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T42, Ultrabay Slim and Hitachi Travelstar 7K200-200

T4x series specific matters only
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mat1458
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T42, Ultrabay Slim and Hitachi Travelstar 7K200-200

#1 Post by mat1458 » Fri May 30, 2008 7:12 am

Does anybody have an idea if there is a possibility to use the Hitachi Travelstar 7K200-200 in Ultrabay Slim? Is there any connector that I can use between the disk and the 40-pin interface?

Thanks for suggestions.
Mat

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#2 Post by SHoTTa35 » Fri May 30, 2008 8:13 am

you'd need the SATA version (T6x ultrabay) in order to use the 7K200. I don't think there's a IDE version. I'm not sure however that you can use the T6x version in the T4x body. I know there's a extra plug, on those.
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#3 Post by richk » Fri May 30, 2008 9:05 am

If you buy the IBM/Lenovo SATA adapter, there is a pin on the back that needs to be ground down. The aftermarket Ultrabay Slim SATA adapters (available on eBay) work fine without modification. I use one all the time.

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#4 Post by mat1458 » Fri May 30, 2008 12:54 pm

Thanks SHoTTa35 and rick, that's far more information than I expected. I'll have a look on ebay.

Regards and niche weekend
Mat

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#5 Post by Scoob » Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:48 am

richk wrote:If you buy the IBM/Lenovo SATA adapter, there is a pin on the back that needs to be ground down. The aftermarket Ultrabay Slim SATA adapters (available on eBay) work fine without modification. I use one all the time.
I'm confused... the OP says he has a T42 in his subject line.

ThinkWiki says the SATA caddy will only work on the T6x, R6x, X6x, and Z6x series.

What's this pin about? Is it the magic that makes SATA work in a T4x UB?
Last edited by Scoob on Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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#6 Post by Brad » Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:14 am

The pin is for fitment. It is not anything electronic.

The connector inside the ThinkPad is the same on both series. The pin gets in the way and needs to be removed.

Since the adapter will fit in the T4x UB and a SATA drive fits the adapter there you have it....a SATA drive in a T4x.

I hope this clears up the confusion. Or, am I confused?

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#7 Post by Harryc » Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:30 am

richk, do you use it in a T41 or T42? I thought this would only work in a T43 because it has a PATA/SATA bridge.

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#8 Post by mat1458 » Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:23 am

Just to clear up the situation:

As richk proposed I have ordered a non-Lenovo UltraBay 2nd HDD adapter via eBay. With my 200GB drive I use it in my T42 and it works perfectly.

The PIN layout of the 200GB drive is different than the PINs of the older Travelstar drives up to 80 GB so that's why I needed the new UltraBay 2nd HDD adapter. The connector towards the T42 is absolutely the same as with the old Lenovo/IBM UltraBay 2nd HDD adapter.

Thanks again to richk for his ideas.
Mat

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#9 Post by Johan » Fri Jun 06, 2008 3:08 am

@ Mat:

Very interesting issue! The way I understand your explanation (and please correct me if I got this wrong?), is that you actually succesfully made a Hitachi 7k200 (200 GB) SATA HDD work in a SATA UltraBay in a T42?! If so, it would be useful if you would be kind to provide a link to the specific UltraBay you bought via eBay - thanks in advance! Also: Did you need to modify any pins of the UltraBay you use? If so, how/what?

PS: I recall a related discussion earlier, about using a SATA HDD (not ATA/PATA, but yes: SATA) in the UltraBay in a T43; if you see the thread:

[quote="FS: Mint T43p 2668-H1U 15" UXGA where Johan (in the post of Sat Aug 11, 2007 6:05 pm)"]About usable Ultrabay-storage in T43’s:

An interesting discussion is found in thread 2nd hard drive in slim bay question which points to T43p - SATA or ATA Ultrabay choice where you in the post of Fri May 11, 2007 6:11 pm read:
krondor wrote:I have T43p 2668-H8G as well as T60 1951-A47. T60 uses only SATA HDD drives in its ultra bay.

I'm running Hitachi 100 Gig HTS541010G9SA00 serial ATA drive mounted in the T60 ultrabay with my T43p. No problem so far.

