Thinkpads Forum

Why do all of the Laptop manufactures sell the notebooks with OS if there are lots of people who are even not using Windows? Why it is a must when you're choosing the configurations online? Why are we overpaying for it? If the company wants to sell the laptops better and faster why don't they make the OS optional? I simply do not understand it. Do they have any laws?

Acer of Moscow City just started selling the laptops with Linux and with Windows the price is so different.

Does anybody know how much does Lenovo pay for each license of regular Win7 Home edition?

Whether we like it or not, majority of users expect Windows loaded on their PC. How the world got to that point is a matter for a whole another discussion - or a dozen of them - but that is a fact of life.

Lenovo was offering ThinkPads with Linux for a while, but the demand was obviously less than sufficient...so they don't do it any more.

The way I look at it, I'm buying a piece of hardware. If the price seems OK, I'll go for it and then load whatever software I feel like...

when we buy a TV it is up to us to make a decision which cable company to choose.

Sinbad wrote:Why do all of the Laptop manufactures sell the notebooks with OS if there are lots of people who are even not using Windows?

Answer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly.

In the past Microsoft offered rebates to OEMs that supplied Windows and only Windows for their hardware. As most people are going to use Windows, it makes since for a vendor to agree to Microsoft's terms. They would have to pay more for a Windows license in order to offer the customer a choice. I say "in the past" because I'm not sure of the current situation. Most of the OEM/MS deals were confidential (under the guise of "trade secrets"), and while I'm sure the practice remains I would guess that some things have changed (mostly based on the fact that we have seen more vendors offer Linux on a limited basis).

That being said it is possible to receive a refund Ifor not using Windows. Microsoft's EULA states:

“If you do not agree to the terms of this EULA, you may not use or copy the SOFTWARE, and you should promptly contact Manufacturer for instructions on return of the unused product(s) for a refund in accordance with Manufacturer’s return policies.”

If you do some googling you'll find cases of individuals who have refused the EULA and received a refund. Most of the time it involves a fair amount of time and effort (as the "Manufacturer's return policies" can be difficult to work around) and usually results in only a partial refund.

I agree that the situation sucks, but when it comes to getting a laptop I'm a little stuck. It's not like I can piece together a laptop they way I can with a desktop and then go with either Linux or an OEM copy of Windows.

I'm not certain what the circumstances would be (but I'm assuming a pretty large order) but it is possible to get a ThinkPad without Windows installed.

I had a new-in-the-box T400 last year that had only DOS loaded, there was no Windows COA and the Lenovo website showed "DOS license" under the configuration for that model number. I'll see if I have the model number recorded here somewhere.

It was a kind of odd configuration in a couple of other ways, it only had 256mb ram, a 40gb hard drive, no optical drive (if I remember correctly) but four years of on-site warranty.

smidgley wrote:I'm not certain what the circumstances would be (but I'm assuming a pretty large order) but it is possible to get a ThinkPad without Windows installed.

I had a new-in-the-box T400 last year that had only DOS loaded, there was no Windows COA and the Lenovo website showed "DOS license" under the configuration for that model number. I'll see if I have the model number recorded here somewhere.

It was a kind of odd configuration in a couple of other ways, it only had 256mb ram, a 40gb hard drive, no optical drive (if I remember correctly) but four years of on-site warranty.

Smidgley did you save money that way?

I think that's a pretty brilliant idea. What kind of COA sticker was affixed to the bottom?

ThinkPads were always available to large corporate customers with no OS installed.

You're looking at a four-digit number to begin with, and it doesn't start with 1...

emeraldgirl08 wrote:
Smidgley did you save money that way?

I think that's a pretty brilliant idea. What kind of COA sticker was affixed to the bottom?

It seemed like a really good deal until I added up the memory, hard drive and optical drive upgrades, then it was just OK. Add in the cost of an XP COA and it was about the same as any T400 with a similar configuration.

