Thinkpads Forum

Hi all,
I´m a very disappointed user of M$ Windows both XP and Vista (for those who have read my thread, it´s mainly because of the autocomplete feature malfunction in run window ), so I decided to convert (at least for a while) to Linux. I have TP Z61p that is virtually the same as T60p. What I actually need would be some recommendations for a distro that would suit to my needs and preferences as well as some links to good guides on Linux basics (installing Linux, setting it up, installing programs, working with command line etc.), as I really have no idea of Linux. But I´m very open-minded user and have never had angst from learning new things (basically that´s all I do ). Now seriously onto the matter: what I would need would be:

1. x64 platform since I use some apps like Matlab with native 64bit support (for performance). Futhermore, I will probably have to start learning how to program with C or C++ next year (for computational purposes), but I guess that´s another topic...

2. I would like to have a desktop GUI with a bunch of spectacular OpenGL effects (like Vista + OS-X, but more ) just to show off and to make some use of my FireGL

3. I will most likely need a virtual machine with XP or Vista loaded to run things like Adobe Creative Suite and Office 2007 (which I´m addicted to...) (I don´t like OpenOffice and I´m not very sure how it would be with LotusSymphony under Linux )

4. and last but not least with support for software RAID 0 (I beg this would add some performance to the VM). I know, I have lost my mind wanting to run RAID in a laptop, but I simply like experimenting with things, so please bear with me (I guess Linux doesn´t have the "dynamic disk" limitations of windows since dynamic volumes is just a concept of M$).

Thanks in advance

Marin

EDIT: And yes, preferably, I´d like to keep my wireless, blueteeth and so on

I'd recommend Ubuntu because it usually just works, with all the hardware. There is a 64-bit version, however in the past this version has had more hassle (trouble installing Flash for example). Supposedly they've fixed these issues with 8.04 now.

Compiz GUI effects are enabled by default, and the ATI drivers needed should be easy to install (it should show a prompt asking you to).

There are a few ways to go about setting up virtual machines, basically a bunch of different programs for doing so. KVM is the fastest program since it uses the Intel VT features, but I'm not sure how easy it is to set up. There is also plain QEMU (without KVM it's slow), which might be easier.

RAID is possible, but I'd think that there isn't an easy setup program for it like for most things.

Download and test drive Linux Mint (built on Ubuntu), it comes with flash and DVD and mp3 support already installed and ready to go. I also highly recommend PCLinuxOS, a very clean and very easy to use OS, I've had VERY good luck getting wireless going immediately out of box with both of these. You may need to have wired connection for about 5 minutes just to DL drivers, but then you'll be ready to go.

Good Luck.

Thanks for your input! I appreciate it very much! Now, what I need, would be a few links to guides on Linux basics. In the mean time I´ll google a bit around.

Marin

Try not to think of Linux as learning a new language (although technically its true). Especially with the two I gave links to (and perhaps PC-BSD), things are fairly straight forward. Its more or less like rearranging your living room with new furniture. Most everything can be done through the graphic interface (windows) and most of the apps are recognizable and function the same way. Double click, right clicks. Just run the OS from LiveCDs and familiarize yourself with where everything is located, and what some of the names of the useful applications are... ie: OpenOffice for Microsoft Office, Firefox, Pidgin (Instant Messenger), VLC, Kaffeine, MPlayer for movies, Amarok or Exaile for music.

If you run into a problem, ask. Most of everything you need to set up hardware in PCLinuxOS is in the Control Center, which is a better organized version of Windows' Control Panel. You can set up networks, printers, power settings, everything here without needing a manual. In Linux Mint everything has a link under one of the menus, most likely Administration.

Frankly I think a guide would seem overwhelming to me, but just test driving a few burned discs is easy, and gives you a great feel of how things will work. But I would link to the forums of the OS you decide on, as well as Ubuntu's (since its huge and has several threads for other distributions). Also Google is your friend. When I was learning it last year, I'd run into a problem, and Google it or some VERY helpful souls at a forum would dig me out.

