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T440S for heavy browsing

T430 and later, plus T530 and later series specific matters only
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manolis kokotsakis
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T440S for heavy browsing

#1 Post by manolis kokotsakis » Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:37 pm

I have a T440s i7 12 gb ram 250 ssd . My work demands max performance on browsing, as fast as possible-many tabs open, excel files open.

I dont have any complains from my machine. Do you believe , a newer model would do the job better ? A T480 - 490 for example , with nvme drive ?

Of course i have VDSL internet speed.

Thanks.

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Re: T440S for heavy browsing

#2 Post by RealBlackStuff » Fri Aug 14, 2020 12:14 am

Your T440s is about 7 years old by now, but it almost took that long to get better CPUs.
I wouldn't go with an Intel CPU any longer, they have taken it easy WAY too long, being the money-making racket that they are.
Today I would choose something like the new Lenovo T14 or T14s with the AMD Ryzen 5 PRO 4650U or AMD Ryzen 7 PRO 4750U CPU.
https://www.lenovo.com/ie/en/laptops/th ... 2TPT144SA2
https://www.ultrabookreview.com/38154-r ... u-laptops/
https://www.notebookcheck.net/4600U-vs- ... 596.0.html
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Re: T440S for heavy browsing

#3 Post by manolis kokotsakis » Fri Aug 14, 2020 5:26 am

Thanks for the info sir, but you didnt answer my question.
Do i need this new machine ?

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Re: T440S for heavy browsing

#4 Post by atagunov » Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:06 am

manolis kokotsakis wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:37 pm
I have a T440s i7 12 gb ram 250 ssd. My work demands max performance on browsing, as fast as possible-many tabs open, excel files open. Do you believe, a newer model would do the job better ? A T480 - 490 for example , with nvme drive?
Hi, seems like you have enough RAM and mostly any SSD would do a decent job. Which one have you got btw?

If you're curious about raw CPU "muscle", please feel free to go over here: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/ and compare the score for your current CPU with the one you're considering. I wouldn't expect a small score difference - like say 20% to translate into a massive or even noticeable improvement in performance. Also the score for newer CPU-s will based off 4 cores and you probably have 2 cores now and I'm not sure if that 2x growth in number of cores translates into that massive improvement in browser/Excel. Yet this is one way to measure CPU omph that we've got and you're welcome to check and make a prediction if the upgrade you're considering looks like it may be worth it or not.

I think NVM.e will definitely give you faster booting. Perhaps your applications will be starting up faster too. Suspend to disk will be faster. But I'm not sure if you will notice much difference while browsing.
manolis kokotsakis wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:37 pm
Of course i have VDSL internet speed.
I'd probably double check if your WiFi can utilise your full VDSL bandwidth. As a simplest test you can go onto some website that measure your bandwidth and see what you're getting. I'd definitely consider making sure that the modem/WiFi you're using is home is as good as it can be. You may be surprised but in some cases it's possible to use the services of your Internet provider using your own modem. I'm using such a modem. I'm on TalkTalk in UK, and it's VDSL. I'm using some BT router reflashed to OpenWrt. I'm getting some 50-60Mbit/sec btw using stock WiFi cards in my X220/T520-s and that modem/WiFi router. I'm okay with that. It's probably close to what TalkTalk can push through my very aged copper wire that can't be replaced. But some people might benefit from a better router/WiFi modem and a better WiFi card in Thinkpad (the latter probably requires some gimmics like reflashing BIOS etc, a bit of pain really). And here newer Thinkpads may have better WiFi cards from get-go, without any messing with BIOS. Yes I think there are some VDSL/WiFi combos sold on amazon, some for pretty good money, closer to £200 I think, but I don't know how much benefit they give and if they can be used with your particular internet provider.

P.S. Lastly, if you just feel like you _want_ it and can pay for it and the CPU score doesn't go down but instead up, and the new Thinkpad looks more aesthetically appealing, then why the heck not go for it? We live only once after all :)

P.P.S. I'd still check not only the overall CPU score but single-threaded CPU performance too. Here I mean the full score is for all 4 cores firing at max. power at the same time. Single-threaded score is for a single core pumping from all its might. It depends on the app which one is more important. I'd say it would definitely be a safe upgrade if _both_ of these scores are better than on your existing Thinkpad. Also especially on newer Thinkpads you may experience thermal throttling - e.g. if the CPU overheats, e.g. the fan doesn't keep up, it will be slowed down and you won't get your full expected CPU score.. Something to be weary of.. You can search online for the particular model you're interested in "throttling" to see if other people have experienced it. These people got quite frustrated btw - "I'm not getting all performance I've paid $$$ for" - and I can relate to that..

P.P.P.S. Another thing that can make a massive change to your browsing experience is the choice of your browser. Try at least all of Firefox, Chrome and whatever Microsoft is pushing on you.
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Re: T440S for heavy browsing

#5 Post by manolis kokotsakis » Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:25 am

Thanks for all the infos you gavem em sir.
I will upgrade my machine with the Evo 860 from samsung. Now it have the intel that i boght it with.
Do you think that a new lan card will help ? I allready ask for it on the forum, and the answer was not . Maybe as you said, is very painfull to do for such a tiny improvement.

