which Thinkpad best for gaming?

[rodeo]

First off I think the Thinkpad T Series are amazing. I'm work on Apples but the Thinkpads are obviously the best designed notebooks I have seen so far! WOW they are so beautiful!

We are starting with a new job, where we have to play all kind of PC games for research purposes. So I'm looking for a new (PC) machine. It has to be portable since we will be moving around. At the moment the only notebook I would spend money for is a Thinkpad. All the other brands I have seen/touched feel crappy or look plain ugly. I know the T Series are for business but as far as I know they seem to be ok for gaming too.

As the new t43 series are coming to the market I'm a little confused about which graphics card and therefore machine would be the best one to buy.

At this point I have read favorable opinions about them all ... and I'm a bit unsure if the OpenGL cards really are necessary or even do slow things down to much.

Should we go for the new T43 series with the newer x300 or FireGL V3200 cards? As far as I can tell there seems not to be to much progress in speed ...

[Steve007]

We are starting with a new job, where we have to play all kind of PC games for research purposes. So I'm looking for a new (PC) machine.

Then a ThinkPad isn't for you. You'll need a machine equipped the latest GPU in order to get the most from the games - even the top of the line T43p has a modest graphics chip by today's gaming standards.

I hate to say it, but take a look at Dell's Inspiron XPS Gen 2. The build quality isn't bad by Dell's standards and for gaming performance it's on another planet (thanks to NVIDIA's Go 6800 Ultra with 256MB), which is what you'll be needing right? A ThinkPad wins over Dell at most things but not for gaming - it can't compete (performance wise) with the high-end Dell units.

[rodeo]

yes I know ... I've seen the Dell. It just is so ugly I would suffer every moment having to use it. We probably won't need the fastest gear ... if I can say this in favor of the Thinkpads. But I know they are not made for gaming ...

If I still would like to stick with them. What machine would you recommend?

[stgreek]

yes I know ... I've seen the Dell. It just is so ugly I would suffer every moment having to use it. We probably won't need the fastest gear ... if I can say this in favor of the Thinkpads. But I know they are not made for gaming ...

If I still would like to stick with them. What machine would you recommend?

In that case, you'll save a lot of money by going for 9600 T42s - the 2378-FVUs are a good choice. If you can find some sort of discount (like the EPP or CC discount) they are probably the best bang for your buck in terms of a "Thinkpad gaming machine". That said, the only laptops that will serve your purpose well have to be big ugly beasts like the Dell or the Alienwares, since a 6800 Ultra would probably make the tiny T42 explode from the heat produced.

[aamsel]

The question is:
Do you need to be able to simply play these games, or do you need to have them operate at a competitive framerate ???

No Thinkpad is going to achieve a framerate in most current games that would be deemed as acceptable by a hardcore gamer.

To do that, you need a notebook that has a 128MB ATI 9700 card or better, and those notebooks will not produce a framerate comparable to a well-equipped desktop.

Most gamers that want portability go with a Small Form Factor (SFF) system such as the Shuttle or other SFF box, where they can put a high dollar video card in it.

Even then, we now have SLI equipped PCI-X desktop systems, where you can run two PCI-X video cards on the same motherboard for even more framerate, and those are not really available in SFF systems yet...but they will be.

So...the question is, do you want to "run" games or compete as a real gamer?

Andrew
Austin, TX

[combustion]

I'd recommend an asus m6n it comes with a radeon 9700.

[aamsel]

But only a 64MB version. Other notebooks have 128MB versions.

My point was NOT to start a discussion of what the best gaming notebook was, but simply to point out that ANY notebook will fall short of a SFF system for gaming, and most SFF systems will fall short of a high-powered desktop for gaming.

If the thread-starter is interested in notebooks other than a Thinkpad which will perform better for gaming they would be better off browsing threads at: http://www.notebookforums.com
which is a forum where gamers are the vast majority.
Here, gamers are the vast minority.

Andrew
Austin, TX

I'd recommend an asus m6n it comes with a radeon 9700.

[rodeo]

well I'm just trying to find out what Thinkpad would be the best for gaming. I just have not seen any other notebook that I would like to use.

But I'm open to sugestions. Though after having seen a Thinkpad in all its quality it is really hard to go for anything else ...

[aamsel]

In which case the above info would be correct....
Any model with the 64MB 9600, the 2378FVU or any other T42 with it.
The T42p had the FireGL which is the 9600 optimized for OpenGL, no reason to consider that unless you wanted a UXGA+ screen instead of a SXGA+.
The SXGA+ should be perfect resolution for you, however.

There are newer T43 models with X300 PCI-X but they are equal or slower than the older 9600's.