So to answer your question, don't worry about a guide. Dive in and orient yourself with the layout. If you can't find what you need, go here:
Linux Forums

Or to the distro's forum. My only other piece of advice is: familiarize yourself with Synaptic, it is the gateway to nearly all software you'll get. Its easy to use (like a search engine) and does everything for you.

If you've ever used a Mac, you've used something harder (in my opinion) than most 'user friendly' Linux OSes.

Good luck and let us know what you settle on, and what you think.

As mentioned above, I would recommend burning some Live CD's from one or more Linux distributions. You can boot the CD and have a running operating system with installed programs without installing anything to your hard drive. If you like what you see, then either install the Live CD to the hard drive or download and install the DVD with additional software. The DVD's will not run on their own like the Live CD's.

AFAIK, generally speaking if you install the Live CD you will get propriatary drivers and it may work better out of the box. One drawback of installing the Live CD is that it installs an image of itself to your hard drive. You do not get the choice of what software is actually installed.

When you install the DVD you should get a choice of what software to install. You may have to install some propriatary drivers by downloading after installing the DVD to get all your hardware working or to get more features. Most of the distros have a vast repository of software that you can download and install after the initial install with a minimum of fuss. Try and see what is available from the distro you chose before searching the internet for specific software.

This is my experience with Mandriva. I like Mandriva. I am currently using Mandriva 2008.1 Powerpack.

I was also impressed with the openSUSE 11.0 Live CD KDE 4. Unfortunately I do not have the hard drive space to install several Linux distros.

These days Linux is a lot like Windows so you shouldn't feel too lost. Most things can be done from the GUI without using the command line. The two main GUI's are KDE and Gnome. Each have their adherents. Personally I prefer KDE. Nevertheless you will likely need the command line from time to time to accomplish various tasks. At least you shouldn't need it at the beginning. This is the case with most of the mainstream distros. Some other distros do take a bit of geek to run (ones like gentoo and slackware).

I'd suggest Debian or Arch because they a) are well documented and b) will feed your desire to learn. They really are great first distributions. It is not difficult to install and configure X with Compiz-Fusion and nice effects with any popular distribution -- there's tons of howtos and everybody likes bling. Debian is especially easy to get working with virtualization, though you could always use something like VMWare, which will work with most anything.

But most importantly, as you work in MatLab and higher order programming like C, really take the opportunity to work on your Perl and, when you can, lower ordered programming, especially when you find yourself needing to quickly manipulate data sets. This will be valuable to you.

What don't you like about OpenOffice? Tried LaTeX?

I was doing some research myself when I found some place where the top two pointed out were

Ubuntu

and

Mandrake Mandriva

I'd like to see how your review pans out as well.

Hey,
thank you all for your replies! This was a very helpful start for me with Linux indeed and I really appreciate very much your input! Here are my first impressions and experiences with Linux so far as well as a few questions I came up with in the meantime
I´m very impressed with the overall look and feel of Linux, particularly Ubuntu 8.04 x64 and OpenSuse 11.0 KDE 4 x64 (I´m going to have a look at Linux Mint and Mandriva as well in the next couple of days). I was surprised how well they are organized in terms of GUI (I even asked myself why people pay for windows when they could have so nice organized OS for free ). Everything one needs is just there where it should be unlike windows where one has admin tools, control panel and so on and so on...you know what I mean
I decided to try out Ubuntu installed for now. I had no problems with installing it, it´s pretty straightforward, fast and GRUB seems to take care about the dual boot, so no problems here, either. I was also very positively surprised by the fact that Ubuntu worked out of the box with my TP But, frankly, I expected it to boot up a little bit faster since it´s Linux (well, it´s faster than windows at any case, but seems to me to be not as fast as maybe other Linux distros would be). Then I found out that this is a pretty common remark on the new 8.04 release. Also not a big problem.
However, the first run was not that flawless. After restarting from Ubuntu my ThinkPad didn´t boot up at all. I had to hard reboot by powering off my machine to get the boot menu of GRUB each time. I didn´t experience this issue when restarting from windows, it always reached the boot menu of GRUB. And then I did the stupid thing to wipe out the Linux partitions (using Acronis Disk Director) and easily forgot about GRUB Of course, as a consequence, my machine wouldn´t boot at all staying at GRUB Error 22, so I simply reinstalled Ubuntu keeping in mind that the new GRUB would overwrite the failure, and so it was. Surprisingly, I don´t experience anymore the above boot issue when rebooting from Ubuntu. Strange enough.
So, having now a fully functional dual boot Vista + Linux, I came across a few things:
1. How to set up e network connection (wireless or ethernet)? I´m aware of the network utility in admin but there is also a tray icon for network connections and they seemed to me to differ from each other. As to the wireless connection I put all necessary data in the boxes but no success with internet, so I assume the connection wasn´t successful. I think there is no issue with drivers or so since I can recognize all networks in the neighbourhood. As to ethernet, I plugged in the ethernet cable and tried both automatic and static ip config, but still no internet. So, probably, I´m missing something here
2. Is there any way to get the hotkey features and onscreen display working under Linux?
3. More general: how about power management under Linux? I saw it there, but how does it cope with TPs, are there any specific things I should be aware of regarding power management under Linux since I´m using a laptop?
4. How about Active Protection under Linux?
5. is there any way to make my Trackpoint usable under Linux?

