P1 Introduction--a (much) thinner version 15" Workstation Laptop

[w0qj]

P1 Introduction--a (much) thinner version 15" Workstation Laptop

www.eweek.com/pc-hardware/lenovo-introd ... op-to-date

The all-new ThinkPad P1 includes a 15.6-inch Full HD display (1920 x 1080 resolution) or an optional 4K UHD touch-screen display (3840 x 2160 resolution), a choice of Intel 8th Generation Xeon or Core processors, up to 64GB of DDR4 memory (2 SoDIMMS maximum) and up to 4TB of NVMe SSD storage. It can also be purchased with various graphics chips up to an Nvidia Quadro P2000 card.

The P1 can be configured with Windows 10 Pro for Workstations or with Windows 10 Pro or Ubuntu Linux (preloaded). The machine is also certified for Red Hat Linux which can be installed as an operating system option.

Standard features also include a built-in HD camera...

[Utwig]

Any reports on what is the sustained thermal performance on these things?

[Dekks]

Any reports on what is the sustained thermal performance on these things?

The million dollar question, if the answer isn't good then it's a vanity purchase for Eng/IT directors. P1 & Carbon X1 marketing synergy??

[Ibthink]

Of course, vanity plays a big role in selling this one. Compare its design with the ThinkPad P52 – its not really made for the same customers.

But the ThinkPad P1 does go beyond vanity, because it fills a gap in Lenovo's portfolio. That is, the ThinkPad P52 is pretty heavy – compared to the smaller ThinkPads anyway. As Lenovo discontinued the T4x0p line, there was no "more portable workstation" machine. If one wanted the high-performance H series CPUs, he had to get a P52. The P1 fills that gap. Different from the T470p, it offers a 15.6" screen with small bezels (instead of 14" with wide bezels) as well as more powerful graphics – and its much more expensive & in the premium category, which means better profits for Lenovo.

As far as thermal throttling goes, the judgement is still out on that. But based on all the tests I have done with the new CPUs, its pretty much impossible that the CPU can run all six cores on with the highest-clock rate. The problem here is Intel: They have put out CPUs that can only reach their turbo-boost clock-speeds by using far more power than their TDP normally allows.

As long as it delivers a considerable higher amount of performance than the smaller ThinkPads with U CPUs, the ThinkPad P1 will do fine, I think.

[RealBlackStuff]

IMHO these P1 machines would be wasted upon "bosses", they'd just be expensive desk-decoration for them.
Maybe there's something like an A585 (a 15.x" version of the A485) with AMD Ryzen in the making for REAL users?

[Ibthink]

Maybe there's something like an A585 (a 15.x" version of the A485) with AMD Ryzen in the making for REAL users?

I don't think that is the case, when Lenovo's ThinkPad roadmap was leaked a couple of months ago, there was nothing like that in there.

But Lenovo apparently does plan a new model called ThinkPad T580p, which would bring the more powerful Intel processors (which AMD currently can't compete with) back to the T series. Supposedly, that one would be less expensive than the P1 or P52 and better for regular business users.

[dr_st]

But the ThinkPad P1 does go beyond vanity, because it fills a gap in Lenovo's portfolio. That is, the ThinkPad P52 is pretty heavy – compared to the smaller ThinkPads anyway. As Lenovo discontinued the T4x0p line, there was no "more portable workstation" machine. If one wanted the high-performance H series CPUs, he had to get a P52. The P1 fills that gap. Different from the T470p, it offers a 15.6" screen with small bezels (instead of 14" with wide bezels) as well as more powerful graphics – and its much more expensive & in the premium category, which means better profits for Lenovo.

I wonder how many years it will take Lenovo to figure out that they need to fill a gap in the 7-row keyboard department.

[Ibthink]

There is no market pressure for that. Meanwhile, Dell had the Precision 5510/5520 and HP the ZBook Studio for more than 2 years now – and Lenovo had nothing to counter them. This is the gap. Unfortunately, Dell and HP have not recognized the potential to put out a machine with a 7 row keyboard either...

[dr_st]

There is no market pressure for that. Meanwhile, Dell had the Precision 5510/5520 and HP the ZBook Studio for more than 2 years now – and Lenovo had nothing to counter them.

Was there actual any market pressure, or was it just in some executive's imagination?

