Having trouble moving to the 100GB Seagate drive.

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shutchinson · #1 Post by **shutchinson** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 8:06 pm

I picked up a 100GB Seagate momentus drive tonight and have been having a devil of a time imaging my original drive over to it. Here are the specs:

T41P with a Hitachi 60GB drive

I have tried the following:
Install the 100GB drive in the ultra bay (worked fine, could format it, etc)
Run Ghost version 9.0 and selected drive copy, told it to copy from drive C to the new drive. It went off and did it's thing for an hour or so. When it was complete I was able to see the drive and it looked like all the files had been copied just fine.
I installed the 100GB drive in place of the 60, and it will boot up to the windows screen then hangs. (this is the windows screen that comes up when it moves over to the full res graphics mode.

Things I have tried:
Repeated the above process.
Used driveImage
Booted windows in safe mode.

Anyways I'm at my wits end, does anyone have any suggestions or tips?

Thanks!
Scott

lithium726 · #2 Post by **lithium726** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 11:28 pm

well, when i ghosted my 60gb 7k2 onto my T23, it would hang right when the XP loading screen was supposed to pop up,and the only thing i could think of was that hte partitions were different sizes.. so here is what i did.

make a backup of your boot partition onto another disk (like on your desktop)

put the 100gb drive in your thinkpad, and start up a windows installation.

let the setup format and copy all files, reboot and make sure it boots into phase two of installation

turn off the laptop, hook it up to your desktop, and ghost the partition back over to the new drive (it is very importnat that you are only copying over a partition so that you do not overwrite the boot sector you just created on teh new disk)

that fixed it for me, as soon as the new boot data was written and all my stiff was back on it, i was back using the T23 like i was with the old drive.... just alot faster

Marc_G · #3 Post by **Marc_G** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 8:16 am

Hi Scott-

What you are seeing is more common than you would think.

Here's what I think happened.

1. In Windows XP, you initialized and created a formatted partition on the 100GB drive. This caused XP to mount the drive and assign it a drive letter, I'll say (D: but it could be any other non-C: letter). XP remembers these assignments.

2. You Ghosted XP over to the new drive, including the knowlege that that partition on that drive (based on the drive's unique signature) was supposed to be "D:" so once XP is mostly loaded, XP runs into a problem since it has a "D:" drive instead of C:. BAM!! Windows hangs.

I posted a good link about this situation http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 0&start=30

go to the last message in the thread, dated 3/27, and go to the link I referenced. Great stuff there.

Essentially, there are several fixes:

1. Boot from a floppy or CD and do a regular old FDISK/MBR on the 100 GB drive which wipes the drive signature and gets around the XP knowledge that the partition there is supposed to be D:.

or

2. Remove the list of mounted devices from XP BEFORE copying the system partition to the new drive

Note that this wouldn't have been a problem if you hadn't initialized and mounted the drive. This is a major gotcha in NT-based systems.

Let us know how it goes.

Marc

pae77 · #4 Post by **pae77** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:04 am

Marc,

Do you know if there a way to use True Image to make a bootable clone of C: (the primary HD containing the XP OS) over to HD#2 (located in the ultrabay) without having to either run fdsk /mbr after the fact or edit the registry before doing the clone?

Edited to add:

Never mind.

This discussion got me nervous so I just tested my previously made backup "clone" of my HD (made using TI7). I installed it in the TP's main hard drive slot and started it up. It booted up fine into XP. The first time it booted, before XP finished loading, an Acronis utility ran. I presume that utility automatically took care of the drive letter issue. Then the XP boot completed normally. Just to make sure, I rebooted and this time no Acronis utility ran and XP booted up normally and all was fine. An exact clone of my original installation.

The steps I did to make a backup clone of my HD with zero problems using True Image 7 was:

1. Boot up with both hard drives installed in the TP (the second hard drive was in the Ultrabay in the IBM 2nd HDD adapter and was already partitioned so it appeared to XP as drive D).

