Thinkpads Forum

Rahula wrote:I'm totally new to Linux, and would like to seek your guidance as to what version of Linux to install for my Thinkpad T23. My primary interest in Linux is that it does not attract virus like the Windows XP home on my T23. I do a lot of educational research on the internet and also write/receive lots of emails.

That's great that you want to try it out, but be aware that you will have something of an adjustment period. Linux, though, is excellent at these things in my experience.

1. Ubuntu will do this out of the box. Others will as well, but you should get a distro on a LiveCD to make sure it works.

2. Every Linux distro I've ever used, with the exception of DSL, has Firefox installed or easy to get. Under Debian it's called Iceweasel though.

3. Get Thunderbird for Windows and import your e-mail and address books from Outlook Express into Thunderbird. When you install Linux you can copy the settings from your Windows edition of Thunderbird to the Linux one. This is the easiest way I know. (There is a feature in Ubuntu, I think, which scans your hard drive for users to import data from, but it's never worked for me.)

4. Any of the major distros ([K]Ubuntu, Fedora) will let you do this. It may require installing non-free plugins, though.

5. See above.

6. Since videos and sound files are just like ordinary files, I can't see that you would have any problem doing this on any distro.

7. I don't have a T23, but Linux hardware support is generally excellent for less-than-cutting-edge machines. If you need to use a built-in modem you might run into trouble.

Based on what you've said, I recommend Ubuntu or a derivative (I've never used Linux Mint but it has a good reputation). The main reason for this is that it really makes it easy to manage software, i. e. if you are looking at a YouTube video or a Flash game and you don't have the right plugin it will walk you through all the steps, for example.

I haven't used Fedora since... FC4 I think, so I can't vouch for its usability. Personally I like Debian and Gentoo, but Gentoo is definitely not for Windows users and Debian may involve just a little more detail work than you know how to do just yet.

At any rate, I suggest you check out the library / bookstore for Linux books before taking the plunge, and (above all) choose a distro that has a LiveCD so you can try before you commit to anything.

Most of your questions relate to individual packages as opposed to a whole Linux distro but, in general, I would probably recommend Ubuntu/Kubuntu. I consider it a Thinkpad-friendly distro and probably one the easiest distros for beginners. PCLinuxOS has been getting good reviews, too, and its goal is ease of use.

Rahula wrote: 4. To be able to view news videos from mainstream news websites, such as: CNN, BBC, plus youtube

5. Ability to receive audio streaming from web radio stations.

6. Ability to save videos and audio files from the internet for later use.

Ubuntu (along with others) has Flash support, and Mplayer of VLC will play pretty much anything. I've also used both to capture streaming videos of lectures from classes and save them for later. Mint is another distro you may want to consider. It's based on Ubuntu and includes plugins for most media formats.

Rahula wrote: 1. A linux that can painlessly connect to my built-in wireless, Intel a/b/g.

7. Hopefully, a Linux package that has all the drivers needed to run the hardware in the T23 without having to hunt for them.

Drivers are probably the number one issue people have with Linux, particular graphics and wireless. Ubuntu is pretty good at being Thinkpad-friendly with minimal configuration. You're not going to find every single driver in one easy location (like System Update in Windows), and you'll probably have to get your hands dirty with the command line (which is a good thing!). I'd start by looking at thinkwiki; it's specifically about running Linux on Thinkpads.

A few other things to consider:

Package Management
How you install programs in Linux is quite different than in Windows and not package managers are created equal. Synaptic/Ubuntu is arguably one of the better pieces of software; openSuSE's YaST in verstion 11.0 is a vast improvement over previous versions. YaST is also a really good sys. admin. tool (managing network connections, security, hardware, etc.). Personally, I prefer pacman in Arch Linux, but you probably don't want to start out with Arch.

Support
Since there is no 24 hour tech. support you have to look to the internet for help. Ubuntu has a large following, there is a lot of activity in the forums, and any problem you're having has probably been addressed. SuSE's forums are good, too. In general, the major distos (say, rank 15 and above on Distrowatch.com) have pretty good online forums/wikis that are accessible to a beginner.