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Re: T440S for heavy browsing

#6 Post by RealBlackStuff » Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:34 am

AFAIK you are in the stockbroker business, so a fast machine is a must.
I can't tell if someone's laptop is fast enough or not.
That's why I gave some comparison links, assuming your T440s has an Intel i7-4600U CPU.
But if you have an i5 CPU, then the T14/T14s with AMD Pro gain would be substantial.

As for wifi, the T440s can have the Intel AC-7260 (FRU 04X6007) which has up to 876Mbps speed.
If you have a 'regular' AGN or BGN 7260, just upgrade it.
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Re: T440S for heavy browsing

#7 Post by manolis kokotsakis » Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:51 am

Thanks again.
These AGN or BGN 7260, are lan cards models ?
I dont know much about it ..
Do i need any bios update if i do it ? Is it difficult to to find on ebay ?

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Re: T440S for heavy browsing

#8 Post by RealBlackStuff » Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:21 am

Yes, those 7260 are WLAN cards.
Check in Device Manager/Network adapters which card you have now.
You can find install instructions in the T440s Manual, which you can find in the HMM link at the top of this page.
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Re: T440S for heavy browsing

#9 Post by atagunov » Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:47 pm

manolis kokotsakis wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:51 am
These AGN or BGN 7260, are lan cards models ?
Dominic, think there may be some confusion here. Apparently Manolis is aware that network speed is of extreme importance to him. So he is using LAN, e.g. wired connection.

Manolis, Dominic and me have been assuming that you're using WiFi. WiFi and WLAN is the same thing. So we've been giving you advices on how to make your WiFi faster. Dominic definitely knows a lot more so has given you a good advice on WiFi cards. If however you're using wired connection, like me, then these cards won't help you at all. LAN card is built into the motherboard I think and can't be replaced. But that said it's probably already a 1Gbps card and your internet modem/router nearly certainly cannot do any better than 1Gbps so I don't think any improvement of LAN adapter is needed.

One thing to check about LAN is to make sure it's actually running at 1Gbps. I was laying my network cables around the house myself and it seems like I have botched something. I have here on the same table two cables. They are running directly from my Internet router to my table. When I plug one of the cables into my Thinkpad I'm getting a 1Gbps connection. When I plug the other I only get 100Mbit/sec, e.g. 10 times slower. It just shows that's it's quite possible to damage the cable or not crimp it correctly and loose some speed. You're probably using Windows, I'm using Linux so I can't tell you where exactly to look for network speed but there should be some way to double-check there. That said even 100 Mbit/sec is probably faster than your VDSL, but still..

P.S. if you're indeed trading maybe it does make sense to get something with a higher CPU score - both multi-threaded and single-threaded score. I don't know the specifics of what you're doing but it can well be that even faster booting/launching Excel/etc may help you a little. E.g. NVMe might be of some help too. Get at least 16Gb of RAM just to be sure.. /I'm not sure what the best way to deal with in modern Thinkpads is - purchase with 8Gb and then fill the 2nd slot yourself? Ask for 16Gb from get-go?../ Think we can trust Dom when he suggests T14/T14s as the highest-omph Thinkpad gear on the market now - if you what you do pays for the costs..

I'm a software developer and I'm wielding lots of old Thinkpads. I plan to keep them too. My work is remote these days - e.g. my Thinkpad mostly works as a remote terminal to a virtual machine running elsewhere. But even I have ordered myself one Thinkpad with a processor from the latest generation/with maximum number of cores available and an NVMe. 32Gb of RAM :) Well that's to run virtual machines if I want to/ in order to show off. Among other things I'm curious to see how good it's going to be. On paper it's supposed to be a rocket!
Last edited by atagunov on Fri Aug 14, 2020 4:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: T440S for heavy browsing

#10 Post by manolis kokotsakis » Fri Aug 14, 2020 4:25 pm

Thanks for advice sir.
I allready change all cables at home. 2 years ago.
Of course if i connect with wire internet is more fast and stable. But on that case we buy a desktop not laptop. Laptop means we need take pc with us.
Question is , if i upgrade wLan card, will improve my browsing experience , when i will conect wireless ?

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Re: T440S for heavy browsing

#11 Post by atagunov » Fri Aug 14, 2020 4:42 pm

manolis kokotsakis wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 4:25 pm
Question is, if i upgrade wLan card, will improve my browsing experience, when i will connect wireless ?
I very much trust Dominic here so to quote his advice
RealBlackStuff wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:34 am
As for wifi, the T440s can have the Intel AC-7260 (FRU 04X6007) which has up to 876Mbps speed.
If you have a 'regular' AGN or BGN 7260, just upgrade it.
If you decide to keep T440s then the advice is to do what Dominic suggests - check your card and upgrade if appropriate. Will you get an improvement? Possibly. In the very least it won't get any worse :) Those websites that check you network speed they work. You can use one before and after to compare. You're basically interested in both throughput and latency. I think they should tell you both. Just look up some "check broadband speed" in your favourite search engine and hopefully you will get some local websites. I'd probably search that in local language too.
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Re: T440S for heavy browsing

#12 Post by manolis kokotsakis » Fri Aug 14, 2020 5:12 pm

yes, my laptop have the Intel AC-7260. I will make the upgrade , as you suggest , soon.

