t60 vs t61...what say you?

[gery350]

hello fellow ibm'ers. i have to buy a dual core pentium and i am torn between a t61 or t60.


i will be using it for work(auto mechanic/prorammer) where i will be running multiple programs by switching out hard drives(similar to what i do with my t30(hot swap).

also can they both run either windows 7 or xp professional.

i was wondering which one you guys recommend for the trenches. durability,speed, battery life/temp,etc.........


thanks in advance. gery

[ajkula66]

Do bear in mind that neither T60 nor T61 have a serial port like T30.

T61 is a safe bet as long as it has Intel integrated graphics, and not nVidia discrete ones.

T60 is well-loved and inexpensive nowadays.

Generally, machines with integrated graphics (applies to both T60 and T61) have better battery life and run cooler.

Either will run XP and W7.

Most of your colleagues that I know use ToughBooks, though.

Good luck.

[rumbero]

A T60 usually offers the best screen options, thanks to in later Thinkpads unavailable IPS/Flexview display options. Unfortunately, T60's are hardware-capped to a maximum of 3GB of RAM, and 64bit-capable Core2Duo CPU's like the T7200 are therefore rather limited in the theoretically available memory space. Furthermore, the T60 varieties offering discrete video GPU's tend to run rather hot and become quite noisy due to permanently busy cooling fans. The Intel GPU equipped T60's are very cool running and quiet, but the graphic capabilities are a bit at the low end side, while still good enough for office stuff.

The T61 has a more modern chipset which allows for up to 8GB of RAM usage and some very nice CPU options. Unfortunately, there are only comparatively mediocre screen options available since this generation. Adding insult to injury, all T61(p)'s built before August 2008 with a nVIDIA GPU could possibly fail due to a production fault on nVIDIA's behalf (bad soldering materials). One might be lucky, but the so called nVIDIA bug is one of the most common defects for these machines, and only a mainboard replacement can remedy this. The Intel GPU variants of the T61 don't show any issues and run quite nicely, offering much more performance than their T60 counterpart.

So you can see that each T6x encarnation has it's own weakness and strength. I'd choose a T61 just because of the better RAM and CPU options, but the IPS display of a T60 would be sorely missed. Either machine should be able to run Win7 and XP equally well.

My prefered machine is actually a 15.1" T60 with a new BOE Hydis UXGA IPS/Flexview screen from the outside, and with a 14.1" T61 mainboard equipped with a T9300 CPU and 8GB RAM inside. Of course I had to build that machine myself from parts which i bought via eBay and other sources, bcause Lenovo never offered such a gem. I usually refer to it as a T61+ as it is in first place a T61 with the added benefit of a BOE Hydis UXGA IPS/Flexview display within a 15.1" T60 chassis. Building it was not really cheap as both a T60 and a T61 donor machine are needed. But as the old T60 mainboard can be swapped into the T61 chassis, two perfectly working machines were the result.

[gery350]

thanks guys. looks like i am going with the t61(probably with 14 inch screen just for comfort and the intel graphics).

i wouldve had no idea about the nvidia graphics if ya'll wouldnt of replied. so thanks again. gery

[robert213]

thanks guys. looks like i am going with the t61(probably with 14 inch screen just for comfort and the intel graphics).

i wouldve had no idea about the nvidia graphics if ya'll wouldnt of replied. so thanks again. gery

Intel integrated graphics are available in both 14 and 15 displays.
Intel integrated graphics with 4:3 aspect is available only in 14 display.
nVIDIA soldering problem was resolved with AUG, SEP, OCT, NOV 2008 build dates.
Some folks say that nVIDIA problem was resolved sometime in JUL, so some units with JUL 2008 build date may be fine.
Some folks say that the last T61 build date is NOV 2008 and some say as late as DEC 2008 or JAN 2009.
nVIDIA soldering problem affects other manufacturers (e.g. Dell Latitude D620/630) as well. It is not isolated to just Thinkpad T61.

[TuuS]

I have a few late model nVidia T61/T61p units that have the updated GPU. If your interested, shoot me a PM and I'll give you a list.

I'm probably going to list a few in the marketplace soon, just been busy with other things and haven't had time.

ps. have a couple Intel units too.

[gery350]

ok guys what do you think of this. this is the one i found with the intel video :

http://www.ebay.com/itm/300617601804?ss ... 1423.l2649

[ajkula66]

That one has NVidia graphics, not Intel:

ThinkPad T61 (7663-13U)
T7500(2.2GHz), 1GB RAM, 120GB 5400rpm HD, 14.1in 1440x900 LCD, 128MB nVIDIA Quadro NVS 140M, CDRW/DVDRW, Intel 802.11agn(n-disabled) wireless, Bluetooth, Modem, 1Gb Ether, UltraNav, Sec Chip, FPR, 6c Li-Ion, WinVista Business 32

Stay away from it.

