[Medium Pictures] X230 not recognizing genuine "44" 4-Cell Battery

[Jake.Werecat]

Hello everyone, just came across a hard nut to crack.
I wanted to change my old worn-out 44+ 6-cell battery in X230 to a smaller, thinner 44 4-cell one, as I do enjoy flat bottom, with no protruding elements. I bought one from a local computer store, but it didn't work, so I changed it for another one, but it wasn't working either. OK, fake cheap Chinese batteries I thought, returnd it to the store and ordered a third one, this time from a Lenovo dealer, more expensive, but certainly a genuine one. Yet again the same issue. It's not working. Power Manager says "The battery is not detected. Try reinstalling or recharging the battery to solve the problem".
I tried the battery in another X230, which belongs to my gf. Still same problem.
Machine: Lenovo X230 (type 2325-78G)
Battery: 44 4-cell battery, FRU: 45N1019
Screenshot attached:


Has anybody experienced similar issue before? Any hints of how to solve the issue? I must admit, I'm out of ideas.

[Thinkpad4by3]

I would try EC modding your X230 just to eliminate that pesky chip as a source of problem.

[Jake.Werecat]

Thank you for answer. I heard about modding the EC, it's way easier then flashing custom BIOS, but I could not find any information where to get custom firmware or how to flash it besides git-hub project, based on Debian, which is a bit too complicated for me.
I'm also wondering why the computer is not accepting the genuine lenovo battery...

[TPFanatic]

Possible all the batteries are dead?

[Thinkpad4by3]

Possible all the batteries are dead?

Could always test this up by using one of the Lenovo external chargers and then seeing if they charge. Likely those are dumber chargers and will supply a charging voltage in situations where the laptop would say otherwise.

[RealBlackStuff]

Try it in an X220.
If still not working, the battery is presumably dead (or was never charged, and takes a loooong time to do so the first time).

[Thinkpad4by3]

Also user BatteryInfoView(my preferred) or HWinfo to get a better view of what the computer sees. I don't totally trust the Lenovo app.

[Jake.Werecat]

I contacted the reseller and he informed me that lately Lenovo produced a big defective series of 44 batteries and they experienced similar problems with other batteries beofre.I returned the battery, and I'm now waiting for another one... that would be the fourth battery I try. Maybe it will work now. I'll let you know, once I receive it.

[Puppy]

Did you have success with the 4-Cell battery? I am looking for it as well for my X220. I can find 6 or 9 cell ones only.

[dr_st]

I have a 44 (4-cell) for my X220. Presumably a genuine one. Got it from some guy in Poland, I think. They are pretty rare and hard to come by. Battery life is abysmal. Only good for keeping your laptop slim. I use it during periods it spends most of its time docked and connected to AC.

This guy in Hong Kong claims to be selling genuine 29 batteries (4-cell for X220). If really genuine, this is probably very old stock, as they discontinued "29" after they released "44".

[Puppy]

Ok, thank you. It seems as it wouldn't make sense to buy it anyway.

[Jake.Werecat]

No, I failed. After 3 attempts from the genuine Lenovo reseller, all of which turned out to be not working they gave up, stated that the the whole series of batteries is defective, and they don't know where new ones will be accessibly, so they gave me my money back.
I'm still not happy with protruding part of 6-cell "44+" battery I have at the moment, besides it's capacity is less then 40% now, so I'd really like to change that one for a slim-line one.
dr_st : Any hint where to get one? I'm from Poland, so that should be best possible source of battery.

[dr_st]

dr_st : Any hint where to get one? I'm from Poland, so that should be best possible source of battery.

Unfortunately, no; it was a private seller on eBay which happened to have one open-box, practically unused battery. I looked again a few days ago and couldn't find anything other than that Hong Kong seller with X220 batteries (which would require an EC flash for your X230 to be able to charge them).

[Jake.Werecat]

dr_st : Any hint where to get one? I'm from Poland, so that should be best possible source of battery.

Unfortunately, no; it was a private seller on eBay which happened to have one open-box, practically unused battery. I looked again a few days ago and couldn't find anything other than that Hong Kong seller with X220 batteries (which would require an EC flash for your X230 to be able to charge them).

Thank you for the answer. Good luck vs bad luck. I once won an auction on eBay with 44 battery in very decent price from USA. And after I've won, he sent me an e-mail that he will not ship it to Europe. No because no. And that was it
I don't want to flush no EC, so I badly look for a 44, not 29 battery.

[dr_st]

Thank you for the answer. Good luck vs bad luck. I once won an auction on eBay with 44 battery in very decent price from USA. And after I've won, he sent me an e-mail that he will not ship it to Europe. No because no. And that was it

It may be a good idea for you to set up a freight forwarder in the US, this way you can give a US shipping address and the freight forwarder will take care of shipping it to you in Europe. Don't know how much they would charge; international shipping from US is generally quite expensive...

Batteries specifically have some crazy regulations to the point where it may be impossible to ship out of US using normal postal services.

Funnily, I recall I had a similar annoying experience with a battery for a different laptop - won on eBay for a rather good price, and the seller just cancelled the auction with 'out of stock or damaged'. Yeah, right. Probably just wasn't happy with the price and decided to keep it longer.

