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Buying parts for 701C: HDD caddy, bottom system board

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MooNWalker
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Buying parts for 701C: HDD caddy, bottom system board

#1 Post by MooNWalker » Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:20 pm

I'm trying to restore a 701C unit I got as a gift from my fiancee's older brother. Right now it's giving me a memory error, even after I removed the SO-DIMM. I see no visibale damage to soldered RAM chips, which I guess means I need to replace the bottom system board. Unfortunately, the HDD cover seems to be blocking me from removing the keyboard (according to HMM I need to remove the keyboard to get to the system boards), and I cannot easily remove the HDD because it's caddy is partially broken. So, unless someone has better suggestions, I need:
a) replacement bottom system board. Ideally I'm looking for part 25H4883 - that's what I have right now, the one for 25/75MHz 486DX4 CPU, with 8MiB RAM soldered on it.
b) HDD caddy or whole HDD assembly in case my attempts to force it out break the current one.

If someone can point to a supplier I can buy these from (other than Cygnus Supply - I've already requested a quote from them) I would also much appreciate that.
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Re: Buying parts for 701C: HDD caddy, bottom system board

#2 Post by hwattys » Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:53 am

These guys have the hard drive caddy for $10 and I can vouch for it. Made from thicker plastic than the original:

https://www.drivesolutions.com/cgi/shop ... temid=cd37

The lower planar is more of a problem. I have probably 6 or so of them, all of which throw off the memory error but in each case the clock battery is also run down.
Replacing the clock battery will often remove the memory error.

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Re: Buying parts for 701C: HDD caddy, bottom system board

#3 Post by TheForgottenKing » Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:52 pm

Dead CMOS battery often throws a memory error! I assume it also says 161 and 163 in addition to 201 error?

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Re: Buying parts for 701C: HDD caddy, bottom system board

#4 Post by hwattys » Sat Dec 15, 2018 8:07 am

It would yes....time will be set to default. You get the 161/163 first and then after it has done the memory check you get a 201 error with a memory address.

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Re: Buying parts for 701C: HDD caddy, bottom system board

#5 Post by MooNWalker » Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:47 am

Thanks hwattys, I ordered one, we'll see how it works out.

Yes, as a matter of fact I do get errors 161 and 163, with CMOS battery discharged. I'll see if those errors go away once I find a CMOS battery replacement. I've read somewhere (can't readily find right now) a suggestion to replace the original NiMH CMOS battery with something else (Li-Ion?) to avoid damage from leakage, do you guys know anything about that?
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Re: Buying parts for 701C: HDD caddy, bottom system board

#6 Post by hwattys » Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:05 pm

There are two batteries in addition to the main battery. One is in a plastic cover with a pigtail and is in the small compartment on the bottom in one of the corners under a removable panel. I am not 100% sure what that one does but its not the CMOS battery that is involved in the 161/163 error. That one is a small coin type battery that is held onto the bottom of the mainboard with a soldered bracket. That is the battery you have to replace.

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Re: Buying parts for 701C: HDD caddy, bottom system board

#7 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:07 pm

hwattys wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:05 pm
I am not 100% sure what that one does but its not the CMOS battery that is involved in the 161/163 error.
99% chance it is a RAM back battery to power the machine in standby while the main battery is being replaced.
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Re: Buying parts for 701C: CMOS battery, standby backup battery

#8 Post by MooNWalker » Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:38 am

hwattys wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:05 pm
There are two batteries in addition to the main battery. One is in a plastic cover with a pigtail and is in the small compartment on the bottom in one of the corners under a removable panel. I am not 100% sure what that one does but its not the CMOS battery that is involved in the 161/163 error. That one is a small coin type battery that is held onto the bottom of the mainboard with a soldered bracket. That is the battery you have to replace.
Thinkpad4by3 wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:07 pm
99% chance it is a RAM back battery to power the machine in standby while the main battery is being replaced.
Yes, you guys are correct - the one replaceable, accessible through tiny hatch, is Varta V30H, 1.2V/43mAh NiMH rechargeable cell. The one I have may have been damaged - there is dried electrolite on it, most likely from the main battery leak rather than from it leaking itself but I'm not gonna bet on it still being good. The CMOS battery is soldered on the lower side of the bottom system board, next to the IDE connector and the RAM slot. So far I haven't been able to identify it, and I don't trust my current soldering iron to desolder it without potentially damaging the board. I'll be waiting for a better soldering iron to unsolder the CMOS cell, and hopefully I can identify it to find a suitable replacement.