Andrew
Austin, TX

well I'm just trying to find out what Thinkpad would be the best for gaming...

[Kenn]

well I'm just trying to find out what Thinkpad would be the best for gaming. I just have not seen any other notebook that I would like to use.

But I'm open to sugestions. Though after having seen a Thinkpad in all its quality it is really hard to go for anything else ...

Hi Rodeo,

Since you seem like you don't mind the general games limitation on the thinkpads and are more interested in comparisons within the family, here goes. Take this from a (former) hardcore PC gamer: Any thinkpad T-series with a Mobility Radeon 9600 or its 128MB-equivalent FireGL T2 (I think that covers just about any T42 with an 1400x1050 SXGA+ screen or higher) will perform pretty much the same - acceptably for the most part.

There's a lot of question out there whether the X300 that ships with the T43 is a little better or a little worse than the MR9600, but either way it's roughly the same - so you won't see much benefit there even with the Sonoma goodies.

Your best bet would have to be the ultra-lux T43P, which I believe hasn't started shipping en mass yet (I may be wrong) - the FireGL V3200 card is based on the X600 - which runs at a higher core/memory clock speed than the MR9600 and as a result has moderately higher fill rates and almost twice the memory bandwidth.

That's the short answer. A better question though, is whether paying a huge premium for a $2500-3500 T43p is worth it for such a purpose?

Also, what kind of games do you anticipate playing? The T42 is just fine for games like WoW and such, but you'll be chugging along at about 30fps for Doom3. Thankfully, most modern games are between the two in terms of performance but newer ones will lean more towards the latter.

Finally, if you want a thinkpad because you like it and want to use it for purposes other than gaming, have you thought about getting a "regular" T42 for a better value, and spending the $500-1000 you'd save to get a cheap desktop that would wipe the with TP on the floor for your gaming needs?

Good luck!

[sethstorm]

Hi Rodeo,

Since you seem like you don't mind the general games limitation on the thinkpads and are more interested in comparisons within the family, here goes. Take this from a (former) hardcore PC gamer: Any thinkpad T-series with a Mobility Radeon 9600 or its 128MB-equivalent FireGL T2 (I think that covers just about any T42 with an 1400x1050 SXGA+ screen or higher) will perform pretty much the same - acceptably for the most part.

There's a lot of question out there whether the X300 that ships with the T43 is a little better or a little worse than the MR9600, but either way it's roughly the same - so you won't see much benefit there even with the Sonoma goodies.

Your best bet would have to be the ultra-lux T43P, which I believe hasn't started shipping en mass yet (I may be wrong) - the FireGL V3200 card is based on the X600 - which runs at a higher core/memory clock speed than the MR9600 and as a result has moderately higher fill rates and almost twice the memory bandwidth.

That's the short answer. A better question though, is whether paying a huge premium for a $2500-3500 T43p is worth it for such a purpose?

Well, if the build quality in the T43p is on par with the T42p, it's definitely worth $2500-3500 easily. After the T43p though, it's a bit unclear where Lenovo takes the brand .

Also, what kind of games do you anticipate playing? The T42 is just fine for games like WoW and such, but you'll be chugging along at about 30fps for Doom3. Thankfully, most modern games are between the two in terms of performance but newer ones will lean more towards the latter.

Finally, if you want a thinkpad because you like it and want to use it for purposes other than gaming, have you thought about getting a "regular" T42 for a better value, and spending the $500-1000 you'd save to get a cheap desktop that would wipe the with TP on the floor for your gaming needs?

Good luck!

So the even shorter answer would be :T42p for now, T43p if you have the time.

$500-1000 barely covers the video card these days, and the laptop already has the display.
As for the XPS, it just appears to be a Dell copy of the various generics out there(could be wrong, but that's almost the SOP for them to dress up a generic design). The T42p/T43p at least has some strict adherence to their own specifications which ensures the quality that has been worth it. Unless there is a design out there that isnt as far away from a generic as the current thinkpads, it is worth it to bite the bullet for the T42p now, T43p in the mid-term, and who knows what in the long term since Lenovo might go with the generic.

[kanate]

HP business line nc8230 and nw8240 are nice choices also for about the same price as T43/T43P and you get much better spec/graphics.

Their new design is nice, if you like thinkpad, you will like these HPs too. They look alike. HP business line notebooks are wellknown to have very good quality and very strong.

[asiafish]

I've been doing a lot of gaming with my T42p 2373-GVU (PM 1.8, 1GB ram, 14.1" SXGA, 128MB FireGL) and I am not dissappointed. Doom 3 gives acceptable quality at 1024X768, not sure of framerate, but definitely not jittery. Rome:Total War and the two Knights of the Old Republic games all play very well.