Desktop Manager
This can bring a heated debate, which I don't intend to start. A DM is simply your graphical interface with Linux. There are a number of DMs (Fluxbox, Openbox, Xfce,...) but the two major ones are GNOME and KDE. Each comes with it own set of apps (e.g. file manager: Konqueror in KDE, Nautilus in GNOME). You're free to use KDE apps in GNOME and vice versa (although the look might not be as seamless). KDE tends to be a little more powerful/feature-rich while GNOME takes a simplicity approach. Both have pros and cons and you really just need to some research. The reason being is that your choice of DM may influence your choice of distro. For example, Ubuntu ships with GNOME while PCLinuxOS uses KDE. However, you do have options (you always have options in Linux ); you can install KDE on Ubuntu (but it may be a little flaky) or use Kubuntu (KDE version of Ubuntu). Likewise, PCLinuxOS has a GNOME version, but it's not officially supported.

Hope this helps!

Thank you both for your quick replies.

I downloaded the Xubuntu 8.04.1 ISO software and burned a CD with it. As suggested at the Xubuntu website, I tried the LiveCD method but it wouldn't work as T23 was unable to open up the ISO software. Also tried to boot with the F12 method at Startup of the T23 but it just ignored the CD and continued to boot up Windows XP instead.

Is there something else I need to download in order to open up the Xubuntu ISO? I also got an old CD with Ubuntu 4.10 i386 which has these folders:

.disk
dists
doc
install
isolinux
pics
pool
tools

I opened up each of these folders and clicked at all the likeliest files inside but to no avail.

Very daunting. Perhaps I should just stick to Windows XP.

You downloaded the ISO software? Meaning the ISO image?

How did you burn it to CD? It is not going to work if you just burned the ISO file onto the disc. You need to write the ISO as a CD image. Most CD burning software can handle this.

Also, when you burn it as an image, use a slow speed and good media. A lot problems with ISOs end up just being a bad burn (either too fast or crappy CDs).

You're both right. Following your suggestions, I burned the ISO image on a new CD as an image, rather than as a data CD, which was my earlier mistake. After some fumbling I managed to install Xubuntu. It even automatically directed me to install Xubuntu on the second partition, thus making my T23 into dual booting with Windows XP. Those Linux gurus are truly amazing.

Another pleasant surprise, the wireless connected flawlessly; despite the wireless nightmares that I previously read about in the Linux Forums. This Xubuntu package has all the basics that I need; Firefox browser, Thunderbird email client plus media player for video and audio.

Now, what I needs is to hunt for the Xubuntu apps for:

1. equivalent of MS Power Point
2. A DVD movie player

Thank you folks for your help!

Look at VLC for DVD playing, or mplayer, and OpenOffice office suite for an Office replacement. (Basically MS Office without Outlook, which sucks anyways )

OpenOffice is probably already installed, if not go here and get it. Save it to the desktop. Double click it to install with package manager.
To get VLC open the package manager and search for VLC, Look through the results and find the VLC player. Mark it for installation and apply.

I have been enjoying the Xubuntu 8.04 which I installed on my T23 a few days ago, but there are a few problems, and I don't know whether they are because of Xubuntu or the T23 aging hardware.

1. The microphone and/or speakers sometimes do not work, and I need to restart the machine to make them work. Is it the case that certain apps don't have sound working in Linux on T23? Or do I need to install a special microphone/speakers driver in my T23 in order to make those Linux apps work?

2. Compared to XP Home which is dual-installed on the same T23, the Linux apps seem a bit sluggish, not alarmingly slow, but takes a few more seconds to load up a song to play, or much longer to load up a video, say at the Universal Studios website to see their trailers. I'm sitting at the same desk at the same distance from my router, but XP booted on the same T23 seems to load streaming videos and all web pages much faster. Is there some "tweaking" to speed up the Xubuntu?