Unless someone already knows the type of batteries that can be used to safely replace the originals?
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Re: Buying parts for 701C: HDD caddy, bottom system board

#9 Post by RealBlackStuff » Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:26 am

The CMOS is the same as most other, newer ones, such as this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/140683079906
If the white connector on the mobo is all rotted/crusted, you can carefully replace it with one from e.g. a T20/T21/T22/T23 mobo.
They are identical.
Been there, done that.
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Re: Buying parts for 701C: HDD caddy, bottom system board

#10 Post by MooNWalker » Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:24 pm

RealBlackStuff wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:26 am
The CMOS is the same as most other, newer ones, such as this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/140683079906
If the white connector on the mobo is all rotted/crusted, you can carefully replace it with one from e.g. a T20/T21/T22/T23 mobo.
They are identical.
Been there, done that.
If I'm not mistaken, that cell is a usual CR2025. I was thinking, would there be any issues instead using rechargable one, like this ML1220 for CMOS battery? It appears to even match the dimentions, though I think (haven't yet been able to remove the solder to see the markings clearly) the one on the motherboard is a BR1225, but I can't find that type with solder tabs and I don't trust my skills to put those on myself without damaging the cell. That said, if it is BR1225 then it's not rechargeable, and I probably indeed will be better off just putting a CR2025 or even CR2032 in there instead. I guess I should just desolder the current one and remove its solder tabs to find out its exact type first.

The white connector for the standby backup appears to be undamaged, there wasn't even much electrolite on it to begin with. I found Varta V40H with solder tabs on eBay for that, specs-wise it appears to be a direct replacement for Varta V30H that was originally there.
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Re: Buying parts for 701C: HDD caddy, bottom system board

#11 Post by MooNWalker » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:45 pm

hwattys, TheForgottenKing, RealBlackStuff - thank you guys. The surgery was a success and the patient is making quick recovery. After I've unsoldered the original BR1225 CMOS cell from the bottom system board and replaced it with CR2032 the system shows no more POST errors. The memory error is gone too. It was a bit tricky to fit the much bigger cell in the limited space beside the speaker, but that was order of magnitude easier than finding a replacement bottom planar.

Now, I still need to replace the standby battery, but I already got a replacement for it - Varta V40H appears to have close enough specs to original Varta V30H, and I found one with solder tabs. AFAIK though that one ultimately only needed if I rebuild the leaked main battery, then I can swap the two batteries I have without power supply handy.

The supplier hwattys referenced was unable to sell me the caddy, they say they don't have any, but I may be able to fix the one I have using some acetone and styrofoam.

Again, thanks everyone who helped me bring this baby back to life, this means to me a lot!
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Re: Buying parts for 701C: HDD caddy, bottom system board

#12 Post by hwattys » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:09 am

So glad to hear of your success. I have several lower planars that I now feel its worth the effort to try soldering a new battery in place as it will revive them.

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Re: Buying parts for 701C: HDD caddy, bottom system board

#13 Post by MooNWalker » Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:07 am

hwattys wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:09 am
So glad to hear of your success. I have several lower planars that I now feel its worth the effort to try soldering a new battery in place as it will revive them.
I'm kinda jello - if I had a board I could fall back to (and if I could find the right chip) I'd totally attempt the AMD 5x86 mod. Alas, have to make do with original DX4. Unless you'd be willing to sell an extra?

On a barely related topic, the original bag that came with it is apparently made of bonded leather rather than split like I originally thought, and it started to completely disintegrate when I attempted to remove the polyurethane coating that has started melting :( So now I need to figure out a new bag with similar dimensions that I can put all the accessory harnesses into.
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Re: Buying parts for 701C: HDD caddy, bottom system board

#14 Post by hwattys » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:19 am

I saw a guy on eBay selling an x586 boards for a really high price and a leather portfolio for a merely high price....badabum is his screen name I think. I have not counted for a while but believe I have maybe 5 or 6 lower planars. I am not much for soldering I used to know a guy who could do it but kind of lost track. I have an x586 board I got from Bill Morrow that needs a new CMOS. I might consider say shipping the x586 and a couple x486 boards to someone who could do the soldering. The extra board(s) would be payment for the soldering.

