Decision: T60p UXGA vs. X61s

[dr_st]

The 15" 4:3 R61 was only available with Intel graphics.
That's where 15" 4:3 T601 can shine.

You are right, of course; however, at this point I don't care about graphics performance on a machine that's more than 10 years old. That's just me; I totally accept the fact that some folks may have workloads that can be offloaded to the 570M for some extra performance.

[wujstefan]

The 15" 4:3 R61 was only available with Intel graphics.
That's where 15" 4:3 T601 can shine.

If Fx570m wasnt nerfed to 128mb vram...

[BigCatAndy]

I see plenty of R61's on ebay.de right now, but not a single of them is the 4:3 type...

What about this one: auction ID = 263979001317, endson the 25th of October.

Thanks a lot for the answers. Last time I really planned to use ATI FireGL was my attempt to play Doom 3. It failed... Since that I do nothing more than just mailing, surfing and listening to the music...

Regards,
Andrey

[dr_st]

What about this one: auction ID = 263979001317, endson the 25th of October.

Yep, found it once I switched my location to 'Germany'. I guess that by default eBay (or at least ebay.de) only shows you listings that ship to your location.

[wujstefan]

Thanks a lot for the answers. Last time I really planned to use ATI FireGL was my attempt to play Doom 3. It failed... Since that I do nothing more than just mailing, surfing and listening to the music...

You can change your dock to 2503 and install a GPU card in it. I was able to play Witcher 3 on it

[BigCatAndy]

T8300 costs around 7Euros in EU
EDIT: middleton the board prior to CPU swap. There was no 4:3 unit that was native penryn-enabled.

Hello wustefan,

according to thinkwiki.org, R61i could have Penryn-CPU (T8100). Should I install Middleton-BIOS anyway, if I wilsh to upgrade the current CPU (T5250). And what would be the highest CPU possible with Original-BIOS?

I'm just thinking about next steps, when my R61i arrives. What I would do next is CPU upgrade (if it is really T5250 with 1,5 GHz). Just thinking about applying middleton BIOS, or not. Ist it safe? I mean, can I do something wrong that my laptop just dies after it?

I have crazy idea: use Linux 64 bit as main/host OS and install Windows 7 as virtual PC. I really need Windows 7 for a couple of applications, but I don't want to make dual boot. Since I have already valid license for Win 7 on my T60p, I though about re-using it in the form of virtual PC. Has anbody experince with his scenario?

Cheers,
Andrey

[Screamer]

according to thinkwiki.org, R61i could have Penryn-CPU (T8100). Should I install Middleton-BIOS anyway, if I wilsh to upgrade the current CPU (T5250). And what would be the highest CPU possible with Original-BIOS?

That was only for the 14.1" 16:10 R61i and the 15.4" 16:10 R61i, which is not the 15" 4:3 R61i that you are looking at. Install middleton's BIOS? Of course, that is if you are going to install the T8300.

The fastest processor that can be installed with the original BIOS is the X7900, lots of heat, lots of issues. Undervolting that processor won't do much, since it still produces a ton of heat (even while undervolted) that can't be removed efficiently with the heatsink in the 4:3 15" R61i.

I'm just thinking about next steps, when my R61i arrives. What I would do next is CPU upgrade (if it is really T5250 with 1,5 GHz). Just thinking about applying middleton BIOS, or not. Ist it safe? I mean, can I do something wrong that my laptop just dies after it?

Yes, it is safe.

Well, you can. One possible way is to force the laptop to power off while it is flashing the BIOS, that would corrupt the BIOS data and render it non-functional. If that ever happens though, you could always make a Phoenix BIOS crisis recovery disk to flash back the original BIOS and return the laptop to proper order.

I have crazy idea: use Linux 64 bit as main/host OS and install Windows 7 as virtual PC. I really need Windows 7 for a couple of applications, but I don't want to make dual boot. Since I have already valid license for Win 7 on my T60p, I though about re-using it in the form of virtual PC. Has anbody experince with his scenario?