It had no COA at all.

I was in the market for a Thinkpad today. I just found out in this old thread that I can't buy one without paying for a worthless windows license.

So I'll be shopping elsewhere. Voting with my wallet. Maybe someday Lenovo will come around when enough customers like me buy something else.

Oh man a necro-ed thread.

But I'd like to know what you end up getting.

Just a couple weeks ago, Dell had a Vostro 2520 with Ubuntu on sale for $299, but I can't find it any more. Right now, it seems that the only Ubuntu laptop available on dell.com is the XPS 13. On Newegg, the only Linux laptops listed are the Acer Aspire V5-131-2887 and the Asus 1015E-DS03. Of these, only the Vostro is business-class.

In conclusion, if you want to boycott Microsoft, you limit yourself to a very small selection of laptops.

ASUS X201E is available with Ubuntu. I imagine it is the same design+build as VivoBook X202E, but no-touch-screen and Celeron instead of Core.

pianowizard wrote:In conclusion, if you want to boycott Microsoft, you limit yourself to a very small selection of laptops.

If I recall correctly, when Lenovo was selling DOS ThinkPads, they were more expensive than the base Windows machines.

There is also System76 and ZaReason if you really want to vote with your wallet.

Written on my Galaxy Note 10.1

My thinkpad was bought without windows (it said something about Dos) . This was on lapstars.de and I guess it was only for students. It was cheaper yes, I guess 150eur for the same configuration.

My Dell Inspiron 1300 (Celeron M 1.4, i915, originally 256M DDR2, 40GB IDE) was bought new 7 years ago (for mom, i got it a few years ago when she upgraded) and it came with FreeDOS

I searched back then for a laptop without OS, even though it was for mom and she uses Windows, i did not want to pay extra for OS when i can use Windows 2000 i allready have (it was laying unused since i upgraded my desktop to Gentoo). When the laptop became mine i reinstalled it to Arch, later i also upgraded it to 1024M ram

When i bought it it was from a clearance - the last one of the lot, as the sales guy told me the lot was delivered by mistake and they did not order computers without Windows. Anyway, back then it was just what i wanted for a great price. This laptop sill works well for me to this day

I'm fine with second hand hardware (i actually like to give new life to old hardware, and every time its phenomenal how capable it is with some proper maintenance) so i dont appear to pay for Windows i dont use, but i do see the issue



But actually i see also a couple issues for users who DO want the Windows, and dont get the full value for their price

1
See my story with the Dell above ? I did hav a Windows 2000 on my desktop, then i wiped it, and couple years later i could take it and install on the Dell instead. Its equally as legit as moving a memory module from 1 computer to another

But OEM windows does not allow you to do that. If i would want to move the Windows from the laptop to the desktop, i would have to buy another license for the desktop allthough i have an unused one laying around. Is this the sorta stuff i paid for and it still claims what i can and cant do with it ?

2
The recovery partition stuff (ThinkVantage etc) work using some proprietary bootloader config. Now assume a novice Linux user installing in dual boot some Linux that was recommended to him. The Linux detects the Windows and installs Syslinux or Grub on the MBR

Everything works well untill the Windows dies, user tries to get into the recovrey and discovers that he can't. Then its the Linux that damaged it, not the fact that he was supplied with a computer without a recovery CD. A non OEM Windows, which comes with CD, would allow the user to reinstall the Windos straightforward independent of what other OS he have in dual boot

Now, assume you could get the OEM CD for your laptop (intended for the case of recovery after hard drive replacement). And you try to use it to resolve this. Will it wipe the Linux alltogether and return to the factory condition - Windows on the entire drive ?

kangaskhan wrote:Oh man a necro-ed thread.

But I'd like to know what you end up getting.

As would I. The links to the New Egg offerings:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6834314115

No reviews?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6834231067

I'm not a fan of System 76 myself. The Dell Sputnik, IMHO, is grossly overpriced for what it is.