The T60 ultrabay has an extra plastic 'pin' on its outer connector side. Besides that detail the outer connector of the T60 ultrabay is electricly identical to the one used for T43p ultrabay. Removing the plastic pin on the back allows usage T60 serial ATA ultrabay adaptor in my T43p.
This means that you could use a Hitachi 7200 rpm 100 GB ATA drive in the T43 as the bootable drive (mounted as the normal HDD), and use the new Hitachi 7200 rpm 200 GB SATA in a T60 SATA ultrabay in a T43p! This is actually reported in thread UltraBay Slim on T61p - Is it same as T43p? (see the post of Sun Jul 29, 2007 6:14 pm):
paulyosh wrote:... There's a thread on the forums here, I think in the T4x section, where it was suggested that the T6x SATA adapter could be used in a T43, if only that rear tab was removed. A brave soul tried it, and it worked! I've done the same now, and am using the new Hitachi 200gb 7200rpm drive in the T6x/SATA adapter in my T43p. I'm not ready to move to a T6x machine yet, so this is a lifesaver!
[/quote]
Johan
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#10 Post by aaa » Fri Jun 06, 2008 9:26 am

I was wondering why the laptop having SATA or not had anything to do with the Ultrabay. The Ultrabay interface is a PATA interface on all laptops, including the newer ones. So the Ultrabay SATA adapter has to convert to PATA, and this would allow any Ultrabay Slim laptop to use SATA.

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#11 Post by richk » Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:13 am

The ultrabay is pata (even in T61) The adapter contains a PATA->SATA bridge. I'm typing this message on a T61 with a SATA drive in the ultrabay. A half hour ago, I pulled out a PATA drive (from a different caddy) and replaced it with the other one.

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#12 Post by Marc_G » Fri Jun 06, 2008 4:51 pm

In a related manner, is there ANY way to make the 200GB SATA drive work as the primary drive in a T42P?

I goofed mightily and ordered a pair of 7K200-200 (HTS722020K9SA00) for mine and a colleague's T42Ps. We're out of space and need bigger HDs (we prefer not to use UltraBay drives, long story). Yes, I'm stupid. Very stupid. Forgot about the SATA/ PATA-IDE difference.

I'm assuming I'm hosed but thought I'd check here for confirmation.

Presuming so, what's the biggest/fastest drive that does fit the T42P?

Marc
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#13 Post by Johan » Fri Jun 06, 2008 5:12 pm

Marc_G wrote:... what's the biggest/fastest drive that does fit the T42P?
Since (as mentioned above) 2.5" 7200 rpm ATA HDD's are hard (or almost even impossible?) to get hold of, and furthermore "only" came with capacities up to 100 GB, you may want to get one of the newest 5400 rpm's; there are reports on this forum claiming that 5400 rpm 250 GB Western Digital PATA HDD's appear faster than 7200 rpm Hitachi; check the thread fastest/largest disk i can get for T42P ? (see the post by awolfe63 of Sat May 24, 2008 3:52 am). The 5400 rpm's are probably slightly less noisy compared to 7200 rpm HDD's, but the latter are actually so low-noise also, that this issue is not of any practical importance unles you are really, really picky about getting a no-noise ThinkPad!

If you indeed choose go the 5400 rpm Western Digital route, it would be highly interesting to hear your comments about its speed (how you sense it as a user, and not necessarily with a lot of this-and-tat measured Mbit/s performance measurements).

Johan
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#14 Post by Marc_G » Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:34 pm

Thanks Johan,

I will review the thread and if it seems the thing to do, will order the 5400 RPM 250 GB WD drive.

I feel SO STUPID about my SATA drive order. I can probably send the unopened one back but I think I've "bought" the one whose bag I opened. Sigh. I'll just get an enclosure and have another pocket drive, I guess.

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#15 Post by Marc_G » Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:13 pm

OK, I ordered a pair of the WD 250 GB 5400 RPM drives. Hopefully the reports that they are pretty fast in practical use are accurate. In a week or so I'll plan to report back. I'll likely get the drives on Tuesday and install during a trip I'm taking W-F next week.

By early the following week I should have subjective info. I'm not going to bother running benchmarks. If it feels fast, it's fast...

Marc
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#16 Post by mat1458 » Sun Jun 08, 2008 4:32 am

@Johan:

The adapter I bought was described as IBM 40Y8725 SATA HDD Adapter T/42/T60/T61 Ultrabay Slim in Ebay.