[gery350]

thanks ajkula66. i almost bought it. the listing says intel video card?

i am basicly looking for a duo core 0ver 2.2ghz 14 inch screen but this was the only one i found that i thought had the intel card.


so how do i know which one doesnt have the nvidia card.

thanks again,gery

[ajkula66]

Always check and re-check anything an eBay listing says...

Personally, I'd post a WTB (want-to-buy) ad in the forum's Marketplace rather than buying something from an unknown feebay seller...I'm pretty certain someone has a machine for you...

Failing that, check IBM's re-certified units here:

http://www-304.ibm.com/shop/americas/we ... &langId=-1

[robert213]

so how do i know which one doesnt have the nvidia card.

Search Model/Type (example 8896-2FM) at Levono's support website. You want Intel X3100.

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=97517

[cadillacmike68]

Gery350: ALWAYS get the machine type and model - the 4 numbers followed by three ltetters / numbers that identifies a Thinkpad. Then look it up either on Lenovo's site of one of the reference books listed as a sticky on the hardware page.

Rumbero, that's a franken-pad if i ever heard of one!

I'm looking for a T61 as well, but it's going to have to take a back seat to my car search. There are lots more T61s around to be had than rear drive NorthStar V8 STSs

[rumbero]

Rumbero, that's a franken-pad if i ever heard of one!

Sure it is! Built it myself and i am typing these lines on it now.
In fact, i already completed assembling two such Frankenpads, because i wanted to have a fallback in case of failure. Might possibly even build some more as it is has become a piece of cake doing so now.

[gery350]

thanks for all the replies guys. i went with a t7661-lp3 which according to lenovo has the intel video. i got it at the ibm website recommended above.

thanks again. gery

[ajkula66]

gery350 wrote:

i went with a t7661-lp3 which according to lenovo has the intel video. i got it at the ibm website recommended above.

Not that it means anything, but that would've been my choice from all the T61 units they have listed as well.

Good luck.

[RealBlackStuff]

I somehow missed out on this thread...
For that price (+ shipping) you could have received this (much better machine) from me:
ThinkPad T61 (7661-BF3)
Based 7661-12U: T7300(2GHz), 2GB RAM, 120GB HD, 14.1in 1440x900 LCD, Intel X3100, CDRW/DVD, Intel 802.11agn wireless, Bluetooth, Modem, 1Gb Ether, UltraNav, Sec Chip, FPR, Camera, Battery, WinVista

It's a mistake to go for such a fast CPU as you got, so you get 'bragging rights'.

[cadillacmike68]

thanks for all the replies guys. i went with a t7661-lp3 which according to lenovo has the intel video. i got it at the ibm website recommended above.

thanks again. gery

As long as you didn't buy the last one!!!

RBS: I must say NO to vista!!!

This is one incentive to buy one from IBM:
"IBM is proud to offer superior quality products at very competitive prices, backed by our 7—day money back guarantee, 3—month quality satisfaction guarantee, and free standard shipping every day!"

If it doesn't break in the first 3 months, it probably won't break ever other than from abuse (or the inevitible HDD failure, which is a matter of when not if)...

[RealBlackStuff]

RBS: I must say NO to vista!!!

Vista is only the COA on the laptop, it's not installed (but I could if someone wanted it).
Currently I have W7 on it...
PM me if interested.

[dr_st]

Also:

* There's nothing wrong with Vista
* The license allows downgrading to XP Pro if you must

[ajkula66]

I believe that RBS's machine will end up in my household...my daughter's birthday is coming up and she is complaining (as usual) that the 15" T60p that she grabbed from me is too heavy...which is what I had told her in the first place...

Then again, I didn't listen to my parents...

[RealBlackStuff]

Hi George, duly noted.

[pianowizard]

* There's nothing wrong with Vista

We should be happy that so many people dislike Vista, because the low demand drives the prices of Vista computers down! Vista is my favorite OS of all time.

BTW, RealBlackStuff's T61 should run Vista SP2 really well. I used to say that Vista requires at least 3GB of RAM but I recently downgraded my Dell OptiPlex 760 (2.66GHz Core2 Duo E7300) from 4GB DDR2 to 2GB and yet Vista still flies on it.