I do, but I don't exactly recall most of it. I used Oracle's VirtualBox to run Windows NT 4.0 Server Enterprise Edition SP6a on my Linux machine quite a few years ago, and I believe it was alright. Though gaming-wise or running any 3D-intensive applications, it was horrible. I think the video drivers during that time was not that good, so I can't tell if it has improved as of now.

[BigCatAndy]

Hello Screamer,

The fastest processor that can be installed with the original BIOS is the X7900, lots of heat, lots of issues. Undervolting that processor won't do much, since it still produces a ton of heat (even while undervolted) that can't be removed efficiently with the heatsink in the 4:3 15" R61i.

Thanks. I'm definitely not going to replace my room's heating with my new modified laptop. I checked the list of possible CPUs - I suppose, I would be happy with T7300.
So, my R61i is on the way. I think, I will start with upgrading BIOS.

Cheers,
Andrey

[wujstefan]

Thanks. I'm definitely not going to replace my room's heating with my new modified laptop. I checked the list of possible CPUs - I suppose, I would be happy with T7300.
So, my R61i is on the way. I think, I will start with upgrading BIOS.

T8300 will cost you $2 more being reasonably better

[BigCatAndy]

T8300 will cost you $2 more being reasonably better

I found another R61, wide-screen, but complete, with 3 GB RAM and T8100 and HDD. So, I decided to bid for him, because in this case I get one complete laptop with all spare parts I need. And I think, T8100 wil also make me happy.

Regards,
Andrey

[wujstefan]

I found another R61, wide-screen, but complete, with 3 GB RAM and T8100 and HDD. So, I decided to bid for him, because in this case I get one complete laptop with all spare parts I need. And I think, T8100 wil also make me happy.

Andrey, no part other than CPU, HDD, keyboard, DVD and RAM is interchangeable between 4:3 and 16:10 versions. I may have missed some super-minor insignifficant stuff, but this is it. Motherboard, cooling system, LCD tape - nothing could be used as a spare for your 4:3. Besides, T8100 costs the likes of $3?

[BigCatAndy]

Hello wujstefan

Andrey, no part other than CPU, HDD, keyboard, DVD and RAM is interchangeable between 4:3 and 16:10 versions. I may have missed some super-minor insignifficant stuff, but this is it. Motherboard, cooling system, LCD tape - nothing could be used as a spare for your 4:3. Besides, T8100 costs the likes of $3?

exactly there are the parts I wanted to use - just CPU + RAM + HDD. I know, that other parts are incompatible.
But anyway, I lost the auction.
I checked German ebay: there are a lot of offers with T8300 from China. They cost something like 5 to 8 EUR. Has anyone experience with those offers? I mean,shipping time will be definitely longer than in Europe/germany. But what about quality? Are there real Intel processors, ot just just faked chinese "masterpiece"?

[Screamer]

I checked German ebay: there are a lot of offers with T8300 from China. They cost something like 5 to 8 EUR. Has anyone experience with those offers?

I do. I have bought several high-end processors, such as the fastest mPGA478B Northwood Pentium 4, and the fastest mPGA478B Prescott Pentium 4. These two processors were from China on eBay, and they did not show any problems, other than the Pentium 4's legendary heat production. I can assure you, these processors that you buy on eBay from China are definitely not faked.

I mean, shipping time will be definitely longer than in Europe/Germany. But what about quality? Are there real Intel processors, or just just faked chinese "masterpiece"?

They are real processors manufactured by Intel, so the quality is there. Also, there is no such thing as a fake Intel processor that works and functions like how a real Intel processor would.

The fake processors that some might have been extremely paranoid of, are mostly the ones that have an integrated heatspreader mounted on them. Some bad Chinese sellers took advantage of this, and mounted a faster processor's integrated heatspreader onto a slower processor's die. The result? You get a processor that has the markings of a faster processor, but the actual die/core itself belongs to the slower processor.

This in comparison to other people's beliefs that assume some Chinese sellers have access to a fabrication plant that can match Intel's, and then produce a fake out of their factories, is not true. I have yet to see an Intel processor that has been a fake, and is produced by a Chinese factory that somehow has Intel's tools to make it work. What I mean, is that there is no such thing as a fake Intel processor apart from the occasional swapped integrated heatspreader done on the slower processors. Even that is rare to find on eBay, but may be possible to find on Taobao.

