Clone Drive Problem

[emtee3511]

I use Apricorn to clone my Thinkpad drives when I want to install a new HDD or SSD, and also to make a current backup for my machines. I've used this method for several years and never had any issues, as Apricorn software is easy to understand. All of my machines came with HDDS installed, except for the X100e, so over the last several years, I have cloned the HDD to a SSD for each one, usually keeping the original HDD as a backup.

When I received my new/refurbished T410i a couple weeks ago, I had the case opened up to add more ram. While I had the case open, I decided to see if the wirelss mini card in the T410i would fit in my X200 (was wanting to see if the X200 would receive a better wireless signal with the newer T410i's wireless card.) After opening the X200 and seeing the larger wireless card would not fit in the T410i, I decided not to try the trade and wait to purchase a new card for the X200.

So here's my issue -- After making no changes in my X200, I closed the case and the machine would not boot. It asked me to set the bios time/date -- so I did and tried to reboot.

I got an error saying a software or hardware change may be the problem, and to try windows repair. I opened the case one more time to make sure I had not left some connection loose or to see if something else looked amiss -- I couldn't find anything obvious.

I tried repair, restore, and last good configuration (I think that's what it was called), and nothing worked to allow the machine to boot. So I took out the SSD Windows install and replaced it with the HDD backup, which I had cloned two weeks prior. Neither drive would now boot the computer. (After making no changes to my T410i, I closed the case and it booted right up.)


When I originally opened the case, I had first unplugged the ac adapter and removed the battery, so I wondered if no power had something to do with the time/date issue, but can't understand why my backup drive wouldn't boot the computer.

Thinking it was hardware issue, I called Lenovo under my warranty, but they insisted it was a software issue, and that I should reinstall Windows. They also told me that cloning the drive was probably the problem the machine would not boot -- that a clone or "ghost" could get corrupted. I am having trouble understanding that because the clones on all the machines in my signature work fine -- although that is not a great amount of experience to go on, it is all I have.

I followed Lenovo's advice and reinstalled Windows (bummer! lots of work getting my programs back on/up-to-date because I no longer had a backup.) The reinstall works fine, and I also cloned the drive to have a backup.

Can anyone give me some insight as to what went wrong in this instance -- i.e.
1. unplugging ac adapter
2. removing battery
3. (did not remove hdd before opening case)
4. opening case
5. make no changes/alterations
6. closed case

7. Result -- machine wants time/date set
after time/date set, machine will not boot from original drive or backup drive

Thank you for any insight you may provide!

[Brad]

Sorry for all your trouble.

Not sure why after opening the X200 you were asked for the time and date.

From my experience that behavior indicates the CMOS battery, the small yellow battery that attaches to the motherboard, needs to be replaced or it was disconnected for a moment. Because of this the system settings were reset or defaulted.

Now, I hope you are sitting down, since I think the system was defaulted because it asked for the date and time you only needed to change the BIOS SATA configuration.

Therefore I am sorry to say you did all that work for, well, nothing.

If you still have the main SSD and backup HDD you could try to change the BIOS SATA setting to check if it makes a difference. Most likely though you used both those drives to recreate your work environment.

Or, of course, I could be totally wrong.

Thanks for reading.

Brad

[emtee3511]

Brad, thank you very much for your response! And you are correct, I did use both of the drives -- one to fresh install the OS, and one to clone for a backup.

After having this issue, I was very hesitant to reopen the case on my X200 after reinstalling everything. But before I gave up to reinstall, I was guessing the cmos, and I looked for it -- I know about as much about looking inside my Thinkpads as I do about looking under the hood of my mommie-van -- I looked for the little yellow battery, and didn't see it -- I was too nervous to make things worse, so I didn't rummage around to look -- I was also too busy reinstalling my OS to take the time to google where the cmos was because I was pretty clear the 'damage'/disconnect had already been done.

I'm guessing you are probably on target about the Bios SATA setting -- If I had known that, I would have looked at the BIOS SATA setting on one of my other machines and just copied that setting -- is that what a 'non-geek' should do, or is there some special Bios SATA setting for each machine?

I really appreciate your advice as I did go ahead and order two new N6300 wireless cards for my T410i and the X200, so I will have to be brave enough to open the X200 again --

Did I do the right thing to take out the battery first? Should I also have taken out the drive?