[cadillacmike68]

Also:

* There's nothing wrong with Vista ...

Except that it SU@KS!

While immediately prior posts have rendered this point a bit moot, the above was my initial reaction to dr_st's statement.

I know about the downgrading option. I also know that if you have it you can get a "7" upgrade, or something like that. That said, since my wife's T61 has the VISTA COa and XP, i don't need another. So i'll stay with XP for a while longer...

[pianowizard]

Except that it SU@KS!

It SU@KED, but not any more.

[TuuS]

I think Vista is a good operating system. I had even tweaked Vista Ultimate to run on a Pentium 3 (1.3ghz) with 256mb ram on a dell palvillion, c600 if my memory servers me right. This was back in 2005-6, and was based on the original RTM. Current Vista sp1 or higher could never run on such a machine, but it really did run well, at least as well as XP.

Unfortunately, it got trashed when I installed some microsoft updates, so I gave the unit the RAM it needed.

I currently have vista sp2 and sp1 installed on several thinkpads and they run quite well. I think it's much more user friendly then XP, and I'd prefer it over XP as long as the machine could handle it.

A lot of this debate is over personal taste, some people don't like the user account annoyance, but the vista/seven file browsing system is lightyears ahead of XP, as is the ease in setting up and browsing your LAN.

I have to have XP installed on my machine, although I rarely boot it (for software testing), but I find it hard to believe that even on a brand new microsoft XP sp3 disc, they still have no SATA drivers, and you can't even slip them in from a cdrom disc, or a usb device. It literally ONLY works with a floppy disc, unless you design a hacked up usb stick that emulates a floppy, but if you're going to go to that much trouble, might as well just edit the windows disc and add the drivers to it, which is what I had to do.

I like Seven too, and use it primarily, but vista can do pretty much anything that my windows seven can do.

[pianowizard]

I had even tweaked Vista Ultimate to run on a Pentium 3 (1.3ghz) with 256mb ram on a dell palvillion, c600 if my memory servers me right.

That would be a Dell Latitude c600. The Pavilions are made by HP.

This was back in 2005-6, and was based on the original RTM. Current Vista sp1 or higher could never run on such a machine

Really? I have found that Vista SP2 runs faster than the original RTM, although this is based on my experience with computers that are much newer than your Dell c600. By contrast, XP got slower with each Service Pack update, and on relatively powerful computers I don't find XP SP3 any faster than Vista SP2.

I prefer Vista over XP because the former is about 5 times as secure and because I like the user interface better. I agree with dr_st that there really is nothing wrong with Vista. The only thing wrong was the minimum system requirements that Microsoft published for the original RTM: 800MHz processor and 512MB of RAM! They should have recommended at least 2GB of DDR RAM, and a processor with a PassMark score of at least 1,000, e.g. the Core2 Duo T5670 @ 1.80GHz is 1,001 and the 3.60GHz Pentium D is 1,003.

[cadillacmike68]

What's a SATA driver? My wife's T61 w XP has a SATA boot HDD and i use them all the time in my T30s ultrabay.

[ajkula66]

cadillacmike68 wrote:

What's a SATA driver? My wife's T61 w XP has a SATA boot HDD and i use them all the time in my T30s ultrabay.

You need one in order to use the AHCI mode on T60 and newer ThinkPads...any ThinkPad with *native* SATA drive in XP, actually.

[JeffCullen]

I used to build custom XP intsall ISOs that had what was, at the time, called the Intel Matrix Storage Manager "slipstreamed" in so that any of the ICH7, 8, 9 or 10 AHCI PCI IDs (or RAID IDs...) would get recognized by the XP installer and Just Work. It really did provide a tiny improvement in performance... and then upon that install media I built an XP image, deployed via Symanted Ghost Solution Suite booted over PXE, that would deploy and Just Work on five different Intel desktop board platforms--865, 915, 965, Q35, and Q45... also had tons of application-specific stuff schwacked into the Default user hive, automatic Outlook 2003 configuration via PRF file, as well as automatically joining the domain in the right container... took setting up a new computer for that client from their top internal IT guy spending the best part of a day messing around with applications down to a tier one guy taking the machine out of the box, hooking it up, and booting with F12, then waiting 5 minutes for the image to get sucked off the GhostCast server :)

[cadillacmike68]

... took setting up a new computer for that client from their top internal IT guy spending the best part of a day messing around with applications down to a tier one guy taking the machine out of the box, hooking it up, and booting with F12, then waiting 5 minutes for the image to get sucked off the GhostCast server

How many of us have lived this dream (in reality a kniightmare) before???