Unfortunately, Dell and HP have not recognized the potential to put out a machine with a 7 row keyboard either...

So you're basically telling me that Lenovo can only respond to what others do? It cannot innovate? Hmmm...

[TPFanatic]

It looks like a Macbook.

#MakeThinkpadBlackAgain

[Ibthink]

Was there actual any market pressure, or was it just in some executive's imagination?

Yes, I think so. Dell released the Precision 5510 in 2015, HP announced the ZBook Studio in 2016 – and they followed both up with successor models, even additional convertible variants this year. This certainly seems to be a case where Lenovo missed out until now on the '15-inch thin workstation'.

So you're basically telling me that Lenovo can only respond to what others do? It cannot innovate? Hmmm...

No – that was not what I wanted to imply. Certainly every major manufacturer occasionally puts out some new, innovative stuff, be it a retracting keyboard for 360° convertibles (a good idea) or a trackpad with integrated Trackpoint buttons (a bad idea).

But, as with every major industry, what these management types really want is a 'safe investment', something that is proven to be successful. Something with low-risk and high profitability. That is what I wanted to say. Because the risky innovative ideas sometimes pay off – and sometimes they can burn you. Thats whats the nature of risky decisions is. Especially in so called 'mature' industries, many people avoid taking huge risks.

[Dekks]

The problem here is Intel: They have put out CPUs that can only reach their turbo-boost clock-speeds by using far more power than their TDP normally allows.

Sadly the siren call of the ultrabook marketing subsidy will mean that nothing will ever happen on that front.

[RealBlackStuff]

BS!
They don't want a "save investment", they want NO investments, to save EVERY penny they can!
Lenono needs to swap out their unimaginative, uneducated, brain-dead bean-counters!
And they should also start investing a LOT more more in their QC department, which REALLY sucks!
But before they do that, they should have some people-in-the-know look for better LCDs, then order them and install them!
NO MORE 1366x768 CRAP.

[Ibthink]

They don't want a "save investment", they want NO investments, to save EVERY penny they can!

Sure, but thats not how it works in the real world – they need to invest money in the development, because if they stop investing, the development also stops and their sales will drop as well (even if there is no to little progress, customers at least need to have the illusion of progress). So they have to invest and these investments ideally are safe for them.

[Dekks]

But before they do that, they should have some people-in-the-know look for better LCDs, then order them and install them!
NO MORE 1366x768 CRAP.

That's down to purchase departments who are very happy with the price savings who drive the usage of such screens.

[w0qj]

Here are more pictures of P1.
We especially appreciate that the AC Adapter (power brick) is slim/thin, considering it's 135W rated

www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-ThinkPad-P ... 360.0.html

Cannot wait until NotebookCheck.net publishes its hands-on review of P1 !

[pianowizard]

Certainly every major manufacturer occasionally puts out some new, innovative stuff, be it a retracting keyboard for 360° convertibles (a good idea)

This was actually NEC's idea, introduced at least a year before the Lenovo Yoga.

[Ibthink]

NEC is a Lenovo subsidiary since 2011, their development teams are working closely together (which is why NEC often releases ThinkPads in Japan with some small design modifications and the NEC logo - and why Lenovo released NEC products worldwide in the past).

I would be very interested in which NEC product carried this feature in 2012.

[pianowizard]

NEC is a Lenovo subsidiary since 2011

2011 was the year when the NEC convertible laptop came out, meaning the 360° design was probably conceived in 2010, possibly even earlier. Kudos to Lenovo for recognizing that this was a good design before it caught on, but no, it wasn't Lenovo's idea.

BTW, I still prefer detachables over back-flipping convertibles, because the latter are so heavy (since the keyboard can't be removed) that they don't work well in tablet mode.

a trackpad with integrated Trackpoint buttons (a bad idea).

I recall that when Lenovo started selling Thinkpads with trackpads, you tirelessly explained to us why they were a good idea, e.g. "you can right-click by touching any part of the trackpad".

[Ibthink]

2011 was the year when the NEC convertible laptop came out, meaning the 360° design was probably conceived in 2010, possibly even earlier. Kudos to Lenovo for recognizing that this was a good design before it caught on, but no, it wasn't Lenovo's idea.