Looking at it there is a description saying SATA 1.5Gb/s, and FRU/N 26R9246 P/N 26R9247. It does not seem to have the sturdiness of old IBM gear but however, it worked without any tinkering or fiddling with the PINs.

HTH
mat

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#17 Post by Scoob » Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:59 pm

Marc_G - don't feel bad... happens to the best of us... taking one for the team here by posting your opinions of the new drive. :)

I hate to be a drag here, but I'm still confused; let me review what's been established:

1. Given the correct Ultrabay caddy, a SATA drive will work in a T4x.

2. There are two types of Ultrabay SATA caddys; one with an obtrusive pin and one without.

Which Ultrabay SATA caddy? According to richk, Two suspects:
1. The "IBM/Lenovo SATA adapter, there is a pin on the back that needs to be ground down".

2. So this must be different from "... aftermarket Ultrabay Slim SATA adapters (available on eBay)...", that, "...work fine without modification." That must be the one without the pin.

Mat:
You seem to have absorbed richk's and SHoTTa35's advice, fearlessly went over to ebay and now have the gear you needed, so I'll ask you: Who makes the aftermarket SATA caddy for Ultrabay Slim; one's that don't "have the sturdiness of old IBM gear"?

Is ThinkPad Serial ATA Hard Drive Bay Adapter Model 40Y8725 different from IBM 40Y8725 SATA HDD Adapter T/42/T60/T61 Ultrabay Slim?
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#18 Post by mat1458 » Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:57 am

@Scoob:

I do not really know who produces the caddies. Mine works and that's fine for me. It tries to look like IBM but from the way IBM gear looked before I have to assume that either Lenovo has decided to add some Chinese patina or it originates from a sweat shop in Kuala Lumpur.

However all the FRU/SNs are present, so it might be original. I found it in Ebay under the description "IBM 40Y8725 SATA HDD Adapter T/42/T60/T61 Ultrabay Slim".

HTH
mat

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#19 Post by Marc_G » Sat Jun 14, 2008 1:35 pm

Hi folks,

I've had the WD 250 GB 5400 RPM drive installed since Wednesday morning, and now have a pretty good handle on it's practical performance.

In a nutshell, for typical things like system boot, routine use of the computer etc. the performance is, at least subjectively, very much like the 100 GB 7200RPM Travelstar I had in there before. It's not noticeably sluggish or anything, nor does it seem faster.

For some HD-intensive tasks like copying files from one partition to another or defragging, it does seem a bit slower. But just a bit.

And now that my system partition has lots of extra space, it's not getting bound up and warning me about low space and spending time compressing things!

So I'm very happy with the drive and certainly recommend it.

Now... how do I get the system to go about UNCOMPRESSING all those files it compressed back when system drive space was limited?

OK, Google is my friend! :

[url]http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/libr ... ).aspx[url]
Marc
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#20 Post by prisoner2019 » Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:32 pm

Here is a question, will SATA 3.0Gb/s work with this method?

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SATA Ultrabay Drive for T41?

#21 Post by thinkaholic » Sun Jun 22, 2008 1:04 pm

Other posts have stated that these adapters will work in a T42. But Scoob interprets this to mean that it will work in any T4X.

[quote="Scoob"]

<<I hate to be a drag here, but I'm still confused; let me review what's been established:

1. Given the correct Ultrabay caddy, a SATA drive will work in a T4x.>>

If so, that would be a great way to add storage to my T41javascript:emoticon(':D')!

can anyone confirm to this newbie that if it works in a T42 it will work in any T4X??

TIA
Greg
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#22 Post by SkiBunny » Sat Aug 02, 2008 2:16 pm

One of the disadvantages of using the SATA ultrabay adapter (40Y8725) instead of the PATA (41U3148) one, apart from the fact that the PATA one fits all T4x and T6x models without having to grind hardware pins like for the SATA one, is that with the default T60p BIOS settings, you must reboot when switching between an IDE device (eg., DVD optical drive) and a SATA device in the ultrabay.

Also, it seems to me that the PATA ultrabay outperforms the SATA ultrabay for speed, even if the SATA is spinning at 7200 instead of 5400, because the SATA-PATA bridge slows everything down.