@crashnburn: I read somewhere that Mandriva is a preferred distro for scientifical computations, but since my TP is not a supercomputer (although it´s a super computer for me ), I guess it doesn´t really matter.
@lightweight: My impression is also that there are a lot of guides to Debian resp. Debian-based distros and that it´s actually not complicated at all to set up VM or RAID Thanks also fir your piece of advice regarding program languages. As to LaTeX, MiKTeX is a must-have for me, but it doen´s substitute my Office 2007. I don´t like OpenOffice because editing documents (spreadsheets, presentations etc.) done in MS Office and vice versa are not always flawless. I hear a lot of people complaining about OpenOffice when receiving some documents from windows pr resp. linux users, edting them and sending them back, how they are formatted etc. But frankly I don´t have any experience with OpenOffice under Linux (I remember I tried it some time ago under XP, and I wasn´t very impressed with it). Also things may have changed a lot with newer releases.

Having said this, how about IBM LotusSymphony. AFAIK there is an edition for Linux, right. Someone tried it already? (I tried it out once under Vista, and it was not very fast, it´s written in Java if I remember correctly).Are there any good substitutes in Linux for Adobe Acrobat Pro?

@GomJabbar: Thanks for the overview! It was helpful for me. BTW, I don´t mind working with command line provided I know how to do it

Almost forgot to mention: I´m also very pleased with the fact that Ubuntu can recognize the NTFS partition of windows and can work with it

Cheers

Marin

1. How to set up e network connection (wireless or ethernet)?

You may need to go through the admin setup first and there may be an option like "Allow user control though kinternet" (that's for KDE, but there may be something similar for GNOME.

2. Is there any way to get the hotkey features and onscreen display working under Linux?

I'm a little surprised that isn't working in Ubuntu (it worked out of the box for me when I was using 7.04 and 7.10. Try checking out tpb (thinkpad button utility).

3. More general: how about power management under Linux?

In general, it's not going to be as nice as the power management untility in windows, but I'm pretty happy with the KDE utility kpowersave. You should check out thinkwiki for more info on things like setting thresholds and hibernation.

4. How about Active Protection under Linux?

Had it working when I was using Ubuntu 7.10; I've switched to openSuSE and haven't gotten around to messing with it yet. Thinkwiki is going to be your best for getting it working.

5. is there any way to make my Trackpoint usable under Linux?

Not quite sure what you mean...it should work out of the box. Are you talking about enabling some of the features (like double clicking with the trackpoint?) I'm able to tweak the sensitivity of my trackpoint but I haven't tried to do anything else as I don't really need any of the features. Again....poke around thinkwiki

I'm not sure I agree with your statement about Mandriva as a computation-based distro. I think a lot of people think that simply because it comes loaded with octave (language used for numerical computations) and Scilab (open source version of MATLAB). Both of these can easily be added to any Linux distro. I would argue something like Arch is better designed for scientific applications as it's very lightweight and fast....and simple. If that's what you're looking for you should consider Arch. Installing it is not like other distros (a GUI that walks you through) but the wiki on Arch's webpage gives you a pretty good step-by-step with the text-based installer.