[Jake.Werecat]

Frankly speaking I do have my good friend, whose family live in US and could possibly forward the parcel for me, but the seller stopped answering my messages, so I just gave up.
Yep, I did have similar situation like you a few times, on both eBay or polish Allegro. Not very pleasant though.

[Jake.Werecat]

I've just tested yet another battery from yet another seller. Same issue over and over again. Will have to return it... again...

I know it's a genuine Lenovo product and SHOULD work without any workarounds and mods, but as I'm just really focused on a result, I'm just wondering if EC mod will make it work...

Also found this auction:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lenovo-Think ... Sw4cxdfRVC
Looks like NOS (new old stock), but somehow effected with same issue :/
What is wrong with those batteries!

[Jake.Werecat]

The story still goes. I found yet another battery, this time 2x cheaper, NOS, from private seller. As one can imagine I bought it right away. This one in opposite to previous 4? 5? ones has lenovo logo written with old good font. Of course it isn't working either. Same issue. On both X230 I have. Even tried to do EC flash on one of my X230. I changed nothing. How one can not get devastated? Even my almost a century old X61s with super old slim-line battery is working absolutely fine, yet those bloody 4 cell batteries refuses to work at all. What's the issue? All of those (even bough from the retailer) are old stock, and since they were last charged, the voltage dropped so low on the cells that the battery controller is permanently cutting them off? I see no other legitimate explanation to this crazy phenomenon.

[samveen]

would you liveboot off a Linux USB and check what output `tlp-stat -b` gives? From a investigative perspective, I find that linux, given it's background, is usually the best option to dig into such issues.

[Jake.Werecat]

tlp doesn't work on liveCD, but that's not a problem as I have Ubuntu installed.
There we go:
"44" 4-cell dead battery:

For comparison, a working "44+" 6-cell one:

[axur-delmeria]

Definitely a dead battery. The lithium cells may have deteriorated while in storage for a long time, and trying to charge it in that state can be dangerous (it may heat up and cause a fire). The battery pack has protection circuits that preemptively "kill" the battery (prevent it from charging) if it detects that the internal voltage is too low.

[Jake.Werecat]

That was exactly my thought. darn it! It's so insanely hard to find a working "44" battery these days. I've tried 7 (seven) from 3 different distributors and one private seller. All behave same way

[dr_st]

Maybe there is some kind of fundamental design flaw that makes these batteries bite the dust quickly, and maybe that's why they were discontinued, and are almost impossible to find.

[Jake.Werecat]

Maybe you are right indeed. Still a big pity.

[atagunov]

I read good reviews for KingSener batteries from AliExpress on reddit. Got their 6-cell for X230 myself since January 2020, working fine so far in my X220. When I finally find time to assemble my X230 I will report back my test results. I certainly hope it will work with it.. The battery takes about 3 weeks to be delivered to the UK and costs delivered £24-30 these days. I would advise only 6 and 9 cell however as these unlike 4 cell use 18650 elements inside and high-quality 18650 are easy to procure if you're an honest seller. Please correct me if I'm wrong on 4-cells.. I currently think they are Li-Po and not Li-Ion 18650.

[axur-delmeria]

Maybe there is some kind of fundamental design flaw that makes these batteries bite the dust quickly, and maybe that's why they were discontinued, and are almost impossible to find.

I was wondering about that as well. This is the first battery with fast charging right? The problem may be somehow related to that, like an over-earger protection circuit, or lithium cells that have faster self-discharge. OTOH it can also be due to age-- these are (at most) 8 year old battery packs left on a shelf in some warehouse.

[samveen]

I see you have accumulated atleast 2 of the 4 cell batteries. Can you take one apart and re-cell it and then start up the battery (there seems to be some short-curcuit like trick to resetting the fail switch on the battery controller board)? If one works, then you're good to re-cell the others correctly (based on the opened one, exactly what I was planning on the 44+/44++ I asked you for).

[Jake.Werecat]

Actually I have not gathered any of those. I tried 5 or 6 different ones, but returned every single one to the shop to get my money back. Those batteries were far too expensive, to just live them laying about at home or prying them open myself. Besides, AFAIK, there are made with slim, cuboidal cells, which are rather hard to find anywhere on the market.
I am also considering ordering this one:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000141 ... hweb201603_

But considering bad luck I'm a little bit skeptical...

[atagunov]

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000141380525.html

Seller has only 94.4% score, no feedback on the item.. My best advice - as a fellow X220/X230 owner - is to give up on 4 cells and go for a KingSener 6-cell. I have one of those from AliExpress, it was £30 delivered to the UK and has worked okay since January this year.

[Jake.Werecat]

Oh, no no. No 3rd party batteries of unknown quality. I've never used non-genuine battery and I'd like to keep it that way.
If I'm about give up on 4-cell batteries I can just buy 6-cell "44" form local reseller, as those are rather easily accessible. Or stick with my old one. I very seldom use the thinkpad without a charger anyway, so capacity is not an issue, the size and weight on the other hand are, as X230 keeps traveling with me all the time. I absolutely love the flatness of X61f with slim battery I have.

Thanks for advice about that aliexpress offer. I will reconsider it. Either will I give it a try as my last attempt, Aliexpress is usually very fair for clients, and if it appears that it's also dead, I suppose I will get a refund, or I will just give up.