Read more carefully then, I wasn't referring to the concept of a 360° convertible, but rather to the idea that the keyboard of such a device should retract (something that Lenovo calls "Lift&Lock" or "Wave keyboard" on newer models). That is the innovation I was referring to, not 360° convertibles in general.

I recall that when Lenovo started selling Thinkpads with trackpads, you tirelessly explained to us why they were a good idea, e.g. "you can right-click by touching any part of the trackpad".

Yes, because I was convinced that it was a good idea and that it could work – as it allowed Lenovo to keep the TrackPoint while also allowing for a bigger trackpad.

As a TrackPoint-only user, I purchased a T440s myself and adapted to it rather quickly. But what I did not know at the time was that Lenovo apparently had huge problems with this design in manufacturing, the quality consistency of those "Five button clickpads" was terrible. It often got stuck at one corner or produced very loud clicks (which my T440s did not do) – giving it its nickname "Clunkpad". Ultimately, the market rejected it and thus is turned out to be a very bad idea to do this – even though I personally still think that maybe with a different version of this design, it could have worked. But it doesn't matter, because I am pretty sure Lenovo won't try again for the foreseeable future.

[dr_st]

Was there actual any market pressure, or was it just in some executive's imagination?

Yes, I think so. Dell released the Precision 5510 in 2015, HP announced the ZBook Studio in 2016 – and they followed both up with successor models, even additional convertible variants this year. This certainly seems to be a case where Lenovo missed out until now on the '15-inch thin workstation'.

In other words - you don't have any real data. You're just making up some theory that because some manufacturers had a certain type of product, there was "market pressure" for Lenovo to offer something similar as well. Never mind whether someone actually needed / asked for such a product, and whether anyone produced any remotely credible model of why such a product would fill a certain gap that will allow Lenovo to conquer certain markets and increase revenue, enough to justify the R&D cost.

But, as with every major industry, what these management types really want is a 'safe investment', something that is proven to be successful. Something with low-risk and high profitability. That is what I wanted to say. Because the risky innovative ideas sometimes pay off – and sometimes they can burn you. Thats whats the nature of risky decisions is. Especially in so called 'mature' industries, many people avoid taking huge risks.

Thank you. I really appreciate you explaining these obvious things to me. How did I not think about them myself?

Maybe you never took the time to ponder on it - but a 7-row keyboard is a safe investment. Far safer that this P1 crap they just put out. The risk is, literally, zero. The innovation is zero (because the TP25 is already out there), and the R&D cost of slapping the keyboard on a different model is almost zero. The popularity of the TP25, combined with the most common criticisms of it, shows clearly that there is a market, and that people would love to see 7-row keyboards in other model categories. Just like TP25 was the 7-row variant of the T470, you could easily make a variant of the T470p or the P-series or maybe (that would require some changes) X series. Zero investment, zero risk, a whole extra variety of models. Only a moron (or someone totally biased against machines not looking like Macbook clones) does not see it.

[Ibthink]

In other words - you don't have any real data.

Sorry, but I do. Because I work as a tech journalist and I can see which topics people are most interested in when it comes to laptops. And right now, devices like the XPS 15 are one of the most popular topics. Making almost bezel-less, powerful 15.6" laptops with thin chassis is one of the major trends in the industry at the moment. Everyone is doing it. And if you are not ignorant to the overall market trends, its very easy to recognize this.

because some manufacturers had a certain type of product, there was "market pressure" for Lenovo to offer something similar as well.

Not had. Have. And even expanded their portfolio in this area.

The popularity of the TP25, combined with the most common criticisms of it, shows clearly that there is a market, and that people would love to see 7-row keyboards in other model categories.

In other words – you don't have any real data here either. And neither do I. But I do suspect that the ThinkPad 25 was a failure overall, because it launched with already obsolete CPUs and had a very high price-point (because there was only a single expensive configuration). Very bad decisions by Lenovo for sure, it just shows that they never really believed in this project and didn't want to invest too much into it.

Only Lenovo knows for sure, but Lenovo unfortunately likely will never tell how the sales for the ThinkPad 25 were.

Thank you. I really appreciate you explaining these obvious things to me. How did I not think about them myself?

I am really not sure where this hostility comes from, but I would ask you to scale it back, please. We are just talking here, no point in being hostile. You asked me a question and I answered it.

[dr_st]

In other words - you don't have any real data.