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Re: Buying parts for 701C: HDD caddy, bottom system board

#15 Post by MooNWalker » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:35 pm

hwattys wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:19 am
I saw a guy on eBay selling an x586 boards for a really high price and a leather portfolio for a merely high price....badabum is his screen name I think. I have not counted for a while but believe I have maybe 5 or 6 lower planars. I am not much for soldering I used to know a guy who could do it but kind of lost track. I have an x586 board I got from Bill Morrow that needs a new CMOS. I might consider say shipping the x586 and a couple x486 boards to someone who could do the soldering. The extra board(s) would be payment for the soldering.
I see nothing on eBay when I search for postings by 'badabum' :-(
Can you elaborate on the soldering deal?
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Re: Buying parts for 701C: HDD caddy, bottom system board

#16 Post by hwattys » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:21 am

badabumm:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-ThinkPad-7 ... :rk:3:pf:0

I think I found a local guy to do the soldering. I have qty. 5 dx4/75 boards and one AMD 586 133 mhz. It was my intention to offer a DX4 board to anyone who would solder on a new CMOS to the 586 board but I am going to try to have the local guy solder new CMOS onto all 6. I will keep the Forum posted.

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Re: Buying parts for 701C: HDD caddy, bottom system board

#17 Post by MooNWalker » Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:24 pm

hwattys wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:21 am
badabumm:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-ThinkPad-7 ... :rk:3:pf:0

I think I found a local guy to do the soldering. I have qty. 5 dx4/75 boards and one AMD 586 133 mhz. It was my intention to offer a DX4 board to anyone who would solder on a new CMOS to the 586 board but I am going to try to have the local guy solder new CMOS onto all 6. I will keep the Forum posted.
Ah, one extra 'm', that's why I found nothing. Thanks for the pointer! $500+ is a hefty price, but considering it's been a decade since I've been regularly doing surface-mount solder jobs (used to work at electronics R&D startup) it's not too bad - while I can solder a CMOS battery with confidence (BTW, let me know if you decide you want my help) I'm not so sure about a CPU.

On an HDD caddy topic - just noticed that the connector appears to be identical to a 16-bit PCMCIA connector. I remember reading something about PCMCIA and Compact Flash card interfaces being somehow related, and then Compact Flash and IDE also... Which makes me wonder if it'd be possible to get a fast CF card if I cannot find a proper IDE SSD that would be small enough for the controller/BIOS not to throw a fit.
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Re: Buying parts for 701C: HDD caddy, bottom system board

#18 Post by MooNWalker » Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:32 pm

MooNWalker wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:24 pm
On an HDD caddy topic - just noticed that the connector appears to be identical to a 16-bit PCMCIA connector. I remember reading something about PCMCIA and Compact Flash card interfaces being somehow related, and then Compact Flash and IDE also... Which makes me wonder if it'd be possible to get a fast CF card if I cannot find a proper IDE SSD that would be small enough for the controller/BIOS not to throw a fit.
Yes:
The CompactFlash interface is a 50-pin subset of the 68-pin PCMCIA connector ... The interface operates, depending on the state of a mode pin on power-up, as either a 16-bit PC Card (0x7FF address limit) or as an IDE (PATA) interface ... CompactFlash supports C-H-S and 28-bit logical block addressing (CF 5.0 introduced support for LBA-48)
So it's down to just finding a passive CF/PCMCIA adapter.
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Re: Buying parts for 701C: HDD caddy, bottom system board

#19 Post by BillMorrow » Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:28 am

So it's down to just finding a passive CF/PCMCIA adapter.
a WHAT..? :)
EDIT: nevermind.. once memory is refreshed i see a CF PCMCIA adapter with a 1GB IBM microdrive in my hard drive and memory drawer..
(which i have not opened in at least a few years)
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Re: Buying parts for 701C: HDD caddy, bottom system board

#20 Post by MooNWalker » Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:16 am

BillMorrow wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:28 am
So it's down to just finding a passive CF/PCMCIA adapter.
a WHAT..? :)
On a more serious note, what exactly do you find surprising?
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Re: Buying parts for 701C: HDD caddy, bottom system board

#21 Post by axur-delmeria » Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:46 am

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Re: Buying parts for 701C: HDD caddy, bottom system board

#22 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:21 pm

axur-delmeria wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:46 am
Something like this? https://www.amazon.com/Transcend-PCMCIA ... B0009M069Y

Image
You bet!
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