3. Is there a way to import/export emails in bulk between Linux Thunderbird and Outlook Express? At present I have to save each and every email from Linux Thunderbird into eml format in order to export them to Outlook Express, and vice versa. As I would like to make a complete switch to Linux, this would take considerable time to drag the thousands of emails from OE to Tbird.

4. Is there a way to create an application shortcut to sit on the Quick-Launch bar at the top border of the screen?

5. When viewing Firefox web pages, I cannot flip back to the previous page by just pressing the Backspace button. Is there a way to configure this backspace or any button to flip back?

Alternatively, if there is another version of Linux that can accommodate these problems or quirks of my T23, I am prepared to change accordingly.

I would appreciate your opinions and guidance. Thanks.

4. Is there a way to create an application shortcut to sit on the Quick-Launch bar at the top border of the screen?

Not completely sure about this but try right-clicking on the bar. There may be an option like "Add application"...but I may be thinking of KDE. You could also try creating a link on the desktop and then dragging it to the bar.

5. When viewing Firefox web pages, I cannot flip back to the previous page by just pressing the Backspace button. Is there a way to configure this backspace or any button to flip back?

Type "about:config" into the location bar
Search for "backspace"
Change the value to 0

Not sure about the other issues.

Superego

Superego:
Thanks for your quick reply - the tip for backspace works, but the shortcut didn't.

Oh, the things one learns! Backspace to go back a page; what'll they think of next . . . ? [Honest, this is brand new to me. I always used Alt + Arrow.]

As for shortcuts in the taskbar, isn't it just a right-click, "Add to panel", Custom Application Launcher (or Application Launcher, if it's already in your application menu)? I could be wrong, being quite new to this myself . . .

As for OE to TB, I thought it was quite simply a matter of importing the OE profile into TB . . . But I've been using TB for so long I don't quite remember how I got my Outlook data transferred over. I do know that I didn't copy each individual message, though!!! As I remember, finding the OE data was the hardest part . . . Google will surely help with this.

I am using the Fedora on T40p and except solving the problem with touchpad (wasn't able to recognize the tap as click, but after downloading the synaptics package and modify of xorg.conf it's ok) I am quite happy with it. For the ThinkPad owners with ATI cards is better to use Fedora Core 8 cause for Fedora Core 9 there are not ATI proprietary drivers yet. OR wait for Fedora 10, should be launched aprox. in one month.

Beaver wrote:I am using the Fedora on T40p and except solving the problem with touchpad (wasn't able to recognize the tap as click, but after downloading the synaptics package and modify of xorg.conf it's ok) I am quite happy with it. For the ThinkPad owners with ATI cards is better to use Fedora Core 8 cause for Fedora Core 9 there are not ATI proprietary drivers yet. OR wait for Fedora 10, should be launched aprox. in one month.

Well on the older T4X series you're probably better off with the open source driver available in F9 I know I am with my current T43 from work.

With working XGL ?

So... what's the vote? Ubuntu, DSL, Puppy, Mint?

My kid's school is driving me mad... They purchased a $%&/ MS license for the state. Anyhow, I got them hung-up on OpenOffice, Firefox and Thunderbird on their XP machinery, that causes all kinds of trouble on a daily basis.

Perfect would be a world that allows to connect with MSN. Otherwise I have no chance, if you know what I mean... same for the mobile stuff (phone, MP3). I could live with a "shell" that boots XP for this and games.

OS X is not the answer.

Mass deployment or if the hardware isn't BRAND new as in the latest and greatest, I'd say Debian or CentOS. It'll do everything they need and run forever.

In fact CentOS is the almost the same as Fedora but most likely for use on servers, because it's using only the nonBeta packages. With the Fedora you get more freedom to choice. But yes, if you want to have OS as stable as possible you can use CentOS as well.

Beaver wrote:In fact CentOS is the almost the same as Fedora but most likely for use on servers, because it's using only the nonBeta packages. With the Fedora you get more freedom to choice. But yes, if you want to have OS as stable as possible you can use CentOS as well.