Believe me, these 'fake' Intel processors that came out of some random Chinese fabrication plant is nothing but fear, uncertainty, and doubt. Heck, some sellers take advantage of this rumor to sell their used Intel processors as 'genuine, not fake'. With that advantage, those sellers could even raise the prices to differentiate from the 'fakes'.

[wujstefan]

Well I DID have issues with counterfeit chips, and these were top-end afair.

However, bought over 200 CPUs from China. Had problems with 2 only.

exactly there are the parts I wanted to use - just CPU + RAM + HDD. I know, that other parts are incompatible.
But anyway, I lost the auction.

Drop me a line via PM. I have a couple of those (RAM modules, HDDs, T8300 CPUs). If you have some problems getting some on your local market in a reasonable price I can share them cheap.

[dr_st]

But anyway, I lost the auction.

Use Gixen sniper service next time.

[Screamer]

Well I DID have issues with counterfeit chips, and these were top-end afair.

However, bought over 200 CPUs from China. Had problems with 2 only.

Did those 2 processors come without an integrated heatspreader? Most of the counterfeit processors tend to be modified desktop processors, and I would like to know if those were laptop processors.

[wujstefan]

These were laptop PCUs. From Montevina AFAIR.

[BigCatAndy]

Hello, the Laptop has arrived, but I'm not at home. So, will pick him up on the Weekend. I hope, it has 1 x 2 GB of RAM, and not 2 x 1 GB.

T8300 will cost you $2 more being reasonably better

I found T8100 for 10€ incl. shipping. I will buy it, so that I can proceed with laptop modification. I will report on the week-end.

Cheers,
Andrey

[BigCatAndy]

Hello,
I got the laptop today. It looks impressive - bulkier that T60p. Somehow more masisve...

What I have:
- XGA display
- 2 GB of RAM (2 x 1 GB) - I bid for 2 x 4 GB on eBay right now
- Core2Duo T5250 with 1,5 GHz - going to collect T8100 tomorrow from the seller
- no HDD

First thing I did was install Middleton BIOS. After I burned ISO on the CD (somehow it didn't work with USB-stick - burning software said, the ISO would be not bootable or uses unknown compression) , I booted from that CD, the falshing started. After sometime I saw message "done", and than laptop restarted. I have now BIOS version 1.24. Unfortuntaelly, I haven't checked the verison before the switch, so unfortunatelly I cannot say, if my flashing was sucessfull. I hope so.

Next steps would be CPU change and RAM installation. I will try to get those 8 GB of RAM, but in the worst case I still have my 3 GB in T60p, which I could re-use here. I suppose, when BIOS flash was successfull, my new CPU would be shown in the BIOS screen, and laptop starts properly. Am I right here?

Thanks a lof for your support and Regards,
Andrey

[Screamer]

The message you have gotten, which is 'done', is an indication that the flash has been successful. There is no need to worry about that.

Of course. Your laptop will start without a problem, and the T8100 will be shown in the BIOS correctly.

[unixed]

No, your laptop won't start with the T8100. You have to additionally flash the 2.24-1.08 Middleton BIOS (15.4" R61) sans the EC firmware using the original CPU, see Peak2Peak and also this thread for details. The common mistake (the statement that flashing the Middleton 1.24-1.00 BIOS (15.0" R61) is sufficient for penryn support) made in this and those threads by a few posters is because they mistakenly generalise from the T61 case.
The forum search facility is well worth familiarising yourself with.