I found this one.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-7260-726 ... Sw4x5dLOcH

on ebay. Do i need to do any Bios update ?

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Re: T440S for heavy browsing

#13 Post by RealBlackStuff » Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:56 am

That link is for the wrong BGN card 7260HMW and it also is the wrong Mini-PCIe format!
What you need is the 7260NGW in M.2 NGFF format with FRU 04X6007 printed on it!
Get this one from the UK (rather than China or USA): https://www.ebay.ie/itm/274278047153

No BIOS upgrade necessary to install it.
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Re: T440S for heavy browsing

#14 Post by manolis kokotsakis » Sat Aug 15, 2020 3:00 am

Thanks a lot for all your infos sir.

Have a nice day.

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Re: T440S for heavy browsing

#15 Post by RealBlackStuff » Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:39 am

If you need more food for thought to get a T14s with AMD: https://www.notebookcheck.net/The-Think ... 406.0.html
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Re: T440S for heavy browsing

#16 Post by manolis kokotsakis » Sat Aug 15, 2020 7:09 pm

With all the respect to your time and your knowledge sir,are you sure the card you sent on the link before is not the same as i allready have on my lptop now ?
I ask someone , after our discussion nd he told me that is the same card exactly, model ac 7260 , that i allready is on my laptop now . The difference is that the one that i allready have is on Mini-PCIe format!
and this you sent me is in M.2 NGFF format ? same card but different slot format ?


Are you sure is different ?

Thanks for your time again.

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Re: T440S for heavy browsing

#17 Post by RealBlackStuff » Sun Aug 16, 2020 1:59 am

If you have indeed a PCIe-format AC-7260 card, then you do NOT have a T440s, but some other laptop with a T440s lid or LCD-bezel swapped onto it.
And that card -if original- most likely has FRU 04W3810.
Please go into BIOS and give us the Machine Type Model and the CPU Type that are there.
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Re: T440S for heavy browsing

#18 Post by manolis kokotsakis » Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:02 am

i dont know if i have a pcie-format AC-7260 , but the difference i found with the card you sent me is this detail. I am sure i have T440s.

Machine Type Model : 20ARS2V900
CPU TYPE : Intel (R) Core (TM) i7-4600U CPU

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Re: T440S for heavy browsing

#19 Post by MikalE » Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:52 am

That is not a MTM format and the number is not recognized.

Try again. Four digit number, a dash, and three digit alpha numeric number.

Did Lenovo change the MTM format with the 440?
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Re: T440S for heavy browsing

#20 Post by RealBlackStuff » Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:58 am

That is indeed a T440s.
And your wifi-card must be an M.2 NGFF, like the one I linked to.
Whoever told you that you have PCIe is mistaken.
manolis kokotsakis wrote:yes, my laptop have the Intel AC-7260. I will make the upgrade , as you suggest , soon.
If you already have an M.2 NGFF AC-7260, why do you want to upgrade?
Yours must be FRU 04W3844, which is identical to FRU 04X6007.
Let's stop this wifi confusion, you have already the best available.

And if your T440s has 4GB soldered, plus 8GB module (total 12GB) RAM, that's the maximum it can have, so no upgrade needed either.
Your decision now is only whether you want a faster laptop (like the T14/T14s) or not.
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Re: T440S for heavy browsing

#21 Post by RealBlackStuff » Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:01 am

MikalE wrote:
Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:52 am
That is not a MTM format and the number is not recognized.

Try again. Four digit number, a dash, and three digit alpha numeric number.

Did Lenovo change the MTM format with the 440?
Congratulations!
Must have taken you about 7 years to realize Lenovo has a "new" MTM system! :mrgreen:
Still NOT a great day for a Guinness! (the Real Black Stuff).
Ireland is on FULL lockdown until Easter 2021!
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Re: T440S for heavy browsing

#22 Post by manolis kokotsakis » Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:13 am

Thanks .

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Re: T440S for heavy browsing

#23 Post by MikalE » Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:16 am

RealBlackStuff wrote:
Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:01 am
MikalE wrote:
Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:52 am
That is not a MTM format and the number is not recognized.

Try again. Four digit number, a dash, and three digit alpha numeric number.

Did Lenovo change the MTM format with the 440?
Congratulations!
Must have taken you about 7 years to realize Lenovo has a "new" MTM system! :mrgreen:
I don't have anything newer than a T520. When did it change? With which model?
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Re: T440S for heavy browsing

#24 Post by RealBlackStuff » Sun Aug 16, 2020 7:16 am

From the xx40 models onward.

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