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#23 Post by SkiBunny » Sat Aug 02, 2008 2:25 pm

richk wrote:The ultrabay is pata (even in T61) The adapter contains a PATA->SATA bridge. I'm typing this message on a T61 with a SATA drive in the ultrabay. A half hour ago, I pulled out a PATA drive (from a different caddy) and replaced it with the other one.
Please clarify. Are you saying you successfully used a SATA drive with a PATA ultrabay adapter? (or used a PATA drive with a SATA ultrabay adapter?). Which machine type(s)? Thanks.

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#24 Post by schen » Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:12 pm

Hopefully this will clear up the topic:

1) All UltraBays regardless of whether they are UltraBay Slim (T4x, T6x on) or the UltraBay 2000 (A/X/T2x,T30) are IDE/PATA devices.
2) Any device (save batteries) that go into those slots must be a PATA device.
3) IBM/Lenovo and after-market manufacturers have created HDD adapters that were originally PATA (thus you simply take a PATA HDD of the correct height, put it in the adapter and it simply is a pass-through).
4) Subsequently, these manufacturers made adapters with a SATA to PATA bridge in them so that the newer HDDs could be used in the UltraBays. I believe there are even SATA versions of the older (12.7mm) UltraBay 2000 that the after-market has out there.

Therefore, you simply need to find the correct UltraBay adapter for your machine (UB Slim for T4x,T6x, R5x, R6x,or UB2K for T2x, A2x, A3x, X2x, X3x Media Slice), make sure it's for the correct type drive you want to use (either PATA or SATA).... and you're golden.

Nothing else is pertinent.
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#25 Post by richk » Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:43 pm

SATA drives work in T40/41/42/43 R50/51/52 machines with SATA Ultrabay caddies (originally designed for T60). The PATA-> SATA bridge circuitry is in the caddy. It works this way because the T60 has only a PATA connection in the ultrabay.

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#26 Post by agarza » Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:52 pm

So in any case, a plain SATA drive would work in T4x series.
That's great news. I'm sure you could have your main OS system installed on the Ultrabay and boot from there. Just have to modify the .ini file to indicate the boot loader where is the HDD located.

I'm planning to do a serious facelift to my T42p, new screen, new keyboard, new palmrest, new heatsink maybe starting 2009. And from there even get the newest 7K320 and run at full 16MB of cache.

After all it seems T4x laptops are the most popular here on the forums, just look at the quantity of replies here.
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#27 Post by SkiBunny » Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:39 am

xtr wrote:After all it seems T4x laptops are the most popular here on the forums, just look at the quantity of replies here.
That's probably because they were the thinnest & lightest in the 14-15" form factors, with power adequate even today for many folks' purposes.

But the X-files are still popular and very highly sought.

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#28 Post by SkiBunny » Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:44 am

xtr wrote:So in any case, a plain SATA drive would work in T4x series.
Yeah but in my experience, having both the genuine SATA and PATA drive adapters, the downsides of the SATA is having to reboot after inserting it (to get the drive recognized), and the SATA ultrabay slim adapter seemed slower than the PATA. Plus as others mentioned, the pin must be ground down to make the SATA caddie fit in a T4x (which arguably compromises the fit and hurts the resale of the caddie). I should also add that the SATA adapter flat bezel doesn't match the curved T4x shell, but that's purely cosmetic.

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#29 Post by Temetka » Sun Aug 03, 2008 6:45 am

SkiBunny wrote:
xtr wrote:After all it seems T4x laptops are the most popular here on the forums, just look at the quantity of replies here.
That's probably because they were the thinnest & lightest in the 14-15" form factors, with power adequate even today for many folks' purposes.

But the X-files are still popular and very highly sought.
That is very true.

The T4x line of machines are well known for the size / weight an performance ratios. Not to mention they are very easy to hack and upgrade and such make a perfect tinker / performance / portable workstation.

I love the for those reasons, and the wide variety of ultrabay adapter modules available for them as well.
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#30 Post by agarza » Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:17 am

Yep, so true. Albeit the flaws that these machine has GPU failures, flexes, it would be nice to have a T4x with a rollcage. Don't know if it makes any difference.

In the weight department newer T series are lighter than T4x models? I was also browsing the Z series forum and found out the Z61t is even lighter than the T4x.
I fear changing to a new Thinkpad, so many people complain about the T6x series with so many problem, that I would be too insecure to just buy a laptop, and if I make the choice not to buy extended warranty something would go wrong on these new machines.
Current
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Past: T420 HD+, X61s XGA, T61 14" SXGA+, T42p 14.1 SXGA+, T30, A22e

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