You're going to love using LaTeX in Linux. MiKTeX is the Microsoft port of TeX and it takes forever to install. TeXLive is available in pretty every distro I've tried and it's dead-easy to install and use. Regarding OpenOffice, I tend to agree with you. It's a great open source office suite (it's definitely improved over the years) and while it can deal with MS formats (even the newer ones), I don't think it handles/formats them as nicely as I'd like. I still use it, but I also have a VM with WinXP on it and MS Office 2007. This is nice if I need to collaborate with non-Linux users who use MS Office.[/url]

reporting first success: The good news is that I finally got my internet connection working under Ubuntu as I'm now typing from it. The bad news is that I had to put back my old Intel PRO card instead of the Atheros one. The Atheros seemed to be working as it was able to recognize a whole bunch of networks, but unfortunately it couldn't establish any connection to the router. Is there any workaround for this?
Interestingly, the wifi light under the lcd works neither with the Atheros card nor with the Intel one under Ubuntu. Under windows I had it not working only with the Atheros one. Although I have no connectivity problems under Windows with the Atheros card, I'm beginning to ask myself if it's not faulty in some way... Anyway. I tried to check thinkwiki, but the page seems to be temporarily down. I hope it will be accessible again tomorrow.

Marin

Update: I have ignored a notification by Ubuntu concerning the Atheros card. It says that Ubuntu may not work with the proprietary driver for the Atheros card.

Don't worry about your card....it's the drivers, not the hardware that's causing the light to not work. I have the same issue with openSuSE 11.

So far, so good. I have internet, ThinkWiki is up again and I downloaded a few updates, including the latest driver from ATI so I could enable the advanced visual effects Now, Ubuntu feels like something between XP and Mac OS X (including boot times)
What should I do in order to adjust the speed and sensitivity of my trackpoint? I read about it in the thinkwiki and I guess I don`t have the driver for it. I found the code of the driver, so my second guess is I have to compile it somehow under Linux (this seems to not an unusual practice under Linux, right ). So, what should I do to get this working (I also found the commands for adjusting speed and sensitivity, so that isn`t anymore a question)?

Marin

EDIT: The above comment is non-sense I guess it´s because it was too late in the night, so I haven´t read very carefully. Of course, the trackpoint support is included in all newer kernels as a part of the mouse driver. So, all I needed to do was to install the GUI for adjusting the trackpoint

the light works with the 2.6.26 kernel but not the 2.6.24 that's in 8.04 and earlier. it really surprised me when I upgraded the kernel of my hardy installation on x61t to the intrepid kernel ... honestly I now find it kind of annoying, I think I liked it better when the led did not work ha.

I´m back and quite pleased with my Ubuntu 8.04 x86 install. I got compiz fusion working, I got my trackpoint adjusted, I got my internet connection working When one has a question regarding both ThinkPads and Linux, one has to read ThinkWiki. When one reads ThinkWiki, one has to read it carefully in order not to spam with non-sense questions. Apart from this, Ubuntu is really like Vista under the Linux distros. Almost everything works "out of the box" and in terms of efforts it´s not much different from getting familiar with e new windows release
Still, I´m about to find out how to utilize ndiswrapper as I want my Atheros card back in place. By now no success with it (according to thinkwiki using ndiswrapper seems to have a plenty of advantages over madwifi driver. For now I guess I´ll have to stay with my old Intel card.
There a few other things that bother me right now: Ubuntu 8.04 seems to be not that easy on the eyes as Vista. Although I set 120 dpi (like I have it in Vista), the fonts don´t look clear and smooth enough. I´m not sure if it´s up to the basic fonts ot the "pixelisation" of Gnome fonts. I have the same experience with KDE desktop as well. I guess it´s also because of my screen resolution (1920x1200) So, any hints will be greatly appreciated!
Also, compiz-fusion doesn´t run very smooth from time to time. Multitasking, i.e. opening multiple windows causes slow-downs in visual effects, which is not very nice, either. Maybe, it´s just the ATI proprietary driver that still can´t handle compiz in a satisfactory way.
Furthermore, I can´t use some of the keys of my keyboard. I have German keyboard and although I tried all German keyboard layouts during the setup, no one matches to the combinations alt+ctrl+ , which I need for those symbols |, @, ~, {[]}\. If someone is aware of a solution for this, it will be greatly appreciated as well.
As already mentioned, I had expected it to be capable of much faster boot times, but I guess either I´ll have to wait for Ubuntu 8.10 (I heard they´re now intensively working on decreasing boot times) or I´ll have to get another distro. Unfortunately, x64 doesn´t make any difference. A propo performance, I notices that even with compiz disabled there are from time to time slight slow-downs, some of them probably due to FF3. Also, app startup/ launching times is not as fast as expected (actually not much different from windows). I´m about to install Matlab 7.6 and I´ll try to install the full edition just to check how it would perform (but before I´ll have to increase the free space of the Linux partition ).
A side question: Does anyone have any experience with docks under Linux. I tried Cairo (and still have it installed), but it doesn´t run very smooth, either
May a small clarification: surely, most of you are wondering why I´m so interested in all these eyecandys and visual effects under linux. It´s because I heard once that it´s possible to run all this stuff under linux wihtout the slow-downs like in Vista even on a slightly slower computer. Since my ThinkPad is just a laptop and I have an OpenGL card, I thought that I could give it a try

