HD installed in the primary bay and still end up with "Cannot boot from any device" when I select ATA HDD1" from the bootlist.

I was thinking of trying the 160G in my primary bay and installing via optical disk, but assuming I'd then have to jack around with drive mapping a bit to get it to work in the Ultrabay. In any case, it sounds like you've worked out exactly what I want to do. Did you ever run across anything like this?

Daniel

Posted: **Sun Jun 15, 2008 10:35 pm**

dbonds wrote:
archer6 wrote: I followed your directions carefully and the outcome was simply fantastic! Not only did it turn out exactly as you outlined, but the entire project took less than 90 minutes which included installing the new drive in the ultra bay. Then to make the experience even more enjoyable, Ubuntu 8.04 runs perfectly with my hardware and I was thrilled to find that I didn't have anything to sort out. Simply amazing. Absolutely everything works.
Archer,

Did you have to do anything beyond what Gom outlined to get you Linux install to boot off the Ultrabay HD? And is yours the PATA or SATA adapter? I have a 160G in a SATA Ultrabay adapter and have been trying to install Ubuntu onto it with via netinstall. I've tried both with and without my Vista HD installed in the primary bay and still end up with "Cannot boot from any device" when I select ATA HDD1" from the bootlist.

I was thinking of trying the 160G in my primary bay and installing via optical disk, but assuming I'd then have to jack around with drive mapping a bit to get it to work in the Ultrabay. In any case, it sounds like you've worked out exactly what I want to do. Did you ever run across anything like this?

Daniel

Hi Daniel,

In an effort to help you, first I will outline what I did, so that you have it to compare with where you are at. I began with my T60 in its original state, which was, the original hard drive in it's bay & the original cd/dvdrw optical drive in the ultra bay. The first task was to remove the optical drive from the ultra bay. Then install the new SATA hdd into the SATA ultrabay adapter & insert that assembly into the ultrabay.

Next I removed the original hard dive from the computer & set it aside. Then I connected my external USB DVD burner to the computer. I then inserted the Ubuntu 8.04 disc into the optical drive. Now I booted the computer, it looked for the OEM hard drive & when it was not there, the computer next looked for a USB drive to boot from & found the external drive with Ubuntu. It then put a dialog box on the display asking me what I wanted to do. The list offered "Install Ubuntu" & I selected that & hit enter. Then I simply watched as the install routine was Automatic Once the install was complete, I shut down & re installed the original drive (XP Pro). I checked the operation of both Linux & XP, everything works perfectly. Nothing to debug or sort out.

Now when I first boot up from cold, it boots to XP as though nothing had changed.
If I want the option of Linux, then I boot & when the IBM/Lenovo splash screen appears I press the F12 key, which brings up a dialog box allowing me a choice of which drive I wish to boot to, at which point I choose the linux drive and it quickly boots to Ubuntu. As noted previously there are a few huge advantages of this method. One is the Grub boot loader cannot write to the XP Master Boot Record, since that drive is not in the computer during install. Two, no need to make any BIOS changes in the boot order, as the second place it looks to boot from is the USB drive. Third is that I can remove the ultrabay hard drive to use one of my other ultrabay devices such as my optical drive, ultrabay battery or anything else I want to put in the ultrabay, without having to make any changes.

So now regarding your issue I'm wondering if perhaps the issue is due to the fact that you are using a different source to do your install from. Netinstall as we both know is a bit different.

I'm thinking that if you follow the order that I just outlined, it should work well for you. However that said I might suggest you look in your BIOS to see if your boot order is the same, IE: the usb is the second item in the list.

Something else comes to mind. Above you mention that you have tried with the main drive in place. Was it in place while doing the install? If so, I would check the master boot record for that drive. I do know that is a source of problems if written to by Grub. Since I've had mine up & running, I've done a lot of studying about Grub & Ubuntu, as I plan on gradually migrating as much of my work over to Unbuntu as I can. I've also just completed a dual boot install today which involved just one 200GB main drive on one of my other Thinkpads a T42p. So my only point is that I'm learning the various pitfalls of modifications to both Grub, the MBR, & the sequence in which certain events must occur.

I look forward to hearing how you are doing.

Cheers!
sent via: BlackBerry Curve

Posted: **Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:37 pm**

archer6 wrote:I look forward to hearing how you are doing.

Cheers!
sent via: BlackBerry Curve

Wow. Did you really write all that from a BlackBerry? Dang.

I just got it working. I think it was a case of me not following your/Gom's procedure more closely and not completely understanding how the F12 booting works affects the hardware. I eventually figured out that I needed to have the USB key inserted and boot off that to get my previous install working and that led me down the path towards figuring things out.

Booting from the USB key for the netinstall made the USB key /dev/sda and left sdb and sdc for the other drive(s). As I was attempting the install with only the Ultrabay drive slotted, Linux installed onto /dev/sdb (the Ultrabay drive). Naturally, this hosed things up when I tried to boot from HDD1 as the Ultrabay drive is then /dev/sda. Doh! I think the Linux install was actually aware of this as it apparently setup the USB as my boot device and didn't even flag the Ultrabay drive as bootable. I tried fixing this (flagging the drive as bootable, mucking with grub remapping, etc) and just found myself fighting a rathole of issues and figured a proper reinstall would be easier.

I started following threads of how to do a netinstall from USB key when you want the end result to be a /dev/sda bootable HDD. At some point I realized that this behavior made moot the original reason for my attempting the netinstall altogether. I thought I needed to have the Linux drive in the Ultrabay during install for the mappings to work out right. Once I realized that the F12 booting made the boot device the first in the chain, I just did what Gom described earlier and installed from the optical drive in the Ultrabay slot onto my Linux HD in the main position. Yeah, it was a little more work than using a USB optical drive, but I didn't have a USB optical drive laying around.

I guess that's the best and worst thing about Linux. It's always a learning experience. Now that I understand that niche a little more, it's onto the next challenge.... getting wifi to work... or getting the Fn-F* keys to work.. maybe suspend.... <sigh> I'm sure all the laptop/Thinkpad stuff is more "out of the box" than last time I tried this on my T42, but I'm sure I'll be around here.

Thanks for the help!

Daniel

Posted: **Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:47 pm**

dbonds wrote:
archer6 wrote:I look forward to hearing how you are doing.

Cheers!
sent via: BlackBerry Curve
Wow. Did you really write all that from a BlackBerry? Dang.

I just got it working. I think it was a case of me not following your/Gom's procedure more closely and not completely understanding how the F12 booting works affects the hardware. l

Three cheers for your efforts & success!

I'm really happy to hear you got it up & running.

Yes I did indeed write all that from my BlackBerry, just as I am this message. Since it's just after dinner I'm at home. We are having some major remodeling done & my office is part of it, thus its under construction & I have no internet connection. But that's not going to stop me. I have benefitted from this terrific forum, so whenever I can give back I'm eager to do so.....

Thanks for posting the details of your experience as it's precisely that kind of entry that we all benefit from. One of several reasons I chose to migrate to Ubuntu Linux was the challenge & learning opportunity it presents. Since with all due modesty I have a full understanding & years of experience as a designer/ developer in Windows & OS X I am more than ready for a new OS. Thus I welcome all that comes with focusing on becoming proficient with Ubuntu, which in turn will provide me with the ability & enjoyment of helping others.

BlackBerry by RIM...
Simply Brilliant!

Cheers!
sent via: BlackBerry Curve

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Help with Installing Linux on T60 w/ Two Hard Drives

Help with Installing Linux on T60 w/ Two Hard Drives