Sorry, but I do. Because I work as a tech journalist and I can see which topics people are most interested in when it comes to laptops. And right now, devices like the XPS 15 are one of the most popular topics. Making almost bezel-less, powerful 15.6" laptops with thin chassis is one of the major trends in the industry at the moment. Everyone is doing it. And if you are not ignorant to the overall market trends, its very easy to recognize this.

Journalist tech-talk is not the kind of data I mean. It's not the kind of data that management uses to determine what products to invest in. It's certainly not the kind of data that reflects things outside of the mainstream.

The popularity of the TP25, combined with the most common criticisms of it, shows clearly that there is a market, and that people would love to see 7-row keyboards in other model categories.

In other words – you don't have any real data here either. And neither do I.

It's the same kind of "data" that you claim to have - listening to what people say.

But I do suspect that the ThinkPad 25 was a failure overall, because it launched with already obsolete CPUs and had a very high price-point (because there was only a single expensive configuration). Very bad decisions by Lenovo for sure, it just shows that they never really believed in this project and didn't want to invest too much into it.

I wonder what your definition for "failure" is. I am pretty sure they sold every unit they produced, and they still have been producing more (it's been out of stock and restocked multiple times, and is still available on their websites, even if it's out of stock some part of the time).

That's despite the only interesting thing about this laptop being the keyboard. And despite the fact that they only made it available via extremely limited channels in an extremely available locales. And that's despite it being a very expensive configuration. The only reason they did not sell more is because they did not want to sell more. Whatever it means about their original thoughts about the project, the outcome certainly shows a potential direction that could be a gold mine for them, if someone wants to do the 2+2 like I did.

Maybe you know some folks inside Lenovo that actually affect business decisions and can help driving this point home?

I am really not sure where this hostility comes from, but I would ask you to scale it back, please. We are just talking here, no point in being hostile. You asked me a question and I answered it.

I don't know, maybe it's the explanation of banalities as if we are first graders that need things chewed for them. I understand we are not all tech journalists with connections in multi-national electronics companies; some of us are mere engineers working in such companies, but we are not morons.

[RealBlackStuff]

@Ibthink:
AFAIK journalists have to stay informed about multiple items from multiple brands, in your case, they are PCs and laptops.
The majority here on this Forum is only interested in, and has worked closely with, IBM/Lenovo products.
Our visions may be limited, but are much more precise and geared to our/customer satisfaction.
Your visions are blurred by Apple/Dell/HP and whatever else.

This is not against you personally, but against journalists in general.
Usually they only know a little bit about a lot of things.

[exTPfan]

But I do suspect that the ThinkPad 25 was a failure overall, because it launched with already obsolete CPUs and had a very high price-point

Lenovo is currently selling the Thinkpad 25 for $8 more than a similarly equipped 6th gen X1, which has an 8th gen Intel CPU, is 1.2lbs lighter, and has a 10% smaller footprint. Some failure.

[Ibthink]

Journalist tech-talk is not the kind of data I mean.

I wasn't talking about "tech-talk", I was talking about page-view numbers – these are hard numbers based on what people search for online.

I wonder what your definition for "failure" is.

If you want, I can tell you – but not here, I think the discussion about the ThinkPad 25 is off-topic here. We can continue this discussion over PM if thats OK with you.

I don't know, maybe it's the explanation of banalities as if we are first graders that need things chewed for them. I understand we are not all tech journalists with connections in multi-national electronics companies; some of us are mere engineers working in such companies, but we are not morons.

I can only apologize if something I wrote came off as condescending, it wasn't my intention to be condescending. Maybe its a force of habit to explain everything on a very basic level, because many people genuinely don't know or understand this stuff.

[dr_st]

If you want, I can tell you – but not here, I think the discussion about the ThinkPad 25 is off-topic here. We can continue this discussion over PM if thats OK with you.

You are more than welcome.

[Yukikaze]

This thread should be read by all tech people. Thoroughly reflects the current lifestyles/trends/tech that are happening...btw has the TP25 been restocked again lately?

[CrazyTPFan]

Hopefully the P1 won't have thermal issues because of how thin it is.

[crypto60]

does anybody know yet what the ram configuration options are, the current pre-order does not allow customization only 4 config choices, wondering if the 16gb model leaves sodimm slots empty.