2. Use the "clone" feature of TI to clone the main hd (in my case, C) over to the one in the ultrabay (in my case D).

3. After the process completed, SHUT DOWN AND PHYSICALLY REMOVE the newly cloned drive from the system BEFORE REBOOTING. The removed drive is now a bootable backup clone of the original drive. When installed in the primary hard drive slot in the TP, it will boot up fine. As noted above, the first time it boots, an Acronis True Image utility will automatically run. Thereafter, it boots up fine as drive C:.

Marc_G · #5 Post by **Marc_G** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 1:34 pm

To pae777-

Good work, you sorted it out on your own!

I've learned that when cloning a system partition or the whole drive, it's best to do it from the recovery environment rather than through Windows. This avoids the whole "drive signature / mounted drive letter" mess, which burned me a few times before I got the hang of it.

Also, I almost always make image backups (rather than clones) and store them on other media (USB2 drive, DVD, whatever). This is slower than a simple cloning in Windows, but gives a great way to archive the system state for later disaster recovery.

I'm STILL trying to figure out how to get the TI8 recovery environment onto a USB flashdrive memory key. I think there is now a BartPE plugin for TI8 available on request (it's part of one of their other higher end versions of TI, but they give it out to TI8 registered users on request), and somewhere I have instructions on how to make a BartPE USB key. When I get some time, and a big enough key, this is my next project...

Marc

Marc_G · #6 Post by **Marc_G** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:36 am

I'm curious whether the OP was able to successfully complete his move to the 100 GB drive... Any news?

shutchinson · #7 Post by **shutchinson** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:43 am

Sorry about that, I've been on the road since monday, I plan on attacking all of these suggestions (Thanks guys!) when I get back on Sunday. I'll post the results then.

Scott

pae77 · #8 Post by **pae77** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 10:29 am

Have one more question about using TI for cloning (not imaging) a back up copy of the main hard drive. As I indicated above, I have established to my satisfaction that the process works well as long as the newly cloned drive is removed from the system before rebooting. I know now that if that cloned drive is installed in the primary hard drive slot of the TP, on the first boot, the drives MBR will be written over by True Image's operation 3 before XP boots and it will thereafter boot up fine.

But what about if instead of installing the newly cloned drive in the primary hard drive slot, one just wants to keep re cloning C: over to it periodically to keep making fresh clone back ups. In this case, unless booting into the recovery environment and doing it from there, one would have to boot up with the previously cloned drive in the ultrabay. I am now wondering if booting up with the cloned drive in the ultra bay would cause any problems?

Phil_C · #9 Post by **Phil_C** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 1:28 pm

pae77 wrote:I am now wondering if booting up with the cloned drive in the ultra bay would cause any problems?

I believe only one partition can be ACTIVE. Maybe recent OS's can handle more, but I've had trouble with this in the past.

Partition Magic can make a partition inactive and hide it. I've never used Ghost or TI, so I don't know about those programs.

My system, which I follow every couple of weeks, is to use PM to clone my primary HDD to the HDD in the Ultrabay. Each primary partition and each logical drive is copied in turn. The last command in the batch sequence hides the OS partition on the second drive.

This works great for easy backups. However, a trick is necessary if your primary HDD crashes. You can replace the broken HDD with the backup, but since the OS partition is hidden/inactive, it won't boot. I made a bootable CD with PM for DOS on it. It can easily make the hidden partition active. Then you reboot to the "new" HDD.

I actually had a drive crash last year in my A21p, something which had never happened to me before. Thankfully, I was saved by the above procedure.

pae77 · #10 Post by **pae77** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 2:26 pm

Well, that's an interesting approach that is good to know about, since I have PM. If it turns out that booting up (not the first reboot, of course) with the TI cloned drive in the ultrabay causes any problems, I may end up using that approach.

I would prefer though to just be able to pop the cloned hard drive in the primary drive slot and have it ready to go with no additional steps required to be undertaken, as is the case with TI's cloning tool which is very convenient.