@Superego: that thing about Mandriva wasn´t even a statement I have no idea how Mandriva looks or feels or performs. I have simply read about this on few sites including their homepage As to TexLive I´ll give it a try in the next couple of days.

Next thing in my ToDo is VM. I consider three possibilities: very vLited Vista, Server 2008 or XP, resp. nLited XP. This will go for the sake of experimenting If I have success with this, I´ll move onto Ubuntu x64 for memory utilization.
As to RAID, I actually found a few nice guides on howto, and from what I´ve seen installing Software RAID under Ubuntu is pretty straightforward and not that complicated at all. A friend of mine has installed software RAID under Linux on a desktop machine with pretty lower specs than my TP´s and the result was surprising: one doesn´t even notice the increased cpu utilization and the performance gain was also remarkable "as though he had bought a new machine" So, I´m pretty optimistic and willing to implement it in my TP and also curious how a VM installed windows would perform in such an environment.

Thanks again all for your inputs so far! It was very helpful and enjoyable

Marin

Glad to hear things are going well. Sorry I can't help out with the German keyboard.

Regarding docks, try AWN (Avant Window Navigator). I've had good success with that. It only runs in Compiz, though (which is probably fine since it sounds like you're using Compiz). I think you can probably get it through Synaptic by now. If you're looking for some more eye candy try looking at these sites:

http://www.gnome-look.org
http://www.kde-look.org

They have some pretty good stuff. Also, I run MATLAB under openSuSE and it works great.

Superego wrote: Regarding docks, try AWN (Avant Window Navigator). I've had good success with that. It only runs in Compiz, though (which is probably fine since it sounds like you're using Compiz).

Wrong.

It works under any Window Manager that has compositing enabled.

(Openbox with xcompmgr, metacity with compositing enabled, xfwm with compositing enabled)

Marin85 wrote:There a few other things that bother me right now: Ubuntu 8.04 seems to be not that easy on the eyes as Vista. Although I set 120 dpi (like I have it in Vista), the fonts don´t look clear and smooth enough. I´m not sure if it´s up to the basic fonts ot the "pixelisation" of Gnome fonts. I have the same experience with KDE desktop as well. I guess it´s also because of my screen resolution (1920x1200) So, any hints will be greatly appreciated!

Gnome: System > Preferences > Appearance > Fonts. Under rendering, select the one that looks the best to you. You can select "Details..." to get a better selection list.

KDE 3: K Menu > System Settings > Appearance > Fonts.
Enable anti-aliasing. Press configure. How strong the hinting is to be can be selected here under "Hinting style". I found that the default font doesn't look the best imho, so feel free to change it.

Good luck!

Thanks for your reply, but I´ve already tried each one of those options (in Gnome) and none of them really provides the font quality I´d like to have Anyway, I guess it´s just a matter of habit of getting used to it

Marin