My only hickup was a total inability to get "Silent Hill 3" to launch, it would crash before I even got to the logo even after spending an hour with Konami's tech support.

I would recommend the T42p strongly if you want a ThinkPad that can also game.

[Tan Mann]

well I'm just trying to find out what Thinkpad would be the best for gaming. I just have not seen any other notebook that I would like to use.

But I'm open to sugestions. Though after having seen a Thinkpad in all its quality it is really hard to go for anything else ...

Do the IBM T42, Model # 2373M3U
P M 745, 512MB RAM, 60GB 7200rpm HDD, 14.1 SXGA+(1400x1050) TFT LCD, 64MB ATI Radeon 9600, 24x24x24x/8x CD-RW/DVD, Intel 802.11b/g wireless(MPCI), Bluetooth/Modem(CDC), 1Gb Ethernet(LOM), UltraNav, Secure Chip, Fingerprint Reader, 6c Li-Ion, WinXP Pro

See specs at:
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... ry=2373m3u

You cannot go wrong...

Cheap on EPP and CC Card sites.

Tan

[Kenn]

So the even shorter answer would be :T42p for now, T43p if you have the time.

Well, regarding this specific point: the T43p will definitely be the top of the line T-series in terms of graphics horsepower when it's released, but there's not enough difference between the MR9600 in a regular T42 and the FireGLT2 in the T42p. If you're not going for a T43p, you can save a lot of money by getting a "regular" t42 and you'll end up with the same graphics performance.

Also, the build quality of the T43p is no different from that of the T42 non-p as well, so you get no added benefit in that dept; thankfully varying build quality doesn't come into play in deciding between any of the current t-series.

As for Doom3, I remember getting about 30fps or so in 6x4 and 8x6 med-detail mode, with quite a bit of chop when monsters were on screen. It's not what I would have called smooth, but then again my standards tend to be pretty high compared to the average gamer.

[rodeo]

thanks everybody! Basically we've decided to go for the T42 and save some money for a desktop gamer OR wait for the T43p that has the FireGL V3200.

We will check the HP Compaq nc8230 and 8240 (the latter one probably being to expensive). But everybody's just in love with the TPs here

[rodeo]

Our IBM seller just offered us the T41p with a 14" SXGA screen. I don't know what model it is exactly but she said it runs at 1.7 GHz and would have the FireGL TS card. What do you think? Should we prefer it over the t42? The seller says we can get a very good price and specially this modell is her alltime favorite ... which could be salestalk but I tend to believe her ...

[stgreek]

Our IBM seller just offered us the T41p with a 14" SXGA screen. I don't know what model it is exactly but she said it runs at 1.7 GHz and would have the FireGL TS card. What do you think? Should we prefer it over the t42? The seller says we can get a very good price and specially this modell is her alltime favorite ... which could be salestalk but I tend to believe her ...

The 1.7 T41p has similar performance to that of the 2378-FVU. Its main advantage is the 7k60 drive, which however may not be of great use (apart from loading game levels and stuff).

I would also expect that the p will have a higher resale value, also because of the 3vs1 years warranty (again, compared to the FVU).

Also, although the FireGL has 128MB memory vs the 64MB of the Ati 9600 of the FVU, it runs at lower clock speed for stability. I guess it comes down to what you precisely want, but dont expect major differences.

If you tell us the price difference between the two, maybe we can help a bit more.

Stavros

[rodeo]

now the IBM rep does offer us two student models:

T41p 2373-GHG
1700 MHz, 1MB L2 Cache
60GB HD 7200
512 MB RAM (we would later raise this to 1 or 2 GB)
the Ati FireGL T2
4,7h cell (nice!)
1795 EUR incl VAT

or the

T43 2668-74G
2000 MHz, 2MB L2 Cache
80GB HD 5400 with active protection system
512 MB RAM (we would later raise this to 1 or 2 GB)
the Ati X300
3,6h cell
1995 EUR incl VAT

which one would be better for gaming?

[stgreek]

I'd take the T41p any day.

[Steve007]

I'd take the T41p any day.

What he said. The faster drive and better GFX chip is the deciding factor.

[rodeo]

Are you sure the FireGL TS 128MB is faster than the x300 64MB for non Open GL games? thanks!!

[aamsel]

It will be a little faster if you run it with standard 9600 drivers instead of the OpenGL optimized drivers. The 64MB 9600 was faster overall than the X300, so a 128MB certainly will be.

Andrew
Austin, TX

Are you sure the FireGL TS 128MB is faster than the x300 64MB for non Open GL games? thanks!!