On further reflection, I think it might be ok to boot up with both drives in the system as long as it isn't the first reboot after doing the cloning. I'm thinking that perhaps the TI script that runs when booting from the newly cloned drive doesn't even run unless that drive is the boot drive in the primary drive slot. I'm planning on making back up clones of my drive to two separate drives and testing it out. That way if I encounter a problem, I'll still have at least one good clone to restore from.

Edited to add:

I did test it by using TI to clone C: to a drive in the ultrabay. Removed the drive from the ultrabay and booted up with the original drive only in the system. Shut down put the clone back in the ultrabay and booted up again. No problems. Took the clone out again and booted up with the original drive only in the system. Again no problems. Also the clone boots up fine when put in the primary hard drive slot. So it works and is pretty easy to keep the entire installation backed up this way.

Marc_G · #11 Post by **Marc_G** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 6:59 pm

pae77-

I don't know the definitive answer to your question, but I suspect that each time you create the clone, after TI is done making the clone, it then takes a moment to set up the utility that causes the MBR to be restored. Thus, next time this clone drive is booted, the utility placed there by TI executes and sets up the MBR.

If instead of booting from that clone, you repeatedly re-clone onto it, there should be no problem. The utility should lay dormant until activated by that drive being booted.

That's my theory, at least. Let us know.

Marc

pae77 · #12 Post by **pae77** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:28 pm

Marc, I think your theory is correct. See my edited post directly above your last post (if you haven't already).

Phil_C · #13 Post by **Phil_C** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:30 pm

pae77 wrote:IShut down put the clone back in the ultrabay and booted up again. No problems.

With both drives in the notebook, can you see the cloned C: drive in Windows Explorer?

If you run Partition Magic, what is the status --- hidden, active, or none?

This would be useful information. Thanks!

pae77 · #14 Post by **pae77** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:42 pm

Partial answer to your questions:

After first booting up with the original drive only in the system in the primary position and then shutting down (I keep repeating this essential step because I don't want anyone to reboot with both drives installed in the system on the first reboot and possibly get screwed up), and then rebooting with the original drive in the primary position and the clone in the ultrabay, the clone was visible in "My Computer" as drive D, but I didn't look at it with PM so I can't answer the other parts of your questions now.

pae77 · #15 Post by **pae77** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:52 pm

In Partition Magic, both drives showed as C and D each containing active primary partitions.

Marc_G · #16 Post by **Marc_G** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 10:35 pm

pae77-

Thanks for posting the results. I bet a bunch of people were thinking of doing this experiment and now they can just read your results instead. Good work.

Marc

Phil_C · #17 Post by **Phil_C** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:38 am

pae77,

Thanks for the info! If Win XP can handle multiple active partitions, that saves steps in going to a cloned backup after a HDD crash.

The PM manual is not exactly clear on this matter. It does say that Win XP can handle multiple visible primary partitions, but does not specify "active".

On page 65, it reads: "Only one partition on a hard disk can be active at a time." This seems to refer only to a single physical disk. I could find no specific reference to a second active partition on a separate physical disk.

PM is a very good program. You would think they would be more detailed on these critical points.

pae77 · #18 Post by **pae77** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 10:28 am

I suspect not infrequently these manuals are written by people for whom English is not their primary language, (e.g., obviously the case wrt Acronis, and also sometimes on the instructions on IBM's driver downloads).

GpsPasSion · #19 Post by **GpsPasSion** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:20 pm

I did that recently and found that the Acronis Boot CD is the way to go, worked every time although keeping the C and E partitions the same size as the originals (just in case) is a bit of a pain.

So how is that 100Gb Momentus looking so far compared to the 60Gb Hitachi (5K80 I assume) ? I'm thiking of doing the same move.

Having trouble moving to the 100GB Seagate drive.

Having trouble moving to the 100GB Seagate drive.

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