[BigCatAndy]

Hello,

No, your laptop won't start with the T8100. You have to additionally flash the 2.24-1.08 Middleton BIOS (15.4" R61) sans the EC firmware using the original CPU, see Peak2Peak and also this thread for details. The common mistake (the statement that flashing the Middleton 1.24-1.00 BIOS (15.0" R61) is sufficient for penryn support) made in this and those threads by a few posters is because they mistakenly generalise from the T61 case.
The forum search facility is well worth familiarising yourself with.

thanks for the hint. I downloaded the BIOS 2.24 verison, but haven't managed to install it - I get error saying "BIOS image file cannot be found". I use boot CD, and not Windows utility.
Beim familiar with search function of the forum , I found this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=122893
Looks like this update would go only "Windows way". Should I create/combine my own ISO file with replaced file $01B3000.FL1?

Cheers,
Andrey

[Screamer]

Confusing, I initially assumed that the 15" R61i was identical to the 15.4" R61i. I guess my ignorance doesn't help much.

That BIOS update can be done in either DOS or Windows, but it seems like your boot CD doesn't detect it or has the file names mixed up. I would suggest using Windows for this, as what the others had done previously. Just to be safe, that is.

[BigCatAndy]

Confusing, I initially assumed that the 15" R61i was identical to the 15.4" R61i. I guess my ignorance doesn't help much.

That BIOS update can be done in either DOS or Windows, but it seems like your boot CD doesn't detect it or has the file names mixed up. I would suggest using Windows for this, as what the others had done previously. Just to be safe, that is.

Hello, it becomes problematic because I do not have spare/free HDD to install Windows 7 "just for one action". I'm thinking about other BIOS version available - like 2.29?

Cheers,
Andrey

[wujstefan]

Confusing, I initially assumed that the 15" R61i was identical to the 15.4" R61i. I guess my ignorance doesn't help much.

That BIOS update can be done in either DOS or Windows, but it seems like your boot CD doesn't detect it or has the file names mixed up. I would suggest using Windows for this, as what the others had done previously. Just to be safe, that is.

No, 4:3 needs completely different approach. Plus, you loose firewire port in the process (who uses that thing?).

[dr_st]

Nobody uses Firewire, and the couple of times I did use that, it was only the 6-pin ports on desktops, never the 4-pin ports on laptops.

But still it's annoying to lose something I paid for! Do we know why it happens? I can only guess that the 4:3 R61 use the TI chip from R60 for 1394/CardBus, whereas the widescreen models use the Ricoh chip. Hmm... Does it mean that CardBus also stops working?

[BigCatAndy]

No, 4:3 needs completely different approach. Plus, you loose firewire port in the process (who uses that thing?).

Just thinking about unpacking the ISO-file, replacing required file in it, and packing it again as ISO. Will it work?

A friend of mine has spare HDD, so in the worst case I still can install W7 for 5 minutes-action. But it will take longer time.. i have to admit, this R61i looks not that bad as I would expect... I start to respect it

[Screamer]

I sure hope that the CardBus functionality stays, I can't possibly imagine a waste of space being the CardBus slot.

No, 4:3 needs completely different approach. Plus, you loose firewire port in the process (who uses that thing?).

Thanks for confirming about the 4:3 model requiring a different way of flashing, and the extra detail along with that. I never knew Lenovo would have the time to mess around with identical models.

Just thinking about unpacking the ISO-file, replacing required file in it, and packing it again as ISO. Will it work?

Repacking it should work, I don't see a problem with that method.

EDIT: Wait, be sure that you have also packed in the extra file, which is the embedded controller's firmware. The filenames that end with .FL1 and .FL2 are what you need to place in the repacked .ISO to get the flash working.

[RealBlackStuff]

The only way to do this properly on an R61 is described in my post here: viewtopic.php?p=797864#p797864
Plus read the few posts after it as well.

[Screamer]

Alright, I took a look at your posts, but I have a question:

Is the reason for the 2.24 BIOS not being able to be flashed, due to that 'BIOS image cannot be found' error message? To work around that problem, you suggested using winphlash to flash the BIOS image under a Windows environment. That is my understanding, which I find that it could be done the same way with phlash16 under a DOS environment.

As I said before, I do not see a problem trying a different way that still accomplishes the same objective. Unless it gives out the very same message, that prevented the boot CD's phlash16 from flashing under a DOS environment. Assuming no error message pops up while trying the different method (in DOS), is there a reason why would you still lean towards the winphlash method?