The thing is for this kind of deployment, CentOS looks like a better choice than Fedora. Fedora is a testbed for development software, CentOS is based on Redhat, and is built to last. Fedora's EOL is a year, CentOS is 7 years...

Well, Fedora is based on RedHat as well, you can see it even when booting...

Beaver wrote:Well, Fedora is based on RedHat as well, you can see it even when booting...

Actually, now RedHat is based on Fedora. RHEL 5 is based off of Fedora Core 6. Though the first Fedora release was built upon old RedHat. Fedora is not something I'd recommend to people who don't like to tinker, and who don't like to reinstall their OS. It's my favorite, primary weapon of choice, but I really see something more lasting being a better solution here.

I've tried Mint. Looks ok but appears to be "difficult" with WLAN and other extensiuons.

Same with Fedora as well. I agree on the "tinker" statement...

Least painfull was Ubuntu so far IMHO. Localizes easily (language) and I was up and running with WLAN, Firefox, Thunderbird, OO pretty quickly. Appears to become difficult with "Windows compatibility" requirements and games.

So what's the vote on Ubuntu... anything better?

mgw wrote: Appears to become difficult with "Windows compatibility" requirements and games.

What do you mean by "difficult"? I haven't come across a distro yet that works well with Windows games or programs (and I don't expect to). Wine is okay with certain apps, (I got Civ IV and Dreamweaver to run, but that was a lot of work) but I think it's better to find a Linux alternative or use Windows in a Virtual machiine or dual-boot setup.

mgw wrote:So what's the vote on Ubuntu... anything better?

What do you mean by better?

Yeah, it's all subjective. What is better for you is not better for the next guy/gal.
Mint is slightly modified Ubuntu. The wireless should be no more difficult in either one of them.

Downloaded Ubuntu 8.10 last evening. Installation on a seperate HDD took about 30 min. Package downloads another 30 min. Painless setup of WLAN. I like the Evolution email... slick compared with Thunderbird. Localization works well. So far...

whizkid wrote:

mgw wrote:So what's the vote on Ubuntu... anything better?

What do you mean by better?

Fair enough - "user friendly" like in painless installation and does things "out of the box".

Superego wrote:

mgw wrote: Appears to become difficult with "Windows compatibility" requirements and games.

What do you mean by "difficult"? I haven't come across a distro yet that works well with Windows games or programs (and I don't expect to). Wine is okay with certain apps, (I got Civ IV and Dreamweaver to run, but that was a lot of work) but I think it's better to find a Linux alternative or use Windows in a Virtual machiine or dual-boot setup.

I guess, you already provide the answer - so virtual machine that is... any suggestion highly welcome.

VirtualBox is my preferred piece of software for VMs. It's free and runs pretty fast. There are 2 versions of VirtualBox - an open-source version and binary version. The biggest difference is that the open-source version does not have usb support, the binary version does. You can either google it or Ubuntu probably has it in Synaptic.

A warning about games: In general, VMs won't be able to run games that us OpenGL/3D acceleration. I say in general because there are some projects out there working on it but I don't know the status of them. The VM sees a virtual graphics card and not the actual hardware, and so it only provides VESA/VGA support.

Rahula wrote:I'm totally new to Linux, and would like to seek your guidance as to what version of Linux to install for my Thinkpad T23. My primary interest in Linux is that it does not attract virus like the Windows XP home on my T23. I do a lot of educational research on the internet and also write/receive lots of emails. Since Linux has so many versions, each with its strengths over another, I thought if I list below my "needs" it might help zero in on the likeliest Linux version for my T23:

1. A linux that can painlessly connect to my built-in wireless, Intel a/b/g.

I will be most grateful if you, experienced Linux users, can help me.

I have used many distros (don't know much about typing in commands...), and linux in general is hit and miss with wireless connection. One option is to make sure the distro you want to try works with the wireless card in your TP first.

I have 4 wireless PCMCIA cards and 2 of them, no linux distros work, the other 2, some distro will work... It is pain but I have most difficulty getting the internet working due to incompatibility of the wireless cards.

gychang