[Brad]

Did I do the right thing to take out the battery first? Should I also have taken out the drive?

I am not sure what you mean.

You have probably seen talk about the BIOS SATA setting here on the forum before. There really isn't too much geekiness with the BIOS SATA setting. There are only two settings. Either AHCI or Compatibility. If you had trouble, a BSOD probably, simply try the other setting.

Brad

[emtee3511]

Thanks, Brad -- it doesn't take too much "geekiness" to make me a bit nervous -- That's what I was guessing about the BIOS SATA --

My reading over the Forum had me under the assumption that I should always take out the battery before opening the case, but I didn't think I necessarily had to take out the drive also.

Lenovo led me to believe that my taking out the battery before opening the case had caused the machine not to boot. But Lenovo also 'informed' me that my cloning my drive was also a problem

[Brad]

By battery you mean the main battery not the CMOS battery right?

I would recommend removing the main battery when opening the case. I don't think it is necessary to remove the CMOS battery.

I know it's hard to wait to get an answer before moving forward with the next step. I recommend creating a post about your trouble before going through what must have been a full day of recreating your environment. It probably wasn't fun, or was it? Most forum members would answer yes to that question.

Isn't this what it is all about?

Happy ThinkPadding!

Brad

[emtee3511]

Thanks Brad--

It's always fun *unless* I'm worried that I may have 'killed' my machine -- and you are right, I should have posted first. I am not good at explaining, so I was concerned my post would not be understood -- I figured I would only be out my time if reinstalling would do the trick -- then after the fact, I wanted to put my question out for my future use --

Again, thanks very much for your time in answering this non-geek's convoluted explanation of what should have been a simple question! Hopefully, I am good to go for next time

[emtee3511]

Update:
Using information provided my Brad, I discovered by X200 (a refurb) has no CMOS duh!
As he pointed out in his earlier post, a simple time/date reset would have saved me LOTS of trouble.

The good news is that my favorite X200 is up and running again -- just need to find the right CMOS for 'next time'

[Neil]

by X200 (a refurb) has no CMOS

I'm sure you meant to say it had no battery to power the CMOS (Complementary metal–oxide–semiconductor), because without the semiconductor that contains the basic system firmware, a computer will not function at all.

[emtee3511]

"I'm sure you meant to say it had no battery to power the CMOS (Complementary metal–oxide–semiconductor), because without the semiconductor that contains the basic system firmware, a computer will not function at all."

I obviously haven't a clue -- but yes, that must be what I meant -- "no CMOS Battery"

Guess my real question now is how that little bugger escaped????

[RealBlackStuff]

Most likely the amateur who 'refurbished' your X200 put in a new motherboard or replaced the base of it, and never put the the CMOS battery back in.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CMOS-BATTERY-LE ... 0131404775

[emtee3511]

Thanks, RBS -- yeah, 'refurbished' is an interesting tag especially on eBay --

My favorite thinkpad baby currently is this 'refurbished' X200 -- which I purchased on eBay with a cracked screen, and was lucky enough to have a Forum member replace with an AFFS/Glossy/Hydis -- so the background on this particular favorite of mine is sketchy to say the least.

Now here's another puzzle for me -- Another Forum member gave me the Lenovo FRU 92P1210 as the correct CMOS battery for my X200 -- in searching, I didn't find one listed for the X200 on eBay, but found some on the net for $40 plus, to include shipping. I did find on eBay a listing from the same Seller in your post, but it was for an X60/61 (has the same part number) and was only $2.99 shipped. I already purchased from that auction listing:
EDIT to correct auction listing: http://www.ebay.com/itm/300433577731?ss ... 1438.l2649

In looking at both listings (and photos) from each auction, the part number listed is the same, but prices are different, with the X200 listing about $10 more. How likely do you think it is that the X60/61 CMOS battery I have already ordered will be the same CMOS battery I need for my X200?

[RealBlackStuff]

Both machines use the same CMOS with the same P/N or FRU, didn't know that.
Your $2.99 buy will be a perfect fit, good find!
When I need a part, I usually search for the P/N or FRU if I know it, rather than "part xxx for IBM/Lenovo model yyy".

[emtee3511]

Yipee!! Thanks very much for the info RBS -- sometimes this non-geek gets lucky!